Is RahXephon a copy of Evangelion?

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Lord Timaeus [ANF]
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Postby Lord Timaeus [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:46 pm

It's too bad the Escaflowne Online articles on Evangelion are now 404'd, otherwise I'd link to them.

By the way, when I was young and stupid, I was an overdepressed loony who masturbated to Asuka. ZOMG MY LIFE RIPPED OFF EVA!

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 02:30 PM

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:46 pm

^You can use cached copies of them...I have before.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 02:44 PM

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:46 pm

Lord Kuroishi wrote:It's too bad the Escaflowne Online articles on Evangelion are now 404'd, otherwise I'd link to them.

Those articles are full of glaring errors of their own, though. I'm pretty sure the author has disclaimed their content. Even if he has not, I'm certain that they shouldn't be used to support any point other than the influences from Ideon that Evangelion took.

Aside from anything else, most of it is just plain opinion, which varies.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 02:55 PM

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Postby Lord Timaeus [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:46 pm

2^Great, I'll just copy and paste the Ideon article here:

The late EscaflowneOnline.com wrote:Evangelion, from 1980?

Tomino's version of Eva, made 15 years earlier
For all the talk about how Eva is so original, its surprising when you look back over mecha animes in the 20 years before it only to find many concepts from Evangelion already used! The similarities to Mobile Suit Gundam have already been discussed on this site. But if you go just a year later you will find an anime even more similar to Evangelion, from Yoshiyuki Tomino as well.

Beginning soon after Gundam was cancelled, Space Runaway Ideon premiered in Japanese television in 1980. Like Gundam before it, Tomino took mecha anime to new heights by continuing the mature philosophies he had in Mobile Suit Gundam. Starting on the colony planet Solo and featuring action over the entire universe, Space Runaway Ideon features the powerful mecha Ideon, piloted by young Earth colonists who are under pursuit from the mysterious Buff Clan, aliens who look identical to humans but are much more advanced than we are. Traveling across the universe on the Solo Ship, the Ideon along with refugees from Solo, where the Ideon was created flee from the Buff Clan while trying to find out as much as they can about the mysterious mecha they use and the ship they are on, left behind by a long dead civilization.

Ideon lacks the male angst featured so heavily in Gundam and Evangelion for all but a short period of time in one of the stand alone episodes, but character templates to Eva remain. Kasha Imhof, one of the pilots of the Ideon is a bloodthirsty, aggressive girl. As into the fighting as her male colleagues its often Kasha who displays the most anger and resentment in battle, similar to a red headed pilot we all know so well. Sheryl Formosa, a linguistic scholar aboard the Solo Ship who investigates the Ideon and the powerful 'Id' energy that powers it is arrogant and obsessed, similar to how Ritsuko eventually becomes as Evangelion draws to a close.

Religious symbolism is used very sparingly in Ideon, in fact there is only a few notable ones, like the use of the term 'Messiah' in the second Ideon movie, 'Be Invoked'. The Ideon itself is called a God by allies and enemies alike, and is revered as much as Eva Unit 01. It is the key to the plans of both the Buff Clan and the 'Id' energy that has a mind of its own. The Ideon, like Unit 01 goes berserk multiple times in the series displaying even more power than it appeared to have before.

The main similarity between the two shows however is the concept of Instrumentality from Evangelion, which is exactly like what occurs in Ideon. In Ideon, the powerful 'Id' energy is pursued by the Buff Clan and powers both the Ideon and the Solo Ship. The Id is no simple energy source though, it has a mind of its own and is responsible for bringing the two enemies together. It is later made clear than Id is actually the consciousness of all the people of the civilization that created the Ideon, merged into a single entity. The Id has a mind of its own and is sick with the war like nature of both planets. Humanity and the Buff Clan have multiple chances to reconcile themselves, but their war-like mentality is too entrenched and the Id, like SEELE in Evangelion decide that humanity is far too corrupt to continue living in this state. Everyone will die and be merged into a single entity, the Id itself and thus corruption, war, and the like will vanish from the universe entirely. This is the exact scenario from Evangelion with Instrumentality/Third Impact. The one difference? Ideon's instrumenality succeeds while Eva's is stopped by Shinji in End of Evangelion.

