Is RahXephon a copy of Evangelion?

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RoCkeR_00000 [ANF]
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Postby RoCkeR_00000 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:53 pm

EvaXephon wrote:Simply put:

No.

I refuse to do that.

That would take far too much time and effort. You people aren't worth it.

You're all rude, mean, condescending, insulting, and immature.

None of you were worth dealing with in the first place, yet I continually tried to speak to you as if you were civilized human beings. And you just kept on acting like children.



Based on the 8 pages so far, it's obviously impossible for you to oblige to the debate format I'd like - a civil one. None of you are capable of displaying maturity, and you've all proven this over the last 8 pages.

I'm through here. It's not worth a second of my time. No one here acts like an adult. Everyone here is some petty jerk who makes themself feel good by ganging up on someone and flinging personal insults. I advise you all to grow up. I don't think any of you will get far in life with your current attitudes and behavior.

This place is not worth another keystroke, and I shall illustrate that by abruptly ending this post and leaving.

Good, you have been proven wrong on numerous fronts and you won't even A. Accept the fact that your wrong or
B. Prove any of the members of the forum wrong, with actual proven statements.

Crying YOUR BEING MEAN or throwing out words like rude or immature isn't going to change the fact that you have been wrong on a couple of said subjects.

You are the one being immature by not trying, you just say we are being kids, giving up and leaving is sure getting your point across.


Oh and a side note: EvaXephon can't even hold a candle to Shinji_Ikari

Originally posted on: 07.22.2006, 08:18 PM

goddessofanime [ANF]
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Postby goddessofanime [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

While there's no doubt that Evangelion inspired a lot of the mech anime that's out there today...the only anime that I've seen that I instantly thought rip off was Pilot Candidate.

Tell me that one character didn't come from Ayanami.

Originally posted on: 07.22.2006, 08:25 PM

soulreaper [ANF]
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Postby soulreaper [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

VSh wrote:I should admit that level of argumentation of most people in this thread is too low. Undoubtedly EvaXephon looked better. Even intensity of posts shows that there is something here. Just watch one show after another. RX ripped off Eva just little bit below the level of plagiarism and it wasn't done well. Of course the show would be only better without this. I think creators simply wanted to take a lift on Eva's popularity.

Evangelion may be popular, but it is NOT the end-all be-all, original and ground-breaking show that people say it is. And clearly a large portion of its fans cannot get this through their heads. Most of the people who say the RahXephon ripped off it are the ones that don't like it. Your post does nothing to raise the level of argumentation. It's just another one of those "I don't like RahXephon, and Evangelion pwns it. Obviously RahXephon's ideas were taken from Evangelion" posts that we see too much of these days.

Besides, EvaXephon definitely could have approached this differently. If he only wanted crazed Eva fanboys to reply, he should have said so. Instead, he asked for people to debate. He started one, we responded, and he chickened out.

Originally posted on: 07.22.2006, 10:25 PM

Holy Knight [ANF]
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Postby Holy Knight [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

The problem with the presented "evidence" is that it's too loose. You can associate it anyway you want and you can find a similarity. Basic plot points are sometimes too general to not plagiarise at all and often will recur from anime to anime. What you need is something so specific to Eva that it is impossible for it to have been original in itself. Otherwise, the presented evidence is bunk, for fault of generalisation.

Originally posted on: 07.22.2006, 10:50 PM

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Postby senseinobaka [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

soulreaper wrote:Evangelion may be popular, but it is NOT the end-all be-all, original and ground-breaking show that people say it is. And clearly a large portion of its fans cannot get this through their heads. Most of the people who say the RahXephon ripped off it are the ones that don't like it. Your post does nothing to raise the level of argumentation. It's just another one of those "I don't like RahXephon, and Evangelion pwns it. Obviously RahXephon's ideas were taken from Evangelion" posts that we see too much of these days.

Besides, EvaXephon definitely could have approached this differently. If he only wanted crazed Eva fanboys to reply, he should have said so. Instead, he asked for people to debate. He started one, we responded, and he chickened out.

