Shinji and Asuka

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Mr. Tines [ANF]
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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:10 pm

Just to set the record straight, the collection of choice Asuka lines in post #466 was compiled by OMF in post #448.

The Asuka Ikari image is one of Pengel's.

Originally posted on: 15-May-2005, 00:49 GMT

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Postby drgenestarwind [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:10 pm

Asuka puts up her front showing a great deal of maturity as a defense mechanism for the deal about losing her mother. and i think she dosnet let her feeling between her and Shinji come though because of it.

but great image mavs.

Originally posted on: 15-May-2005, 04:15 GMT

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Postby Digitalex [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:10 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:The Asuka Ikari image is one of Pengel's.



Do you know anyone who has these translated? It looks really interesting.

Originally posted on: 15-May-2005, 05:29 GMT

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Postby MavsWorld [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:10 pm

I don't think Asuka putting up a front the way she does and avoiding the problem shows maturity, more immaturity. She pretends it doesn't exist instead of facing the problem. The maturity is a front that protects her from the fact that she is a child and she finds it traumatising and cannot accept and remedy the situation.

Originally posted on: 15-May-2005, 20:22 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Digitalex wrote:Do you know anyone who has these translated? It looks really interesting.



The only translation I have seen is of the introductory text in

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/%7Ecam84600/SSS/S0.html

which Reichu did

In the year 2015 A.D., due to Third Impact, people vanished from the face of the Earth...
Two people -- a boy and a girl -- are left behind.
The boy's name is Shinji Ikari.
The girl's name is Asuka Langley Soryu.
They both want to live/exist together.

In the year 2016 A.D., in the new 0 century, the story of the new century
of two people (only two people, two people alone) continues...



The rest is an incentive to learn the language.

Originally posted on: 15-May-2005, 12:55 GMT

Digitalex [ANF]
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Postby Digitalex [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:The only translation I have seen is of the introductory text in

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/%7Ecam84600/SSS/S0.html

which Reichu did



The rest is an incentive to learn the language.



Thanks! I've had many incentives over the years to learn the language. Unfortunately I've never made the time or effort. I'll have to look for the next best thing, a reddish/brown haired girl with blue eyes that can speak Japanese...oh wait...this one might have problems reading Kanji though. Oh well. She will have to do. Image

Originally posted on: 16-May-2005, 00:22 GMT

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Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Lastie wrote:It's only a matter of time until he cracks and publishes what we've all been waiting for: [b]NGE Explained Completely



That's what the Commentary project is about. If you want a job done properly, and all that.

Digitalex wrote:I'll have to look for the next best thing, a reddish/brown haired girl with blue eyes that can speak Japanese...oh wait...this one might have problems reading Kanji though. Oh well. She will have to do. Image



You'll have to wait in line Image

Originally posted on: 16-May-2005, 19:32 GMT

AchtungAffen [ANF]
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Postby AchtungAffen [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Let's face the truth. After marriage there's only one way things go, the big way.

So, the married Asuka by 2025 would look a little more like...

Image

screaming "Where are my potato chips btch??!!!" to a tired from work Shinji.

Originally posted on: 17-May-2005, 08:41 GMT

Lastie [ANF]
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Postby Lastie [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

An improvement, you have to admit ...

Originally posted on: 17-May-2005, 09:33 GMT

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Postby MavsWorld [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Now if she looked like that in the series then way more americans would watch it.

Originally posted on: 17-May-2005, 16:23 GMT

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Postby Joeshie [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

MavsWorld wrote:Now if she looked like that in the series then way more americans would watch it.



That's a rather odd presumption. Image

Originally posted on: 18-May-2005, 03:51 GMT

Digitalex [ANF]
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Postby Digitalex [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Joeshie wrote:That's a rather odd presumption. Image



Ditto! Maybe fans of Roseanne or the Drew Cary Show would tune in? Image

Originally posted on: 18-May-2005, 05:19 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:11 pm

Camille loves Roseanne, but he sure ain't fat. Image

Originally posted on: 18-May-2005, 05:24 GMT

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Postby MagicianCamille [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Nah, I'm sexy.

And yes, Roseanne is the ****.

Originally posted on: 18-May-2005, 05:25 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

^I can concur with both above statements

Originally posted on: 18-May-2005, 05:32 GMT

MavsWorld [ANF]
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Postby MavsWorld [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

I was commenting on how quite a lot of Americans who I have talked to say they don't like anime and much prefur american cartoons such as family guy and simpsons where their favourite characters are pete griffon and Homer, who are both overweight.

Originally posted on: 18-May-2005, 21:10 GMT

Lastie [ANF]
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Postby Lastie [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

I was commenting on how quite a lot of Americans who I have talked to say they don't like anime and much prefur american cartoons such as family guy and simpsons where their favourite characters are pete griffon and Homer, who are both overweight.



