Shinji's Sexuality

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Ark wrote:I still can't believe Misato wanted to ride Shinji and Pen2.
Image See post #153 above; she wasn't serious about Pen-Pen! Now, Shinji, on the other hand... Image

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:07 GMT

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Postby Ark [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Shin-seiki wrote:See post #153 above; she wasn't serious about Pen-Pen! Image Now, Shinji, on the other hand... Image


Frankly I think Pen Pen would have been the better choice.

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:31 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Magami No ER wrote:I do. Kaworu was a loving friend.....done

I had to quote myself. Image I forgot about this offical pic Image And there are more similar. Gainax, why are you so cruel to Shinji and those who enjoy Evangelion and FLCL?

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:38 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Reichu wrote:Mr Tines, are you ignoring me? Image


And there was me thinking that if I responded to any more of your posts, it would look like I was stalking you, rather than treating each post on its own merits, Rei-chan.

Besides, you so often throw out references to extended threads that need at least some extended attention - and often point to other threads recursively - that a measured response takes time. And given that you also stated

Reichu wrote:I feel very much the same way whenever Mr. Tines makes a post. Hell, even if I understand all of the individual words, I still feel like I'm translating from another language.


I'm sure you would rather I gave measured responses rather than barely sketching out any argument.


Reichu wrote:If Misato did not have "impure" intentions, then please explain this scene.


I think it depends where mentally you put the punctuation into the sequence - before or after the Shinji cut : like the opposite meanings that can be applied to the string "Woman without her man is nothing" by different choices in punctuation. I'd parsed this as

Character (seated unmoving on folding chair): Self-evaluation (or self-justification)
Chorus (using as much recycled footage as possible): Reponse

and quite honestly hadn't considered parsing it in any other fashion.

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:40 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Mr. Tines wrote:I think it depends where mentally you put the punctuation into the sequence - before or after the Shinji cut : like the opposite meanings that can be applied to the string "Woman without her man is nothing" by different choices in punctuation. I'd parsed this as

Character (seated unmoving on folding chair): Self-evaluation (or self-justification)
Chorus (using as much recycled footage as possible): Reponse

and quite honestly hadn't considered parsing it in any other fashion.
I should mention that the part with Misato in the folding chair, going on about wanting to digrace herself, is not contiguous with the other part, which does unfold in the sequence shown (#23 flashback, Misato's expression of self-hatred, and Maya/Ritsuko/Asuka's reaction of disgust).

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:50 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

... Why do you all post so much while I'm sleeping Image ?

It makes it so hard to respond.

Mr. Tines wrote:Besides, you so often throw out references to extended threads that need at least some extended attention - and often point to other threads recursively - that a measured response takes time. And given that you also stated

YES! Image Exactly (but it's not just you Reichu — it's everybody).

"To understand my point, you must read this post 'x'"
Post 'x': "To understand this point, you must read 'y' and 'z'"
Reader: "... oh ... alright."
Post 'y': "To understand this point, refer to post 'q'."
Reader: "... DAMMIT!"

And so on and so forth.

Shin-seiki wrote:See post #153 above; she wasn't serious about Pen-Pen! Now, Shinji, on the other hand...

So it's sex with Shinji, but just petting and no tongue with Pen^2 ... riight.
Again, as I've stated before when this evidence has come up, this so-called retort against it is unreasonable and simply ignoring the facts.

Reichu wrote:If Misato did not have "impure" intentions, then please explain this scene

I'll review the scene tonight to see if I can come up with a proper response.

EDIT: As overwhelmingly skeptical as I am, the fact that you keep on taunting us with this massive revelation of yours is making me somewhat masochistically curious. (I'm sure that's what you wanted, right?)

Image Now I'm worried my theory's gonna be crap and I'm gonna be chased outta here with pitchforks and torches.
Then again, maybe that's just because I feel it really isn't a massive revelation.
Beyond that, I feel that you may not be satisfied with the "evidence" Reichu, since as usual, I defend much of my theory through progressive logic (such as is the case with the "S^1" organ theory and the "No ATF does not equal LCL" theory [which {after finding further evidence on your own — granted} you seem to be in agreement on now]).
But I will do my best to satisfy all blood lusts in regards to that topic, for I feel it is essential Image .

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:52 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Shin-seiki wrote:I should mention that the part with Misato in the folding chair, going on about wanting to digrace herself, is not contiguous with the other part, which does unfold in the sequence shown (#23 flashback, Misato's expression of self-hatred, and Maya/Ritsuko/Asuka's reaction of disgust).

See ... that helps. I know you disagree, but that's what I always took from the scene in 25 — that Shinji is just showing his disgust for Misato. I'll watch the scene again (like I said), but that helps me put my thoughts into perspective.

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 08:55 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Here's another one : Image (I'm enjoying this, but I still truely believe he's straight.)

Edit:This is the original image used on VHS and Laser Disc#8

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 21:06 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Shin-seiki wrote:I should mention that the part with Misato in the folding chair, going on about wanting to digrace herself, is not contiguous with the other part, which does unfold in the sequence shown (#23 flashback, Misato's expression of self-hatred, and Maya/Ritsuko/Asuka's reaction of disgust).