I dont like RahXephon...but I dont think it ripped of Eva. You describe a lot of Eva fans as being rabid morons, and I have seen a lot that fit the bill. However, those who really love Eva are able to admit that it was influenced, hell it was written and directed by a life-long otaku, and in turn Eva has influenced many animes to come after it.

Originally posted on: 07.23.2006, 12:26 AM

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Postby Rydis [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

senseinobaka wrote:I dont like RahXephon...but I dont think it ripped of Eva. You describe a lot of Eva fans as being rabid morons, and I have seen a lot that fit the bill. However, those who really love Eva are able to admit that it was influenced, hell it was written and directed by a life-long otaku, and in turn Eva has influenced many animes to come after it.

Can't speak for him, but I liked both shows. I can say they do have similarties. However, the OP seemed to try to call RahXephon nothing but a cheap compelete imitation of Evangelion, when its clearly not. Not arguing it wasn't influentional. Just saying more then half of what he has on his site is BS comparisons.

Originally posted on: 07.23.2006, 12:39 AM

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Postby FullMetal Haruko [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

"Gigantor! Bigger than Big, Stronger than Strong, Taller than Tall...."

Originally posted on: 07.23.2006, 01:49 AM

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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

Wow, how'd I miss this thread for so long? Its been a long time since we've had one of these. I guess largely cause my mission to increase Ideon's awareness in english has been so successful. Anyway...

EvaXephon, I think the thing that upsets me the most is that you out and out quit simply because people dare to disagree with you. Thats disgraceful. Come back and act like a man. We're trying to have a civilized conversation with you but you cry like a little baby and run away. You're embarresing yourself, and you're embarresing Eva fans with your behavior.

Anyone who knows me knows I'm far different from the typical Eva fan, I certainly criticize it a lot more than most here and often take a contrarion view on commonly held principles of it. And frankly, a big reason for that is people like you. I like many loved Eva when I first watched it. For a time I thought it was the best anime ever. But the fandom was so absurdly over the top I couldn't stay as a part of the fandom in that way. This subject primarily. Thats why this is the only place I talk about Eva now, and even then its very rarely. And its largely because of the over the top people like you who call everything out there an Eva ripoff by flinging out flimsy reasons like all that stuff you posted. It reminds me of the arguments I had with people about Xenogears and Eva. People like you calling Xenogears a ripoff because of reasons like "both share characters named Hyuga". It was so absurd I wanted to vomit.

That said, I never would have gotten into the greatness that was Ideon if it wasn't for all the arguments about this issue, where the word Ideon first came up as an influence for Eva. So I guess its not all bad.

Your problem is you can only come up with flimsy reasons. And any item that has more than flimsy superficial backing is something Eva didn't even create! I think you'll find a lot of similarities between Eva and RahXephon is because they're both in the same genre, and hence both picked up a ton of cliches that have been in the genre for a long time! Angsty pilots have been along for decades you know! So have giant monsters like Angels and Dolems! That's right, Eva didn't invent them!

What's the worst thing on your site though? Probably this:
"Remember - while Evangelion did borrow from other giant robot shows, it also contained many original and unique aspects that previous giant robot shows did not contain"

That is so ridiculous I want to vomit. Because the majority of your site is stuff so vague that you can claim RahXephon ripped of pretty much any show out there! Then you dare to say that all this stuff was original and uniqute stuff Eva made up? Nonsense!

Let me educate you. In 1979 Yoshiyuki Tomino revolutionized the mecha genre with Gundam and Amuro Ray. Anno proceded to take Amuro, the most well known angsty teenage boy mecha pilot who uses his dad's mecha, and formulated Shinji's entire character after him, although he took him to more extremes than Tomino did.

