Full Subject: Following 3I and Instrumentality, could Rei and Kaworu reimbody like anyone else?

The companion poll to my other thread. I think Rei might have been able to, but Kaworu, probably not, since he was a full-blown Angel, Tabris. Rei was just a normal girl with the soul of an Angel - more correctly, of a Source of Life.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 08:09 GMT

Since when does having the soul of one of the creators of all life make you a normal girl?

I went with Rei being able to come back and Kaworu not. Kaworu seems completely content with his impending death, just moments before Shinji kills him. I really doubt he could think of a reason to go back.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 08:17 GMT

Kaworu and Rei most likely became the apparitions that "gazed upon the existence of man." They could most likly go back in time and such. I typed up a whole in the "How I Came To Know Rei" thread. I put "other", since thei malded body of 'Rei/Lilith/Adam/Kaworu body died(fell apart), but they were not in Instrumentality like other creatures. They still had the GNR body, but still visted Shinji in Instrumentality.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 08:19 GMT

I vote "Other" - that the Rei seen at the beginning and at the end are as embodied as she can get after (in so far as that word has meaning given the apparently acausal "viewpoint of eternity" nature of the state that is Instrumentality) 3I. Kaworu/Adam is likely to be less interested in manifesting around Lilim.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 08:25 GMT

Actually, this has been bothering me for a while now aswell...

Kaworu and Rei were around during the series ending, but EoE makes it out as if they're not coming back :S

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 08:41 GMT

Mayumi, Kaworu does not appear in the series ending at all.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 08:50 GMT

^I've always wondered why that was so....

Originally posted on: 01-Mar-2005, 21:05 GMT

We see Rei for an instant in the ending, so that hints that she may be able to come back. There's also a couple of pieces of art that strike me, one was used in a magazine's anime column for a time that portrayed a slightly older Rei Shinji and Asuka, and the other was in an article on Evangelion in Newtype that had Rei and Shinji, who was holding Misato's cross. Those two images, and the fake picture of Rei Shinji and Asuka, suggest that in one form or another life will go on for everyone including Rei.

Originally posted on: 01-Mar-2005, 21:30 GMT

millinniummany3 wrote:We see Rei for an instant in the ending, so that hints that she may be able to come back. There's also a couple of pieces of art that strike me, one was used in a magazine's anime column for a time that portrayed a slightly older Rei Shinji and Asuka, and the other was in an article on Evangelion in Newtype that had Rei and Shinji, who was holding Misato's cross. Those two images, and the fake picture of Rei Shinji and Asuka, suggest that in one form or another life will go on for everyone including Rei.

You mean this picture?



Originally posted on: 01-Mar-2005, 21:41 GMT

That's the one. It was thrown about because of a new version of Eva being made. Of course that picture is really little more than a well done mock up. It would be like me creating an image of Rei in present day, dressed as the guys in Counterstrike and fighting the war on terror. While that may be cool not only would Anno not have anything to do with the idea he would probably hate it.

Originally posted on: 01-Mar-2005, 21:46 GMT

I voted neither; my reasoning being thus: neither Rei nor Kaworu are Lilim, and by that I don't just mean their souls, but rather their bodies. Kaworu is physically derived from Adam (i.e. is made of the same "Angelic" substance), and, given the fact that in #24, Rei is going around projecting a big-*** AT Field, and in #25' is regenerating her arm and levitating, it's fair to assume that she likewise is physically of an Angelic nature, in her case derived from Lilith. These two weren't made of the ordinary matter that everyone else is, thus an Anti-ATF would not cause them to revert to LCL, and I suppose it follows that they would not be able to re-embody out LCL, since that's not what they're made of in the first place.
Futhermore, note that in #26', Yui uses the LoL to send out some sort of Cosmic U-rays™ that cause the Copy Lances to dissolve, and the remaining Angelic beings (the Harpies, Rei-Lilith, and even EVA-01 herself) to petrify; tho Rei apparently gives Yui/Shogouki a reprive. This seems to indicate that Angelic beings can longer exist on Earth, at least not as physical entities.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 01:46 GMT

Has there ever been any definitive proof that there needs to be some sort of directly physical element involved in possessing the abilities that the two of them have, and that containing angelic souls wouldn't be enough to do the trick?

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 02:39 GMT

Shin-seiki: About the "petrification"... Yeah, this apparently does happen to Sho, too -- without any ill effects to Yui inside -- but Rei doesn't seem responsible for the de-petrification... Here is the original script for the "Hair Eva" cut:

EVA-01 comes into the frame.
The helmet comes off; hair is swaying.
(Her color returns to purple.)

Of course, it's a little different in the final, but it seems to imply that Yui is the one who de-petrifies herself, once she is safely away from Earth...

Shin-seiki wrote:These two weren't made of the ordinary matter that everyone else is

I suppose Rei 3 would be more "pure Lilith matter" than her predecessor, having had less time to replace her atoms with those from ramen.

Yui uses the LoL to send out some sort of Cosmic U-rays™

What does the "U" stand for?

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:Has there ever been any definitive proof that there needs to be some sort of directly physical element involved in possessing the abilities that the two of them have, and that containing angelic souls wouldn't be enough to do the trick?

The abilities certainly aren't soul-based, as the Evas demonstrate.