No wonder I had never thought to group the flashback with the desire for degradation - I confess not to have committed the entire Intrumentality sequence to memory Image so hadn't spotted the discontinuity.

I'm with Knives on this one : it's everybody detesting Misato (herself included) time.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 21:09 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:39 am

Mr. Tines wrote:No wonder I had never thought to group the flashback with the desire for degradation - I confess not to have committed the entire Intrumentality sequence to memory Image so hadn't spotted the discontinuity.

I'm with Knives on this one : it's everybody detesting Misato (herself included) time.
I find it little hard to comprehend how A (Misato's overtures to Shinji in #23) and B (the other female characters telling her that she's a disgusting *****) are immediately juxtaposed, so that just about anyone would conclude that B is a reaction to A (in Instrumentality, everyone's secrets are revealed, note how in #26', Asuka becomes aware of Shinji's faptastical behavior while she was in a coma in #25'), yet, for some reason, you persist in denying the patently obvious logical progression (A > B)

BTW, I mentioned this in one of the other threads on this topic, but I shall reiterate: The Newtype Filmbook for #23 states flat out that Misato was offering her body to Shinji in that scene...

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 21:18 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Knives wrote:So it's sex with Shinji, but just petting and no tongue with Pen^2 ... riight.


For what it's worth, penguins mate in a pseudo-missionary position, whereas other birds do it "doggy style" (well, sort of... the male birds of most species don't have penises).

... Nevermind.

Again, as I've stated before when this evidence has come up, this so-called retort against it is unreasonable and simply ignoring the facts.


So you're saying she really DID want to boink Pen^2?

:unsure: Now I'm worried my theory's gonna be crap and I'm gonna be chased outta here with pitchforks and torches.


I'm just skeptical that you've managed to come up with something that fits better than what we have now. Trust me, we've seen plenty of folks waltz in here intent on slaughtering the Rei-Lilith Kaworu-Adam setup, as you seem to be. Why so many are fond of doing this is quite beyond me. (If there was something flagrantly wrong with what we've been batting around, I should have gotten at least a whiff of it by now.) They're evidently operating on a logic so shrouded in mystery we cannot hope to approach their level of thinking! :P There are folks like RahOtaku and CuteAnimeGirl, who were so absolutely obtuse as to render themselves COMPLETELY impossible to debate with, and then there was our old friend Fuzzy Chickens, who seems to be more like your type of bloke, although, I hesitate to say, you seem marginally more reasonable... ;)

I remember a debate with AchtungAffen a while back where he was, similarly, refusing to embrace the "Lilith" bit, but eventually I threw a quote at him that he couldn't dodge. :D Wish I knew where that debate went.

I defend much of my theory through progressive logic (such as is the case with the "S^1" organ theory and the "No ATF does not equal LCL" theory [which {after finding further evidence on your own — granted} you seem to be in agreement on now]).


With the former, I do think that SOMEhow the power from the umbilical cable both (A) powers the electrical impulses sent out from the artificial section of the spinal cord, and (B), the more mysterious one, is somehow utilized by the body to power its cells in place of metabolically-derived energy. You simply take things a bit further and attach a name to the "SOMEhow". :P

But I will do my best to satisfy all blood lusts in regards to that topic, for I feel it is essential :D .


Yes, just get it over with.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 21:23 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Knives wrote:... Why do you all post so much while I'm sleeping ?

It makes it so hard to respond.


It's a disease.

Magami, you should use an image link instead of embedding when the picture is that big. Forum courtesy, and such. Also, why does it look like it was scanned from a printout?

Pics being "official" doesn't mean too much... Remember, a lot of them are illustrations for the fans, which means you get stuff like this, and this, and this. Oh, there are plenty more examples, but here's just the Shinji-Kaworu pics I have in my "official group cel art" folder:

http://www.avians.net/rkc/14daughters/misc/kaworu,shinij_animage-7'96_takeshi-honda.jpg
http://www.avians.net/rkc/14daughters/misc/kaworu,shinji_animage-6'96_masayuki.jpg
http://www.avians.net/rkc/14daughte...rce-unknown.jpg
http://www.avians.net/rkc/14daughters/misc/Shinji,kaworu,Asuka,Rei,touji_game-quest-11'97_shoushi-saiki.jpg
http://www.avians.net/rkc/14daughters/misc/Shinji,kaworu_film-book-vol9_tadashi-hiramatsu_(newtype100pc).jpg

And a better version of the one you posted above.

And the one you posted before that.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 21:37 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Reichu wrote:So you're saying she really DID want to boink Pen^2?

Well ... You can draw two conclusions: either she wanted to boink Pen^2 or she didn't want to boink Shinji.
You can't have it both ways.
"Why?" ... Because you just can't darn it Image_ !

Reichu wrote:I'm just skeptical that you've managed to come up with something that fits better than what we have now . . . (If there was something flagrantly wrong with what we've been batting around, I should have gotten at least a whiff of it by now.)

... There are little things ... like EVA-00 and her soul. ... and a lot of poking holes in the defense of the Rei-Lilith theory ... I do that a lot I think Image poke holes in people's theories that is Image . But not aimlessly ... with great focus and purpose, not simply for the sake of causing a ruccuss.

