Commentary: Series OP

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:14 am

Work in Progress here



Here's the first 50 seconds of the series opening; I'll post the rest over the next few days. I got these off a high-quality rip of Renewal Episode 01, by Anime-MX.

http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_01a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_01b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_01c.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_01d.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_02a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_02b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_03a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_03b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_04b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_04c.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_05a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_05b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_05c.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_05d.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_05e.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_06a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_06b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_06c.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_06d.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_07a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_07b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_07c.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_08a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_08b.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_09a.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_09b.jpg

(to comment on a particular shot, copy/paste the url [IMG tags optional], and say whatever you have to say)
Sharp-kun wrote:Any chance that for posts with loads of images like that you can put them in a zip file? Would be far easier to flick through them rather than viewing in browsers.

Here's the first batch zipped:
http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/OP/OP_set_1.zip

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 15:49 GMT

tv33 [ANF]
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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

The only thing I can think of is This to point out that the shadows are Rei and Asuka. I know it seems obvious, but I didn't notice it right away when I started watching Eva. Image

Also The Tree of Life. Something about how it's a tree from The Garden of Eden, whose fruit would give those who eat it immortality. Also that it come from the Kabbalah, an aspect of Jewish mysticism. Its paths represent aspects of God and divinity. All that jive....

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 18:46 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

Heh, before I saw you had started this thread, I took a pantsload of screenshots from the OP myself. Granted, my screenshots are crap, but I was going to put them into my standard 'arranged by cut number' format for easy referencing. I do think that if we're going to use screenshots, we might as well take them from the clean version so we can focus on the imagery without all of the staff credits being in the way.

But, anyway, here's the page as it currently stands. Should I bother finishing it, you think?

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 18:50 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

Any chance that for posts with loads of images like that you can put them in a zip file? Would be far easier to flick through them rather than viewing in browsers.

Reichu wrote:here's the page as it currently stands. Should I bother finishing it, you think?

I like that layout, so yes Image

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 18:57 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

I wrote a long list of comments, but my Internet Explorer didn't think you should be able to read them yet and thus crashed itself. This font may not reveal it, but I have huge urge to kill something right now. It is true what they say, Microsoft is evil.

I'll be back to business at least after Labor Day.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 19:54 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

Image
When you see that, you know you're in for something unusual.

Image
Those characters actually read "Shin Seiki Evangelion", but why did they name the show after a member of this forum? But seriously, Neon Genesis is what the show's creators wished it to be called in English, rather than simply translating Shin Seiki as New Century.

Image
These credits seem to indicate that Shinji's thoughts are full of naked women.

Originally posted on: 28-Apr-2004, 08:08 GMT

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Postby Incisivis [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

Silly Thought on Naked Female Figures:

I've always found it odd that the charcters are shown that way. Fanservice, probably, but I think it stands for the way in which some fans seem to relate to the female characters. Showing them naked and in shadow makes them appeaer vulnerable and mysterious.

Well, what?

I like the opening.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 21:17 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:15 am

Well, I've got over half of it done now. Same link as before, but for everyone's convenience: THE OPENING COMMENTARY PAGE IS HERE. Right now it includes mostly my own comments and various suggestions on things that we should say. I'll incorporate everybody else's comments/old & relevant posts into the page as we go along. (For the instances when two people say essentially the same thing... Well, we'll fight over who gets to say what later.) This is just a working draft, really; there are some ideas floating around for a page design that's somewhat cooler than what I'm using here.

When posting your comments, you can either link to SS's images or go by the cut number (as indicated on my page).

On another note, I think it would be cool if all of us chose avatars to appear next to our names whenever we say something. Probably 50x50 at most. Since these will be on a fairly static website, there's no changing your avvy on a whim, so choose carefully -- although I think I have a good idea of what tv33's and Dr. Nick's will be.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 21:33 GMT

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Postby felineki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

I'd like to point out that odd little "exo-tooth" Yui-sama has in the mouth-opening shot, in the upper jaw... I think that's the only time I've seen it depicted.

Also, in the shot of Yui's bloody hand, note that it actually moves a little... this is never seen in the show itself.

On the Nerv logo, the fig leaf is most likely used in reference to the aftermath of the "original sin" in Genesis, after which Adam and Eve, realizing shame for the first time, made themselves covering out of fig leaves. And the "God's In His Heaven" quote is from a poem by Robert Frost, I believe... will dig up more info on that later...

The round red thing that sorta looked like a core always reminded me of Leliel for some reason... maybe it's the funky lines.

A silhouette-ified version of one of the final frames of shot #11 is used in Episode 18.

Does anyone have any idea what the "Stop/Slow/Normal/Racing" bit on the energy display is supposed to mean?

I thought the silhouette in shot 4d looked more like Misato...