I'm sure there's nothing sinister to be read here ...

Originally posted on: 19-May-2005, 10:18 GMT

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Postby Goldarmy [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

I am a late reader and slow poster here are response and view of 35-40.

Soluzar wrote:With regards to the rest of your issues with my analysis and my conclusions, I am thoroughly satisfied with my work, and do not feel the need to defend my analysis further, especially since beyond the point which I have already reached, analysis of these scenes degenerates into nothing but opinion versus opinion.


That may seem so, but there are some parts of your analysis that needs to be adressed.
Soluzar wrote:You don't see what I see, then? You don't see a girl who is truly hurt because she felt that she had been rejected by Shinji? You don't see a girl who has finally shown her softer side? The chinks in her armour? The fact that she is no lesss fragile and breakable than Shinji himself? I submit that you are not looking hard enough.


Frankly no, though it shows that she isn't invulnerable. But I don't see a girl who is truly hurt because she felt that she had been rejected by Shinji. This isn't a matter of us not looking hard enough. It simply isn't there.

Soluzar wrote:It is my opinion that the plan would have worked equally well from a technical point of view, had the pairing been Rei/Asuka, Rei/Shini, or Asuka/Shinji. Rei seems to me more than capable of executing the attacks with the required precision.


There is a few more possibilities in here to explore.

Shinji is paired with Rei, they do well but this angers Asuka both because she isn't the center of attention and because she is going to be left behind. She demands to try, when she is paired with Shinji she fails and unable to accept failure fleds the room. If she is paired with Rei they do well and Misato uses this to imply that they can work together. This gives the same outcome if Rei was first paired with Shinji then Asuka.

Asuka is paired with Rei, they again do well, she is then paired with Shinji which again doesn't go well. She blames Shinji for his uselessness and demands to be paired with Rei. This is similar to if Asuka was first paired with Shinji then Rei.

This is an example to how different pairings may have given different outcomes.

Soluzar wrote:The fact that down inside, he knows that this story was a crock.



Shinji: Well...

Asuka: Don't say anything.

Asuka: I know.

Asuka: I have to pilot the Eva. I've got no choice.

Asuka: I'll do it.

Asuka: No matter what, I'll put Rei and Misato to shame.

Shinji: You don't have to squash them.

Asuka: You are being too simplistic, even if you are a man!

Asuka: I must avenge myself. My pride...

Asuka: It is a matter of honor now, you see?



Shinji isn't the brightest bulb in the series and human character isn't the subject he excels at. So how could he draw such a conclusion in here?

Soluzar wrote:She just wants to be partnered with Shinji.


Wanting to be the part of mission and wanting to be partnered with Shinji are different things, and it is the former that takes place in here.

Soluzar wrote:He's not quite stupid enough to fail to realise this, and so he is pleased.


He realised that she has won her confidence back and he saw a fiery warrior to admire.

Soluzar wrote:Asuka has never been the one chosen child - she was always one among a minimum of three, possibly to be more later. Even in terms of this operation, she was one of two. The best she could ever aspire to was "first among equals".


Mr. Tines has summarised what I will say.

Soluzar wrote:This is not by itself, sufficent to set aside her displacement as pilot as the reason for her dismay, but Hikari seems very clear about what has upset the Second Children.


Yes it is , for Hikari see below.
Soluzar wrote:Add to this the fact that Shinji is accepted immediately as a ready and welcome remedy to her woes.



I didn't understand what you say with this sentence.

Soluzar wrote:Add to this the fact that she was being replaced by another girl.



While it is blow to her, it fades compared to the facts that she can be replaced and she will be replaced.

Soluzar wrote:Add to this the fact that she may well have confided in Hikari in the off-screen time prior to this event, and then finally add in the events of later in the series and later in the episode, and within the context of everything we know about Shinji and Asuka, it begins to look - to me at least - like somewhat of a compelling case for her separation from Shinji as being the cause of her grief.



Now we have entered speculation and subjective views. First to deal is Hikari's reaction, which is exaggerated. Hikari is a fourteen year old girl who doesn't understand Asuka truly, and she can't understand Asuka. She came to a conlusion with what appeared to her on the surface, but that doesn't mean she was right. Asuka lives behind a facade she built, and she uses it against everyone. She isn't going to pour out all her heart to a girl she knows for a few weeks.
To sum it up Hikari thought Shinji caused Asuka's escape from the room, but she was wrong. It all had to do about being a pilot and nothing about Shinji.

Soluzar wrote:Asuka realises this, in screenshot number thirty-five, she makes what appears, any way you look at it, to be an extremely suggestive comment to Shinji. In my mind, that statement, coupled with the tone of voice, and body language of its delivery, translates directly to "lets make out!"