The fact that Evangelion was influenced by Ideon is something that can't be argued, Anno himself has admitted it as a major influence and even the most hellbent Eva fanatics who have seen Ideon in its entirety will admit the two are immensely similar. One final reference is made at the very end of the final episode of the TV series when the message 'And to the children, Congradulations!' appears on the screen. This is referring to the very end of the Ideon: Be Invoked movie where the souls of the children who died are all singing 'Happy Birthday Dear Children'. The use of the word 'Children', so prevelent in Eva when referring to the Eva pilots is used in Ideon to refer to the souls of the dead characters after Ideon's version of Instrumentality has succeeded.

Well, I haven't seen Ideon (and probably never will due to recent circumstances), so I wouldn't know for sure about the factuality of this article. Sue me.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 02:57 PM

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:46 pm

That article is one of the ones which is right on the mark. The author is probably the foremost expert on Ideon outside Japan.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:00 PM

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Postby Van [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:46 pm

He's a good guy been talking/debating with him on the net for quite a few years. Me and him were flying the flag for Xephon when the firs teps were being fansubbed. Think their was a 400+ post thread on that forum...

Had moronic stuff like this in that thread.

Evangelion - Set in 2015
RahXephon - Set in 2015
It's a copy

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:03 PM

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Postby Loopy [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

EvaXephon wrote:If you're a fan of either Evangelion or RahXephon, or if you hate one of the abovementioned shows, I'd really like to show you this website.

http://evaxephon.com

Yes, it's my own website, but I'm not just here to plug it, I want it to spark a healthy debate about Evangelion and RahXephon. What I want you to discuss is whether or not RahXephon copied Evangelion.

In my opinion, RahXephon is a very entertaining show, but it is a clone of Evangelion, scene-for-scene, word-for-word, character-for-character. Don't believe me? Seen both shows, and disagree? Then please take a look at my site. I've composed a 17-page gallery of 165 similarities between Evangelion and RahXephon that I think proves that RahXephon copies Evangelion from beginning to end. I only hesitate to use the term 'rip-off' because it's so negative and because I still like RahXephon anyway.

Please take a look at the 'Similarities' section of my website, browse the galleries, and then come back here and tell me what you think. I'm really interested in hearing someone try to tell me that RahXephon is not a complete clone of Evangelion.

No it's not.

Are you Shinji_Ikari by any chance?

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:03 PM

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

Soluzar wrote:That article is one of the ones which is right on the mark. The author is probably the foremost expert on Ideon outside Japan.

That Quiddity is.

Van wrote:btw Eva fans has MDWigs been posting here at all?

Haven't seen him here in a long time.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:06 PM

Van [ANF]
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Postby Van [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

Oh btw EvaXephon you wouldn't happen to be a poster called Kyrakasa from animeboards?

http://www.animeboards.com/showthread.php?t=50791

Me = Westlo on that board and quidity is Sheex, The Dark Stalker

I only ask because that person stupidity is the only think that comes close to yours and that person said he was working on a site.

btw Eva fans has MDWigs been posting here at all?

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:07 PM

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

Nah, Shinji_Ikari had more resolve. EvaXephon left around post #10 when his ideas were deemed laughable, and he hasn't been back. Image

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:07 PM

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Postby soulreaper [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

EvaXephon wrote:If you're a fan of either Evangelion or RahXephon, or if you hate one of the abovementioned shows, I'd really like to show you this website.

http://evaxephon.com

Yes, it's my own website, but I'm not just here to plug it, I want it to spark a healthy debate about Evangelion and RahXephon. What I want you to discuss is whether or not RahXephon copied Evangelion.

In my opinion, RahXephon is a very entertaining show, but it is a clone of Evangelion, scene-for-scene, word-for-word, character-for-character. Don't believe me? Seen both shows, and disagree? Then please take a look at my site. I've composed a 17-page gallery of 165 similarities between Evangelion and RahXephon that I think proves that RahXephon copies Evangelion from beginning to end. I only hesitate to use the term 'rip-off' because it's so negative and because I still like RahXephon anyway.

Please take a look at the 'Similarities' section of my website, browse the galleries, and then come back here and tell me what you think. I'm really interested in hearing someone try to tell me that RahXephon is not a complete clone of Evangelion.

Ahem...

Tenshi na Konamaiki and Ranma 1/2- Gender bending
Yu Yu Hakusho and Bleach- Spirit worlds and ghost fighting
Naruto and Dragonball Z- They're both popular?

By the way, have you ever seen that South Park episode where Butters tries to create a plan to wreak havoc on his town, only to find out that the Simpsons have already done each and every plan he thinks up? Every idea has been done before. Evangelion isn't the amazingly original and groundbreaking show that its more "devoted" fanboys seem to think it is. And if you already know this, yet continue to claim RahXephon is a thief, then you just aren't making any sense at all in keeping Evangelion from blame.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:08 PM

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

Loopy wrote:Are you Shinji_Ikari by any chance?