Then in 1980 Tomino made Space Runaway Ideon. Anno proceded to lift the entire main concept of Eva, Instrumentality from Ideon. It was Ideon that first featured an entire race of humans being evolved into a single existence. It was Ideon that first featured a higher power deciding humanity was too corrupt and had to be made perfect by being absorbed into that perfect single being. It was Ideon (and Tomino's Zambot a few years earlier) that featured the mass murder ending where everyone had overly gruesome deaths. It was Ideon that had the main mecha being proclaimed a God. It was Ideon that had the live action footage. I could go on and on....

Now I'm not saying that Eva sucks because of that, as you are doing with RahXephon. And I'm not even saying that Tomino invented these things. The Ide/Sixth Civilization stuff in Ideon was obviously influenced by various religious concepts like reincarnation and nirvana. Although Tomino did bring them to anime and Anno then later took those concepts that Tomino revolutioned and put in his own anime. That doesn't mean Eva sucks, surely not! I'll admit right here and now that Eva is a better written show than Ideon! But to say that Eva came up with all these concepts like you do is pure absurdity. Evangelion is a mass conglomoration of popular mecha anime themes and obscure stuff from old school Tomino shows. It hardly invented anything.

I'm not gonna go through your similarities one by one and tear them to shreds, it would be a waste of time. You don't seem to care what we have to say so I won't bother.

Well alright, I do want to address a few of the more ridiculous ones.

The first Evangelion movie, Death, is a recap of the series. The second Evangelion movie, End of Evangelion, is an alternate version of the last two episodes.

The RahXephon movie is a recap of the series, and an alternate version of everything that happened.

It seems that the creators of RahXephon were so desperate to copy Evangelion's formula, they combined the premise of both Evangelion movies.

The first Ideon movie, A Contact, is a recap of the series. The second movie, Be Invoked is an alternative version of the ending of the TV series. Well actually its the real ending, which wasn't able to air on TV (same as Eva). Be Invoked doesn't have ending credits, like EOE (the real version, the american release by Manga botched it by adding on ending credits that weren't really there)

It seems that the creators of Eva were so desperate to copy Ideon's formula that they combined the premise of both Ideon movies.

You offer plenty of examples of close dialogue. The problem is you're using an english translation. Thats invalid. Please quote the actual Japanese dialogue. Like me for example.

In Ideon episode 33, the character Bento says 'Wakaru no ka' (how should I know?!)

In End of Eva one of the male bridge guys (Aoba I think) says 'Wakaru no ka' (how should I know?!)

Uh oh... huge ripoff there!

In RahXephon, Itsuki sees a vision of his true love, Quon, before he dies. In the Evangelion movie, the characters see visions of Rei or visions of their true love before they die.

Like in Ideon how when Sheryl dies her soul sees a vision of her beloved Gije.

In both series, a man creates a god, and the theme of god creating man and man creating god eventually becomes a central theme. Also, in both series, that god is the main robot that is piloted by the main character.

And in Ideon, the Ideon is a God created by the Sixth Civilization. And the Ideon is the main robot piloted by our main characters.

As you can see, many of your stuff wasn't invented by Eva, and as I've shown, I can do the exact same thing and argue how Eva ripped off Ideon in the same exact way. And this doesn't even touch some of the more absurd ones like 'blushing kids' or 'opening door' which I have only realized now were invented by Eva!

On to stuff brought up in this thread...

Those articles are full of glaring errors of their own, though. I'm pretty
sure the author has disclaimed their content. Even if he has not, I'm certain that they shouldn't be used to support any point other than the influences from Ideon that Evangelion took.

Aside from anything else, most of it is just plain opinion, which varies.

No, I haven't disclaimed them. The only one I disclaimed was the one about how the TV ending and movie ending were completely different from another after a long discussion at this board. Even so, I'm not 100% on board with that theory anyway. Everything else there I fully stand bye. Let me know of any mistakes, I don't think there are any in there.

Ironically the biggest reason I wrote those in the first place was because of people like EvaXephon. Seeing people like him type out lists about why Rah or Xenogears, etc... were so alike to Eva with such flimsy reasons caused me to do the exact same thing and type up how Eva was a ripoff of Gundam because White Base had 3 mechas, because they both had suicidal blonds, etc... Great parody, although not enough realize thats what it is when reading it. Many of the others have little to do with the ripoff arguments (like the people saying Eva would never air on TV, I clearly explained why it could, and years later was proved right when Adult Swim picked it up)

The essays are still available on Eva Monkey's site.

