Olin of Xephon wrote:Bottom Line: (again) Evangelion wasn't original, it was just the first Dark, philosophical mecha anime that caught peoples' attention. When Rahxephon stepped into the lime light, said people reviled it as a rip off.

A more accurate way to say it would be that Eva was the first dark philosophical mecha anime that immediately caught people's attention to such an extent that it was arguably among the most popular animes in Japan at the time. Ideon, Zeta Gundam, etc... all caught people's attention. They didn't reach the heights of popularity that Eva did, but they certainly caught people's attention (as I mentioned earlier, Ideon is top 10 best anime ever from some...)

So can we stop these Rahxephon vs. Evangelion threads at some point in the near future?

As long as the "RahXephon is a ripoff of Eva" people stop. Remember, that side of the argument started it by creating a lame site and advertising it here. (then running away when people dared to disagree with him)

Maybe the way they made the EVA more alive(human). I mean there were mecha that were alive before EVA like the Ideon & Zoids but not human. There were also bio-machines like Aura Battler's & even Zoids(Japanese toyline & UK comics only, Chaotic Cenmtury manga/anime diddn't start until in the late 90's).

Yep. There had been organic mecha before, like Dunbine, but I'm not aware of an anime pre-Eva that literally had living creatures with metal bindings wrapped around them. Thats one point in Eva that I'm not aware of an earlier source. That said, this is one of the areas in Eva that rarely if ever appears in post Eva stuff. I've never seen a post Eva anime that features this.

the 1st mecha i actually saw ever was Escaflowne, as i wasnt really and still am not a hardcore mecha Fan yet. i did actually see EVA 1st. but after watching Rah i went back to my vault and watched eva again and still wasnt convinced that it was different. sure there are GENERIC elements in every mecha anime, but to me some of the evidence is a lil too convenient to deny.

Consider this then.

Evangelion was heavily influenced by earlier made mecha shows, mostly from Sunrise.

Bones, who created RahXephon was made up mostly of former Sunrise employees.

Perhaps the creators of RahXephon, who just happened to work for the company that influenced Eva, were either influenced by their own stuff or stuff their colleagues worked on?

The fact is, RahXephon owes most of its influence to Brave Raideen, not Eva. A show that just happened to have been made by Sunrise, were much of Bones used to work.

Originally posted on: 08.09.2006, 05:44 PM

Levon wrote:There were other dark anime before EVA, just not with an apocalyptic ending from what I know. Zeta Gundam & Votoms are dark sci-fi anime. Zeta Gundam doesn't have an apocalyptic ending where the universe is destroyed or anything but it does have a very dark Kill Em' All Tomino ending. As well as in his Aura Battler Dunbine. Much like how the characters of EVA would die at the end, however there were much more main characters dieing in Tomino's endings. He develops a large cast of characters on all sides of the war, rather than just a small group like we see in EVA.

So the only original mecha show is the first mecha show? With that logic Star Wars is a ripoff of Forbidden Planet. I'm not claiming Eva is 100% authentic, however the way it spun it's story resonated with the public. It was at the right place at the right time.

Impossible for Ideon to have a sequel, just like its impossible for EVA to have a sequel.

Can we say Gall Force? Anything is possible in anime.

Ideon was big enough for the 2 movies to be made.

One of which was a 32-episode recap of the TV series. I don't consider that or Evangelion: Deah and Rebirth movies, they're recap episodes.

http://animenewsnetwork.com/encyclop...me.php?id=2726
Ideon: Be Invoked
Plot Summary: The epic conclusion to the Ideon saga, featuring what was meant to be the final 5 episodes of the TV series. The Solo Ship and its crew continue their intense battle with the Buff Clan leading to a final battle that will determine the fate of all life in the universe.

Sound familiar? *cough*End of Evangelion*cough*

Except for one important caveat. Ideon was cancelled before it's conclusion, they HAD an ending. Evangelion was planned poorly and ran out of episodes and only had two left to try to complete everyting, and that resulted in an incomplete ending. You never knew what the ending to Ideon was cause they cancelled it due to poor ratings.

http://animenewsnetwork.com/encyclop...me.php?id=2694
Ideon: A Contact
Plot Summary: A movie recap of the Space Runaway Ideon TV Series

Sound familiar? *cough*Death & Rebirth*cough*

Better that then tryijng to recap a 26-episode series, plus an original story in 90 minutes like X, Escaflowne, and Blue Gender did. They all sucked because of it.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 12:15 AM

Brill wrote:So the only original mecha show is the first mecha show? With that logic Star Wars is a ripoff of Forbidden Planet.