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 04:32 GMT

Reichu wrote:Shin-seiki[/b]: About the "petrification"... Yeah, this apparently does happen to Sho, too -- without any ill effects to Yui inside -- but Rei doesn't seem responsible for the de-petrification... Here is the original script for the "Hair Eva" cut:

EVA-01 comes into the frame.
The helmet comes off; hair is swaying.
(Her color returns to purple.)

Of course, it's a little different in the final, but it seems to imply that Yui is the one who de-petrifies herself, once she is safely away from Earth...

Hmmm... Everytime you quote one of these little nuggets from the script comments, I have to go back and revise my thinking

I suppose Rei 3 would be more "pure Lilith matter" than her predecessor, having had less time to replace her atoms with those from ramen.

Jeeze... Talk about opening a whole 'nother can of worms! Now you've got me thinking about the interaction of "Angelic" and ordinary matter. Rei doesn't have an S^2, so I suppose the energy that allows her to live has to come from somewhere...

What does the "U" stand for?

Sorry, that was an in-joke reference to the Bad Movie classic "Robot Monster", that I'm sure thewayniac would get, tho I don't know about anyone else here... (The guy in the linked review seems to think that they're "Cosmic Q Rays" tho)

The abilities certainly aren't soul-based, as the Evas demonstrate.

Plus, Kaworu's explanation for why he can control EVA-02 seems to rely on the fact that both he and Eva are of the same body (i.e. "born of Adam"), and then we see that he can project an AT Field, just like an Angel or Eva...

Originally posted on: 02-Mar-2005, 10:52 GMT

Caught with Alice, Ro-Man tries to explain things to the boss:

Ro-Man: “There is one thing you do not understand, Great Guidance.”

Great One, incredulous: “You reject the Plan?”

Ro-Man: “I wish to make an estimate of my own.”

Great One: “To think for yourself is to be like the Hu-Man!” [If no one immediately connected with this film, anyway.]

Ro-Man, entering Shakespearean Soliloquy mode: “Yes! To be like the Hu-Man! To laugh, feel, want! Why are these things not in the Plan?”

Great One: “You are an extension of the Ro-Men, and a Ro-Man you will remain. Now I set you into motion. One, destroy the girl. Two, destroy the family. Fail, and I will destroy you!”
The Great One signs off, leaving Ro-Man to ponder his fate.

Ro-Man: “I cannot, yet I must. How do you calculate that?! At what point on the graph do ‘must' and ‘cannot' meet? Yet I must! But I cannot.”

Some of the greatest dialog ever written.

Originally posted on: 03-Mar-2005, 08:37 GMT

Bumped because it's an important subject & because I quoted Robot Monster.

Originally posted on: 06-Apr-2006, 03:11 GMT

Current take on Kaworu: All indications are that Adam's preference is for the identity she had chosen -- that of a Seed of Life -- and, after Kaworu's death, she assumed vis appearance during the events of 3I/HIP to interact with Lilim. She won't be reembodying on Earth, for obvious reasons*: Continuing to live would apparently "result in the destruction of humanity", and "Only one life form will be chosen to survive the time of destruction and be given a future". However, as I've basically intimated over here, this is not necessarily the end for Adam -- Yui might be taking her soul to "a better place".

<insert Wayne's objections>

* Well, also, LBLs (Lilith-based lifeforms) couldn't reembody in Antarctica's "Adam-based ecosystem", so I'd hazard to guess that those on the "other side" wouldn't be able to make any use of LCL. (Unless there's some clause allowing for such a thing under certain circumstances.) Adam and the kids would, apparently, need the assistance of an Adam-based body to achieve physical form once again...

Originally posted on: 06-Apr-2006, 14:52 GMT

(The following is a pretty baseless theory, so don't think too hard about it)
Adam and Lilith both have the purpose of furthering humanity. During 3I, they merged to form the Giant Naked Rei, and during 3I Yui left Earth to continue what they started. This sort of "passing of the torch" (illustrated by the blue flame over EVA-01, perhaps?) essencially means that Adam's and Lilith's jobs are essencially complete, they've served their purpose, and while Earth is a mess at the moment, it's probably going to be all right, as far as they're concerned. Now, if I were a being like that, billions of years old, with one basic purpose, completed and passed to a new generation, what would I do? Given the choice, it seems like that'd be as good a time as any... to die. So while souls in NGE seem to be able to live on beyond physical death, my theory is that as the GNR crumbles to the ground, Lilith and Adam are dying for good, forever, and they don't mind.
(Not a whole lot to back it up, and if somebody else proves otherwise, I'll probably abandon it, but I think it's plausible, at least. Being immortal is boring and unpleasant, by all accounts, so I think it makes some sense that they'd end it now that they're done.)

Originally posted on: 06-Apr-2006, 16:37 GMT

LuigiHann wrote:This sort of "passing of the torch" (illustrated by the blue flame over EVA-01, perhaps?)

Cute. I hadn't thought of the "flaming hair" quite like that. It appears to be the consummation of other visual/thematic motifs, too, although the first time I posted that idea I don't think anybody followed.

essencially means that Adam's and Lilith's jobs are essencially complete, they've served their purpose

Well, technically, Adam kind of failed. Yeah, she's got an heiress of sorts, but she lost the planet that was supposed to be hers and her natural children were all butchered. One interesting thing to think about is the outcome of the Duel: Lilith used the Spear to put Adam into suspended animation, rather than kill her. Makes one wonder what the intention behind that was.

Originally posted on: 06-Apr-2006, 17:02 GMT