That article is one of the ones which is right on the mark. The author is probably the foremost expert on Ideon outside Japan.

Thanks for the compliment! Image

Well it's not a cheap rip-off (the animation is more fluid) it just follows most of the parameters that evangelion used which made it a legend. But Evangelion was first so it's viewed as a rip-off. RahXephon is no more a rip-off than Dual!, Blue Gender, Gilgamesh, Technolyze, or Gasaraki are.

Eva wasn't the first. Thats the point. Eva was one in a long line of mecha shows in that fashion. It was essentially a combination of Ideon and Gundam, with a tighter and more consise storyline. I won't deny that Eva hit all the right buttons in terms of popularity and mystique which made it such a huge hit, but it is only one in dozens in its genre, and the stuff contained within it was done by Tomino 15 years before Eva aired.

I won't deny that there are homages to Eva in RahXephon. Thats pretty obvious at times. Which is why a small sliver of your comparisons are valid (although they were done that way on purpose, not because they were ripping off Eva as you claim). But the fact remains that RahXephon was influenced most by Raideen, not Eva. And Eva's so called originality doesn't exist, it came mostly from Ideon and Gundam.

Originally posted on: 07.23.2006, 03:07 AM

VSh [ANF]
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Postby VSh [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

Van wrote:Nice to see your original account EvaXephon.

Miss. Your qwickwittedness is also equal to your arguments.

soulreaper wrote:Your post does nothing to raise the level of argumentation.

It wasn't argument, it was judgement. Anyway the level slightly went up.

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 09:34 AM

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Postby Loopy [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

VSh wrote:Miss. Your qwickwittedness is also equal to your arguments.


It wasn't argument, it was judgement. Anyway the level slightly went up.

Yet all you do is post smartass remarks and do nothing to rebuke the original arguments presented by naysayers...such great argumentation, OMFG!

Here's a hint if you want to make yourself and your buddy EvaX look better why not try...you know, debating? That thing that involves rational discussion 'tween two sides/people, etc.? Would really help you look better.

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 10:48 AM

Van [ANF]
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Postby Van [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

VSh wrote:Miss. Your qwickwittedness is also equal to your arguments.

Thankfully my quick-witttedness isn't equal to your spelling. Stop acting high and mighty when you have contributed nothing meaningful to this thread.

People like you should take the following quote into consideration before you start making foolish and misinformed claims.

No idea's original, there's nothin new under the sun
It's never what you do, but how it's done


Why does Anno just reuse character archtype's from Gunbuster with Shinji, Asuka and Gendo? You know Gunbuster (Anno's true masterpiece) the anime that started off as a parody... so in other words wasn't exactly original itself.

Gainax/Anno fans can see the influences from their older works in Evangelion, Mecha fans can also see influences from 80's anime. What exactly did Evangelion bring to the table? Religious references that the creators themselves admitted were only included for the "coolness" aspect?

Evangelion was far from original yet that does not dimish the show at all since it's not what you do it's how it's done that counts (Eva's streets above Ideon in terms of quality imo). I am curious in the Evangelion fan mentality that has led to the following shows being declared as ripoffs throughout the last 5 years.

Escaflowne, Xenogears, Brainpowred, Betterman, Duel, Nadesico, Argento Soma, RahXephon, Fafner and countless others. Do you people need to reassure yourselves that your favourite show is the best and original or something?

So I challenge you just like I did EvaXephon, I want you to tell us what exactly did Evangelion bring to the table that was unique and original?

Will you raise the level of arguementation? Or will you run away just like EvaXephon?

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 11:37 AM

Quiddity [ANF]
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Postby Quiddity [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:54 pm

Escaflowne, Xenogears, Brainpowred, Betterman, Duel, Nadesico, Argento Soma, RahXephon, Fafner and countless others. Do you people need to reassure yourselves that your favourite show is the best and original or something?