Nah, that would mean that Star Wars was a ripoff of Shakespeare's The Tempest, which doesn't work. Star Wars is more a ripoff of Joseph Campbell's research.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 12:28 AM

Quiddity wrote:Consider this then.

Evangelion was heavily influenced by earlier made mecha shows, mostly from Sunrise.

Bones, who created RahXephon was made up mostly of former Sunrise employees.

Perhaps the creators of RahXephon, who just happened to work for the company that influenced Eva, were either influenced by their own stuff or stuff their colleagues worked on?

The fact is, RahXephon owes most of its influence to Brave Raideen, not Eva. A show that just happened to have been made by Sunrise, were much of Bones used to work.

I've used this point before and it's funny how noone can answer it properly. Look at what both Anno and Izubuchi (Hey I bet if something in Eva was called Buchi he would be accused of ripping that of!) have done.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...ple.php?id=141
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...ople.php?id=15

They both worked with Tomino and Kawamori as well as many other mecha series before they directed their own. Of course elements from what they worked on and stuff their coworkers have done were prevelent in their shows.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 01:47 AM

Brill wrote:Better that then tryijng to recap a 26-episode series, plus an original story in 90 minutes like X, Escaflowne, and Blue Gender did. They all sucked because of it.

Didn't the X movie come out before the series, though?

I'm just splitting hairs now XD

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 01:59 AM

It came out years before and it did something worse than recapping a 26 ep series. It tryed to fit volumes.... AND VOLUMES of manga into 90 mins.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 02:04 AM

Except for one important caveat. Ideon was cancelled before it's conclusion, they HAD an ending. Evangelion was planned poorly and ran out of episodes and only had two left to try to complete everyting, and that resulted in an incomplete ending. You never knew what the ending to Ideon was cause they cancelled it due to poor ratings.

Of course you know what the ending to Ideon was because it was in Be Invoked.

Eva: Poor ending because of censorship and budget issues. Anno gets chance to do original ending, so he puts out recap movie, then movie featuring what was supposed to be the original ending.

Ideon: Poor ending because of cancellation. Tomino gets chance to do original ending, so he puts out recap movie, then movie featuring what was supposed to be the original ending.

Wow, sounds familiar to me. Yet EvaXephon's site claims that the Rah movie (which was just one movie, and the show had its originally planned ending unlike Eva & Ideon) was a ripoff of Eva? LoL!

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 06:40 AM

Really, you saw the unaired episodes of Ideon? How were they to the movie? The ending was scrapped! So now any movie that recaps any part of it broadcast series can thank Ideon too? I don't think so.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 08:43 AM

RahXephon movie copied Escaflowne more than anything, since it was a brand new retelling of the series with Maya actually being Ayato's biological mother in the movie unlike the series. Instead of brand new scenes they tried to get by with scenes from the series along with some new animations.

Intriging idea though they didn't really pull of it off imo.

Of course Studio Bones are made of ex-sunrise members... and oh yeah they animated the Escaflowne movie.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 09:07 AM

Gilgamesh owns them both! Mwahahaha!

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 02:26 PM

Gilgamesh is nothing like Evangelion besides the ending is similar in some ways....

Brill wrote:So now any movie that recaps any part of it broadcast series can thank Ideon too? I don't think so.

Who ever said that?

Brill wrote:So the only original mecha show is the first mecha show? With that logic Star Wars is a ripoff of Forbidden Planet.

Who ever said that?

I never said that so I don't know why you quoted me.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 02:28 PM

Brill wrote:Really, you saw the unaired episodes of Ideon? How were they to the movie? The ending was scrapped! So now any movie that recaps any part of it broadcast series can thank Ideon too? I don't think so.

I own the 'Complete Ideon Archives' which include the original storyboards for episodes 40-43 of Ideon, which are amazingly enough, just like what we see in Be Invoked.

No one ever said recap movies owe Ideon. But Eva fanatics claim that shows like RahXephon that recap part of the series stole it from Eva!

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 05:55 PM

Quiddity wrote:I own the 'Complete Ideon Archives' which include the original storyboards for episodes 40-43 of Ideon

I hate you Quiddity.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 06:28 PM

Quiddity wrote:No one ever said recap movies owe Ideon. But Eva fanatics claim that shows like RahXephon that recap part of the series stole it from Eva!

People saying that also prove they haven't watched the RahXephon Movie, it's an alternate retelling like the Escaflowne Movie.

Monkey see monkey do describes most of these Eva fanatics.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 06:40 PM

Quiddity wrote:No one ever said recap movies owe Ideon. But Eva fanatics claim that shows like RahXephon that recap part of the series stole it from Eva!

Well they may but I certainly do not. They are guilty of other transgressions though.

Originally posted on: 08.10.2006, 08:10 PM