(Shot 02, re: Eyecatches) I rather liked the "Eyecatch #1" tune, though... (sounds best without the "Evangelion!" voice) but "Eyecatch #2" is extremely cheesy. It actually has a female voice singing (not saying, SINGING) "E-van-ge-li-ooon!!!" If Anno were to have gone through with using one of the musical eyecatches, he definitely should have chosn the first one.

::will add more comments here as I come up with them::

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:00 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF]
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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

Aah, the commentary, the eternal proof of our existance! Behold!
Sharp-kun wrote:I like that layout, so yes Image

Seconded. This layout works well for now. It's good to have the screencaps easily accessable on the background, instead of posting images durectly onto the forum. We can create something more 1337 later on, when true text-flooding starts. But let's use this to practise the basics with, shall we.

And Reichu, it is part of your arduous task as an editor to make me look like a native English-speaking alpha-geek in the finished version. So feel free to edit my ramblings a lot. Image

A couple of quick comments straight out of the bat:

- 001a: That "droplet hitting water's surface" -effect is used at least twice in EoE; I remember a thought being presented, that I might symbolize losing physical form (after all, Shinji went splat when Eva-01 awakened in ep.19). Let's see, yes, it is there just before the fugged-up playground-scene, and again just before the goodbye-scene. There might be more, I just did a very quick check.

- Usage of quality external sources like like The Legends of the Jews = gooood. Quoting sources like that gives this commentary a needed fake-academic taste. Image

- BTW, is there any kind of histrorical or mythological connection between the Tree of Life and Sepirothic System - if nothing else, they kinda look the same. I remember reading a thread about this issue ages ago somewhere, but I have no recollection whatsoever what was actually said in it...

- 001d: "Seems somewhat odd to me -- I thought water was Rei's domain?"
"Water" might represent something larger here - soup of life, maybe?

thewayneiac wrote:These credits seem to indicate that Shinji's thoughts are full of naked women.

Is there something unnatural in that?

- 004c: If Giant Nude Rei is mentioned here, shouldn't we also introduce our beloved abbreviation GNR?

- Speaking of Sepirothic System, I've read a certain theory, whose author believed that each of the system's ten circles (or whatever they're called) represents one of the series' main characters and his / her psychological characteristics (or something like that). I personally think that's over-interpreting it, but we might want to mention it here anyways. I'm currently unable to find the link to the site in question, can anybody help me here?

- 005: "What does phallic mean?" (ADVERTISE REDEATH!!!)

- 007: Eh, let's try to be natural with our jokes, shall we? When the moment is right, they will come spontaneously, without any forced effort.

- 011: No need to be careful with those spoilers, this is not for n00bs. Of course, mentioning Yui is not at all necessary yet, I just pointed out our guideline (we did agree on it, did we?).

- 026: "Aside from the fact that, in some traditions, they are associated with Lilith." Following that piece of information, maybe a some kind of warning how it is possible to interpret crap too deeply? Image

- 029: This isn't really commentary-related, but Reichu, notice how all these text captions are written with capital letters. I'm just pointing this out, because you at least at some point considered "EVA-01" a more correct way of writing it than "Eva-01", because it is written that way in the OP.

- 035: Some tidbits about the Nerv HQ, anyone?

- 036: I might be wrong here, but didn't Adam and Eve try to cover their private parts with fig leafs, when they had eaten the Fruit of Knowledge and they found themselves to be naked?

- 037b: WTF? There's a map in there?!? I haven't noticed that before...

Too lazy to proof-read. Suffer.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:23 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF]
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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

Agh, Felineki managed to mention the fig leaf part before me.
felineki wrote:I'd like to point out that odd little "exo-tooth" Yui-sama has in the mouth-opening shot, in the upper jaw... I think that's the only time I've seen it depicted.

- 017: Also, when Eva-01 opens her mouth, you can see these pieces of metal flying off. Does that mean her mouth is normally welded closed?

Does anyone have any idea what the "Stop/Slow/Normal/Racing" bit on the energy display is supposed to mean?

I believe it has to do with the Eva's battery system. 5 minutes of running time with normal consumption, and one minute with full power (as seen in ep.8.), probably all limiters released.

felineki wrote:And the "God's In His Heaven" quote is from a poem by Robert Frost, I believe...

Robert Browning.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:31 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

028 has something familiar about the pattern...

I've got tomorow off Uni, so I'll go through it all in detail then.

felineki wrote:Does anyone have any idea what the "Stop/Slow/Normal/Racing" bit on the energy display is supposed to mean?

Heartbeat? Thats what sprung to mind.

Dr. Nick wrote:- 017: Also, when Eva-01 opens her mouth, you can see these pieces of metal flying off. Does that mean her mouth is normally welded closed?[/color].