While this scene is suggestive as said, the way after Asuka finishes her line scene instantly changes to her picking up her futon to move next room makes me think she didn't really mean it.

Soluzar wrote:What he does not realise is that this is a test of sorts.[/Soluzar] Yes it is a test allright.

[QUOTE=Soluzar]Shinji, as can plainly be seen in screenshot thirty-eight, looks devastated, the look on his face says more than words ever could.


It is actually more of a "What have I done now?" look, and a proof to Shinji's ignorance about women.

Soluzar wrote:From this we may draw the conclusion that Asuka may have been speaking metaphorically, and her meaning may have been that her "walls" could be brought down if only Shinji was willing to "sound his horn" and show a little courage.


She may have said that knowing the comment will fly over his head, as Christianity isn't that common in Japan. Her meaning would be, for a ignorant spineless fool like you these walls are indeed impenetrable.

Soluzar wrote:The first additional thing to notice is that there was no reason for Asuka to re-open the door after decending to her knees in order to deliver this challenge to Shinji.


There is one reason actually, the Fanservice, and that in itself is the reason enough.

Soluzar wrote:This is clearly deliberate on the part of the animators, since after a moment, his eyes move upwards, though perhaps reluctantly.


The "Huh?" response of Shinji is priceless, Asuka must have come to OMF conclusion in here.

Soluzar wrote:Firstly, she is dissapointed that he hasn't responded yet to her overtures, and secondly, she is challenging him to prove her wrong, and break down the walls of Jericho so that they can get sweaty together.


I agree the first part for different reason.

Soluzar wrote:She delivers her challenge, and as it becomes clear that he will not respond, she grows angry, and slams the door againg.


She was already angry when she opened the door, how can you tell the difference?

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 09:47 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Goldarmy wrote:With regards to everything you have said about the scenese from "Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win, I'm going to ignore them, because everything you said there is not only highly subjective, but in many cases, it is not my opinion that it is supported by the evidence on screen. I see no reason to reach beyond the evidence presented on screen when doing this, and have stated repeatedly that this is nothing more than one man's interpretation of these scenes. My own subjective views are plausible, however, and they do not contradict the evidence on screen



While this scene is suggestive as said, the way after Asuka finishes her line scene instantly changes to her picking up her futon to move next room makes me think she didn't really mean it.

As you will see, if you scroll back a little while, Shin-Seiki and I both agree that these scenes are not meant to occur without a little off-screen time taking place between them. Hopefully at some point, he will post his evidence for this point so that it may be put to rest.


It is actually more of a "What have I done now?" look, and a proof to Shinji's ignorance about women.

It makes very little difference to the whole analysis what he throught/


She may have said that knowing the comment will fly over his head, as Christianity isn't that common in Japan. Her meaning would be, for a ignorant spineless fool like you these walls are indeed impenetrable.


Now look, quite obviouslythat was her meaning to Shinji, but the writer and the character were also indirectly speaking to the audience with this line, knowing that some people would be able to read additional meanings into this.

There is one reason actually, the Fanservice, and that in itself is the reason enough.

I'm thoroughly dissapointed that anyone even brought that up. If you truly believe that, then we should just abandon discussion and debate of Evangelion as a whole, since all things within the show can be explained by extrinsic reasons rather than intrinsic ones. I am shocked and dismayed that you could believe this.

She was already angry when she opened the door, how can you tell the difference?

Subtlety. The difference is there, if you want to see it. It's all in the context. Look, you obviously disagree with me, and that's quite fair enough, mm'kay? I'm not going to waste my time making a perfunctory point-by-point response to someone who seems so dead set against my views. I had a series of analyses planned for several scenes in later episodes, but I've decided to pass up on that.

When you watch a scene involving Shinji and Asuka, it is not enough to watch it in an isolated manner, as I feel that some of you are doing. You must, if you wish to lay claim to a full understanding, you must watch it in the context of the whole series, and how can anyone claim that the revelations we get about Asuka through the extended mind-rape scene shouldn't colour our perceptions of the early parts of their relationship.

Sorry if anyone was anxiously awaiting another chapter. The responses that I've had have simply convinced me that my skills are not yet at that point where I should be delivering a long analysis of this nature. Image

'twas naught but an experiment.

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 14:37 GMT

OMF [ANF]
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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Soluzar wrote:As you will see, if you scroll back a little while, Shin-Seiki and I both agree that these scenes are not meant to occur without a little off-screen time taking place between them. Hopefully at some point, he will post his evidence for this point so that it may be put to rest.


I really don't think this is the case. Notice that Shinji's SDAT does not skip a beat during this scene. While the explanation would resolve Asuka's seemingly inexplicable mood swing, it doesn't seem to fit very well.

Originally posted on: 24-May-2005, 14:49 GMT


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