Reichu wrote:then there was our old friend Fuzzy Chickens, who seems to be more like your type of bloke, although, I hesitate to say, you seem marginally more reasonable...

Image Aw ... thanks! Image ... wait a minute ... marginally?
How big are these margins we're talkin' about?

Reichu wrote:You simply take things a bit further and attach a name to the "SOMEhow".

Well at least some of what I've said is coming to fruition — it at least shows I'm not completely insane, so therefore you have* to consider what I have to say (*friendly sarcasm disclaimer). If I was insane, you could just ignore me all together.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 21:56 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Shin-seiki wrote:I find it little hard to comprehend how A (Misato's overtures to Shinji in #23) and B (the other female characters telling her that she's a disgusting *****) are immediately juxtaposed, so that just about anyone would conclude that B is a reaction to A, yet, for some reason, you persist in denying the patently obvious logical progression (A > B)


Extra-textual material (as cited below) aside, it still comes back to being a chunking issue - is there or is there not a logical punctutation between Shinji's rejection of Misato and all the others.

We see enough other reasons for her most important colleagues to level such accusations, saying out plain what is said in a more circumspect manner in other earlier sequences (Ritsuko vis-a-vis the week in bed with Kaji, Misato herself in ep 12, the denoument of the elevator scene in ep 11) that it is less than obvious that these are supposed to be reactions to the Shinji cut rather than being other parallel responses of the various characters to Misato in general, starting with Shinji as he's the lead character. After all, it's not as if you'd expect him to make the same sort of declamatory reaction as the others do.

Shin-seiki wrote:BTW, I mentioned this in one of the other threads on this topic, but I shall reiterate: The Newtype Filmbook for #23 states flat out that Misato was offering her body to Shinji in that scene...


Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:00 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

I'ved had that picture for a long time,as a printout. I couldn't remember which site I'd got that off of(I was being rushed off the computer)so I just scaned it. I'm sorry I didn't link it...I'm such a mess with the proofreading and just plain thinking today. I know they're official, but I also know that it's not true.
Edit: Fixed

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:06 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Mr. Tines wrote:Extra-textual material (as cited below) aside, it still comes back to being a chunking issue - is there or is there not a logical punctutation between Shinji's rejection of Misato and all the others.

We see enough other reasons for her most important colleagues to level such accusations, saying out plain what is said in a more circumspect manner in other earlier sequences (Ritsuko vis-a-vis the week in bed with Kaji, Misato herself in ep 12, the denoument of the elevator scene in ep 11) that it is less than obvious that these are supposed to be reactions to the Shinji cut rather than being other parallel responses of the various characters to Misato in general, starting with Shinji as he's the lead character. After all, it's not as if you'd expect him to make the same sort of declamatory reaction as the others do.

Couldn't have said it better, and I'll probably reiterate it tonight after reviewing the scene.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:11 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Mr. Tines wrote:Extra-textual material (as cited below) aside, it still comes back to being a chunking issue - is there or is there not a logical punctutation between Shinji's rejection of Misato and all the others.

We see enough other reasons for her most important colleagues to level such accusations, saying out plain what is said in a more circumspect manner in other earlier sequences (Ritsuko vis-a-vis the week in bed with Kaji, Misato herself in ep 12, the denoument of the elevator scene in ep 11) that it is less than obvious that these are supposed to be reactions to the Shinji cut rather than being other parallel responses of the various characters to Misato in general, starting with Shinji as he's the lead character. After all, it's not as if you'd expect him to make the same sort of declamatory reaction as the others do.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the negative words of the others directed at Misato ("Impure! Pathetic! Disgusting *****!") are not necessarily related to the #23 flashback, then WHY is the #23 scene referenced in this sequence at all?! If Ritsuko and the others aren't reacting to it, the #23 flashback is just hanging there with no meaningful connection to anything else in that scene!

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:12 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Shin-seiki wrote:Maybe I'm missing something, but if the negative words of the others directed at Misato ("Impure! Pathetic! Disgusting *****!") are not necessarily related to the #23 flashback, then WHY is the #23 scene referenced in this sequence at all?! If Ritsuko and the others aren't reacting to it, the #23 flashback is just hanging there with no relevance to anything else in that scene!

... First of all, as I recall, it's not a flashback.
That's your first mistake.
Different dialogue takes place between them.
I very well could be wrong, but I'm 90% certain of this.
... Again, I suppose I'll verify this once I review it tonight.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:15 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Knives wrote:... First of all, as I recall, it's not a flashback.
That's your first mistake.
Different dialogue takes place between them.
I very well could be wrong, but I'm 90% certain of this.
... Again, I suppose I'll verify this once I review it tonight.
BZZT! Wrong! There is no "dialog"; Misato's line is skipped, and Shinji just says what he says in the original...

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:25 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:40 am

Shin-seiki wrote:BZZT! Wrong! There is no "dialog"; Misato's line is skipped, and Shinji just says what he says in the original...

I love that you're so excited Image .

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2004, 22:31 GMT


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