Shin-seiki wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but if the negative words of the others directed at Misato ("Impure! Pathetic! Disgusting *****!") are not necessarily related to the #23 flashback, then WHY is the #23 scene referenced in this sequence at all?!

To give the Shinji that exists in Misato's mind the same fair share of Misato-rejection as all the others get to indulge in. Off the top of my head, I can't recall a better sequence to re-use for the purpose.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:41 GMT

Mr. Tines wrote:To give the Shinji that exists in Misato's mind the same fair share of Misato-rejection as all the others get to indulge in. Off the top of my head, I can't recall a better sequence to re-use for the purpose.

I think it's telling that it is the other female characters that are denouncing Misato here; if the other males in the cast were afforded the opportunity to comment on Shinji turning down an opportunity to get in Misato's pants they would be like "Wuss!", "Loser!" and so on (Toji would probably punch out Shinji again, just on general principal). The #23 scene, I think, is certainly functioning as a flashback here, i..e. Shinji's words are are simply being remembered, not directed at Misato from 'within' the current Instrumentality. There are other occasions where a real-life scene is referenced in Instrumentality, then commented on by the characters; the Misato/Kaji boink-athon comes to mind, as well as the Kissing Scene from #15, which starts out as an apparent flashback ("You wanna kiss?"), then morphs into an occasion for Asuka to let Shinji know how she really feels about what happened then from her current perspective:
"You don't understand anything! Just stay away from me!"
"I-I do understand..."
"No you don't, you IDIOT!!!" [smack!]
My point is that it is consistent with the narrative devices that Anno utilizes in other Instrumentality scenes that the #23 scene is there as a 'pure' flashback...

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 23:19 GMT

Shin-seiki wrote:I think it's telling that it is the other female characters that are denouncing Misato here; if the other males in the cast were afforded the opportunity to comment on Shinji turning down an opportunity to get in Misato's pants they would be like "Wuss!", "Loser!" and so on

Of course not everyone wants to ride the village bicycle - but Ikari-kun is the most obvious of them.

Shin-seiki wrote:My point is that it is consistent with the narrative devices that Anno utilizes in other Instrumentality scenes that the #23 scene is there as a 'pure' flashback...

Trouble with 25/26 is telling the flashback from the recycling.

Stepping back "out of the system" as it were, I feel that it strengthens the impact of the "rest when you get back" scene from 25' if in 23 she was being - however clumsily - maternal, even with the ulterior motive of wanting to be the child. [Of course given that she too has "father" issues, her wanting to be in the child role could be considered leading by implication].

With the benefit of hindsight one could always say that 25 "really" refers to the events of 25'.

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 17:31 GMT

Mr. Tines wrote:Stepping back "out of the system" as it were, I feel that it strengthens the impact of the "rest when you get back" scene from 25' if in 23 she was being - however clumsily - maternal, even with the ulterior motive of wanting to be the child. [Of course given that she too has "father" issues, her wanting to be in the child role could be considered leading by implication].

The reason Misato takes Shinji in in the first place is to "assuage her own loneliness" (as Scott put it). Does part of her want to be a maternal figure to him? Yes. Does part of her want to get into his pants? YES! Humans are complex, conflicting, and messed-up animals, so I see absolutely no reason why Misato can't have it "both ways".

Originally posted on: 16-Nov-2004, 08:05 GMT

Reichu wrote:The reason Misato takes Shinji in in the first place is to "assuage her own loneliness" (as Scott put it). Does part of her want to be a maternal figure to him? Yes. Does part of her want to get into his pants? YES! Humans are complex, conflicting, and messed-up animals, so I see absolutely no reason why Misato can't have it "both ways".

I agree with you on this Reichu. That was part of Shinji's fear of Misato: he recognized the combination of feelings she had for him.

Originally posted on: 16-Nov-2004, 18:38 GMT

Bumped so that the newbies wouldn't have to use the elusive Search function. And so that the newer folk can have a proper outlet for their "Shinji is queer" convictions.

Originally posted on: 22-Jul-2005, 05:39 GMT

Reichu wrote:Bumped so that the newbies wouldn't have to use the elusive Search function. And so that the newer folk can have a proper outlet for their "Shinji is queer" convictions.

Le Sigh! Didja have to? This thread is a source of mild embarrassment for me, you know.

Originally posted on: 22-Jul-2005, 05:42 GMT

Soluzar wrote:Le Sigh! Didja have to? This thread is a source of mild embarrassment for me, you know.

We were all newbies at one point Soluzar. Many of my initial theories were MUCH more embarrassing than this one.

Originally posted on: 22-Jul-2005, 13:17 GMT

Soluzar wrote:Le Sigh!This thread is a source of mild embarrassment for me, you know.

Heh - I still think ep#23 was a premature detonation of the BIB.

Originally posted on: 22-Jul-2005, 18:53 GMT