LoL, and Escaflowne was in production since 1991, kinda hard for it to be claimed as an Eva ripoff (particularly when its absolutely nothing like Eva outside of being in the mecha genre).

Don't forget Pilot Candidate and Gundam SEED. Yep, I've even heard them proclaim a Gundam show an Eva ripoff Image

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 06:13 PM

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Postby Colossus [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

Its hard,Eva was the first to really use that theme.Or the creator of the whole apocalyptic end-of-the-world scenario and giant robots theme.Speaking of that,were there any users of that theme before Eva came out?

Rah might be considered a copy of Eva,like i said before...for a number of reasons.

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 07:35 PM

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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

^ Have you read the thread? Doesn't Ideon have a very strong "end of the world giant mech" theme? Haven't about a dozen people mentioned that, as well as Anno's direct influence from Ideon?

What I think Evangelion does that's original is present ... an allegorical argument, I guess I'd say. The characters serve more as symbols within the allegory than they do as characters. While it might not be unique, I don't think that the structure of that allegory was simply lifted from other sources. I think it's also more of an art film in terms of its camera angles, transitions, juxtapositions... all that directorial stuff. That's what I think Evangelion does more uniquely than the series it uses for inspirations. I don't think the allegory or the directorial wizardry were just copied; I think they were independent goals of the production staff.

Pretty much everything else (all the surface stuff about mecha, the look of the characters, the sutuations, etc.) isn't really that original. At least not in Evangelion, as many people in this thread have said.

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 07:43 PM

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Postby Bernard_Monsha [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

Does anyone else find it suspicious that the poster of the thread and uses Shinji Ikari's avatar and makes the same cicular evasive arguments. May be he is spending his time doing this now.

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 08:20 PM

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Postby Gendo [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

The similarities between Eva and Raxephon do exist, but they aren't anyy similarities really unique or original to Evangelion. The basic "Super Robot" anime story was arround LONG before evangelion.


As for direct similarities, I really dont see it. The characters in Rahxephon are completly different from the characters in Evangelion. Few expmples.....

Characters in Rahxephon have social skills

The hero in Rahxephon isn't a little *****

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 08:28 PM

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Postby Talon [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

I don't see how you can say 165 similarities out of 52 episodes and 4 movies (That is Rah + Eva) make something completely identical to something else. Even if they were good similarities.

@EvaXephon: You, my "friend" have flawed reasoning. I weep for you Image

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 09:00 PM

RyoTD [ANF]
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Postby RyoTD [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

Bernard_Monsha wrote:Does anyone else find it suspicious that the poster of the thread and uses Shinji Ikari's avatar and makes the same cicular evasive arguments. May be he is spending his time doing this now.

meka64 used that avatar, too.

Am I smelling a conspiracy here?

Originally posted on: 07.24.2006, 09:02 PM

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

RyoTD wrote:Am I smelling a conspiracy here?

I'm not so sure. That Rei-avvie is, after all, AN's pre-defined Eva avatar. And EvaXephon seems to be way better at spelling and grammar, too. But then again, he never actually denied being Shinji_Ikari...

Quiddity wrote:Don't forget Pilot Candidate and Gundam SEED. Yep, I've even heard them proclaim a Gundam show an Eva ripoff Image

Yeah, it was really great how Shinn started screaming when Giant Naked Kira approached him and - I mean, OMG, where do you meet people like this?!? I need a link! Image

Leader Desslock wrote:What I think Evangelion does that's original is present ... an allegorical argument, I guess I'd say. The characters serve more as symbols within the allegory than they do as characters.

A bit off-topic, but do you consider NGE as a whole to be a symbolic/allegorical story?

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 08:33 AM

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Postby Van [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:55 pm

Talon wrote:Even if they were good similarities.

Half those similarities were complete and utter crap.

And what's the story with this Shinji_Ikari poster?

Originally posted on: 07.25.2006, 09:06 AM


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