Van wrote:Oh btw EvaXephon you wouldn't happen to be a poster called Kyrakasa from animeboards?

Oh god, that's absolutely ruthless! I tip my hat to you, sirs.
(A link for the uninitiated.)

Van wrote:Is there a professor in ZOE Dr Nick?

Just ask how many! There's also a female lead mecha, phallic symbolism, and hats.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:26 PM

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

soulreaper wrote:Tenshi na Konamaiki and Ranma 1/2- Gender bending

Oh, we can take it a lot farther than that. There's an episode of Urusei Yatsura where Ataru gets turned into a girl (simultaneously a curse and a blessing to him), which means that Rumiko Takahashi was copying herself! Totally shameless, that. Image

TnK isn't a shameless rip on Ranma 1/2. That honor goes more to Futaba-kun Change.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 03:46 PM

Lord Timaeus [ANF]
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Postby Lord Timaeus [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:TnK isn't a shameless rip on Ranma 1/2. That honor goes more to Futaba-kun Change.

I think that was his point, actually. He was basically stating that comparing Evangelion and RahXephon is as pointless as comparing TnK to Ranma, because although both series have similar premises, they're still completely different from each other.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:07 PM

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

I know. I'm just goin' with the craziness. Once you start seeing how every series ripped off every other series, the sky's the limit!

What do you think the OP thinks of parodies and homages?

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:10 PM

Lord Timaeus [ANF]
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Postby Lord Timaeus [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:47 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:I know. I'm just goin' with the craziness. Once you start seeing how every series ripped off every other series, the sky's the limit!

What do you think the OP thinks of parodies and homages?

I'd rather not get into the probable mind of the OP for fear of getting banned, but yes, there are many valid reasons why the RahXephon vs. Evangelion debate is pointless. The only thing this argument accomplished for me is making me want to see RahXephon when I first heard this debate.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:22 PM

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:48 pm

Van wrote:btw Eva fans has MDWigs been posting here at all?

I doubt that he ever will again. His real life was keeping him too busy for the internet, as of the last contact he had with this forum. I don't imagine he'd approve of the drama-fest that the Eva forum has become, either. He's a member of the old-school, before things became so fraught.

He's a good guy been talking/debating with him on the net for quite a few years. Me and him were flying the flag for Xephon when the firs teps were being fansubbed. Think their was a 400+ post thread on that forum...

I don't really know him that well, but I prefer not to see his articles cited, other than the one about references to Ideon, because they aren't anything but pure opinion, which proves nothing. They're all very well as opinion pieces, but it's not as though his conclusions represent the logical end product of a logical process, as opposed to those articles written by MDWigs, which could be used as the basis for a thesis, should Wigs feel so inclined.

Lord Kuroishi wrote:I'd rather not get into the probable mind of the OP for fear of getting banned, but yes, there are many valid reasons why the RahXephon vs. Evangelion debate is pointless. The only thing this argument accomplished for me is making me want to see RahXephon when I first heard this debate.

You should. It's completely different to Evangelion in every way that actually matters, but it's a great mecha anime. I can't say it's one of my favourites, because I only have room for five favourites, and RahXephon would fall somewhat outside that lofty group, but it's worth a rental.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:26 PM

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Postby Lord Timaeus [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:48 pm

Soluzar wrote:You should. It's completely different to Evangelion in every way that actually matters, but it's a great mecha anime. I can't say it's one of my favourites, because I only have room for five favourites, and RahXephon would fall somewhat outside that lofty group, but it's worth a rental.

Actually, I was referring to three years ago, when the ongoing Eva vs. RahX argument sparked my interest in seeing RahXephon. I've actually seen it now, and it's definately one of my favorites. Sorry if I wasn't too clear.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:32 PM

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:48 pm

Lord Kuroishi wrote:Actually, I was referring to three years ago, when the ongoing Eva vs. RahX argument sparked my interest in seeing RahXephon. I've actually seen it now, and it's definately one of my favorites. Sorry if I wasn't too clear.

I think I should have been able to work that out, if I was really thinking hard enough. No need to be sorry, of course. Image

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:34 PM

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Postby Baka Deshi [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:48 pm

It was quite obvious to me when I watched RahXephon that it was cut from the same cloth of which Eva was made.

Copy? Not really. Heavily influenced? Undoubtably.

Originally posted on: 07.21.2006, 04:34 PM


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