Goldarmy wrote:Quote: Originally Posted by Soluzar Although I am concentrating solely on the Asuka & Shinji relationship in these posts, It is my contention that Kaji is a surrogate father to both Shinji and Asuka, in the same way that Misato is their surrogate mother. Leaving aside the entertaingin notion that this would, in fact, make any Asuka & Shinji relationship incestuous, from a certain point of view, it fits nicely, because you could then say that where Shinji has the Oedipus complex, Asuka has the Elektra complex. Nice symmetry, if nothing else. Not, however, strictly germane to the topic at hand.
It is a bit ironic that this comes before the comment about barking. First and foremost Kaji isn't a father figure but a boyfriend for Asuka (a role he really wants to get himself out of), she didn't feel the absence of a father the same way Shinji did. While Misato may be under the delusion that she is a surrogate mother, she isn't and not for her attempt to get into her children's pants(not that it helps anyway). In Shinji's eyes she is a cheery yet irresponsible babysitter or big sister and a beatiful woman, it is hard for him to have someone as a mother figure who depends on him so many ways. Likewise for Asuka whatever care she got from her grandmother and stepmother is far better to fill the need of a mother than the alcoholic 14 year old girl in a 30 year old body. only Kaji and Shinji part is right.
There is no irony. You have woefully misunderstood the concepts at work in that particular part of my analysis. With regards to the rest of your issues with my analysis and my conclusions, I am thoroughly satisfied with my work, and do not feel the need to defend my analysis further, especially since beyond the point which I have already reached, analysis of these scenes degenerates into nothing but opinion versus opinion.
All that having been said, I feel that I must draw your attention to the flaws in your argument. Kaji is not, and never could be a boyfriend to Asuka. He does not wish to be, and therefore he is not. The Elektra complex is the female counter part to the Oedipus complex, in other words, the name given to the phase that some girls go through where they become atracted to their father. My point is that since Kaji is not a viable target for Asukas's romantic advances, and he is an older man, then he might as well be a father-substitute for Asuka. The fact that she does not see him as a father figure is immaterial; Those in the grip of abnormal psychological states are frequently unaware of the existance of said state, due to the loss of the critical faculty. The fact that she was not deprived of her father is also immaterial, since it is often a development of the Oedipus/Elektra complex that the child will realise that their parent is not an acceptable partner, but will go on to seek other older, and somewhat "parental" figures as sexual partners, often subconsciously.
With regard to the notion that Shinji doesn't see Misato as a surrogate mother, that's a whole other thread in itself, but I must say that I believe you are quite wrong. In addition to which, by picking upon this small and insignificant part of my work, which I could just as easily have left out, but for my need to provoke a cheap laugh, you are perhaps making a straw man.
I am not exactly an anti Asuka/Shinji shipper, but I am against the presentation of everything as a part of Asuka Shinji romance. This has scene nothing to do with affection, it is a pissing contest. It is Asuka's complaints about having a partner greener than grass and being a show-off for solely her own ego not Shinji's affection.
Tough. This show is primarily about the Asuka/Shinji relationship. Accept it, move on, and grow as a person in the process. :-P
OMF wrote:The kiss certainly could be viewed as an act of "weakness" in one sence. Asuka let down all of her defences and confided her affections to him most intimately. She really opened up and got nothing for it. She likely berated herself endlessly for being so "stupid" as to kiss the donkan.
I know you've seen the extended mind-rape scene, and I know you know that what she said, and what she was thinking were quite different. She was angry, to my way of thinking,
only because Shinji did not reciprocate. It does not advance the debate to any noticable degree when people act disingenuous.
Mr. Tines wrote:Well, he was the one who was being shown to be clumsy, and ruining Asuka's gig - and he has the attitude that attracts condemnation. It also doesn't seem plausible under the circumstances for Hikari to blame either Rei for being helpful or Misato for being pragmatic.
Watch the scene again. I think Asuka may have actually been the first one to make a miss-step.
As I've noted before, there aren't any other boys of her own age that meet her absolute minimum requirement to be noticed. She desperately desires someone who will care for her - and all she gets is Shinji.
As I would note now, she has an entire school available to her, in every sense of the word. What exactly do you believe these requirements to be? She has rejected other partners in the course of the anime.
Alas, all her attempts to make the best of a bad situation make things worse, because it is never the Shinji-that-is that she tried to attract, but the pilot of her dreams who could sweep her off her feet.
Cite? I admit that she would rather Shinji be somewhat more proactive about wooing her, but I see no clear indication that she is unhappy with the fundamental person that he is. Just that she feels he needs more self-confidance.
Originally posted on: 14-May-2005, 01:56 GMT
. Will have to wait until next week after I attend to some critical obligations, though, but since this topic is so hawt right now, I think we'd all benefit from seeing what the script says. (I'm getting especially curious about any yummy details included in the P3II sequence...)
So....so do you think someone can have sexual feelings for someone else and still consider them a father fig.....urk!