Thats the impression I've had with all the Eva's. Watch 03 when it goes crazy.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:36 GMT

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Postby felineki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

I knew it was Robert something-or-other... ::p

Apparently the poem is called "Pippa's Song", and goes a little something like this:

The year's at the spring,
And days's at the morn
Morning's at seven
The hillside's dew-pearl'd
The lark's on the wing
The snail's on the thorn
God's in His heaven --
All's right with the world!

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:38 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF]
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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

An extensive site about Robert Browning. There's a sub-section there named Browning's Religious Views. I don't know whether this has any relevance whatsoever, but the guy was from an Evangelical family.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:44 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

Dr. Nick wrote:And Reichu, it is part of your arduous task as an editor to make me look like a native English-speaking alpha-geek in the finished version. So feel free to edit my ramblings a lot. Image

P'shaw, I won't need to edit you THAT much. :P But, yes, a lot of editing will be going on; NO one will be spared my Revisory Wrath, least of all myself. That said, if anyone thinks any of my own comments are especially stupid, or whatever, please say so; there's a good chance I might second the idea to remove them.

- 001a: That "droplet hitting water's surface" -effect is used at least twice in EoE; I remember a thought being presented, that I might symbolize losing physical form (after all, Shinji went splat when Eva-01 awakened in ep.19). Let's see, yes, it is there just before the fugged-up playground-scene, and again just before the goodbye-scene. There might be more, I just did a very quick check.

Right after the harpies' Mass Orgy Of Death, as well. The "droplet" thing is probably something that shouldn't be analyzed TOO much in the OP; we can save some comments for later on, when the series starts getting psychedelic and Anno starts using the motif A LOT. Shin-seiki has some interesting ideas about the droplet/various other watery imagery, as well, that we exchanged via PM, which should certainly be shared at the appropriate time.

Usage of quality external sources like like The Legends of the Jews = gooood. Quoting sources like that gives this commentary a needed fake-academic taste. :P

Heh heh, I agree. My policy goes as follows: "Factual" stuff will only be included in the final commentary if we can actually locate quality references to support them. Otherwise, we'd be just as bad as the n00bs who proliferate stuff like the "barons of hell". Obviously, this means some of us need to spend some time in the libraries (using non-Internet sources adds to the aforementioned "fake-academic taste" Image), and considering how much stuff I need to do for this project, hopefully I won't be the only one going into Bookworm Mode.

- BTW, is there any kind of histrorical or mythological connection between the Tree of Life and Sepirothic System - if nothing else, they kinda look the same. I remember reading a thread about this issue ages ago somewhere, but I have no recollection whatsoever what was actually said in it...

Any volunteers for library research? Anyone?

"Water" might represent something larger here - soup of life, maybe?

And considering there's LCL in the Evas' cores (though there's some debate about exactly how it got there), this sounds about right.

- 004c: If Giant Nude Rei is mentioned here, shouldn't we also introduce our beloved abbreviation GNR?

Heh heh, will do.

- Speaking of Sepirothic System, I've read a certain theory, whose author believed that each of the system's ten circles (or whatever they're called) represents one of the series' main characters and his / her psychological characteristics (or something like that). I personally think that's over-interpreting it, but we might want to mention it here anyways. I'm currently unable to find the link to the site in question, can anybody help me here?

That probably would be a good site to reference...

(ADVERTISE REDEATH!!!)

Oh, don't worry, we will... Image Though I think we should probably save the "What does phallic mean?" quote for when one of us actually uses "phallic" in the commentary instead of having it come out of nowhere.

- 007: Eh, let's try to be natural with our jokes, shall we? When the moment is right, they will come spontaneously, without any forced effort.

Good point. :delete:

- 011: No need to be careful with those spoilers, this is not for n00bs. Of course, mentioning Yui is not at all necessary yet, I just pointed out our guideline (we did agree on it, did we?).

I figure I'd spare the "Yui-sama!!!" comments until episode #16 at least, since that's when it starts becoming obvious that Yui's in EVA-01. Spoilers are fine, sure, but I wouldn't want to confuse the poor n00bs who might read this and wonder why the he11 I'm calling EVA-01 "Yui". After all, there are some poor suckers who see the entire series and someone DON'T make the connection, so we'll make the connection for them when the time is right.

- 026: "Aside from the fact that, in some traditions, they are associated with Lilith." Following that piece of information, maybe a some kind of warning how it is possible to interpret crap too deeply? :doh:

lol Most certainly.

- 029: This isn't really commentary-related, but Reichu, notice how all these text captions are written with capital letters. I'm just pointing this out, because you at least at some point considered "EVA-01" a more correct way of writing it than "Eva-01", because it is written that way in the OP.

That's right! So, everybody, make sure you always write ANGELS and TOKYO-3. If you're not shouting, it's not accurate! But point taken, Dr. Nick. Write "Eva-01" if you so desire. Although we probably should agree on one or another for the commentary...

- 035: Some tidbits about the Nerv HQ, anyone?

Uhhh... how about you, 'ki?

- 036: I might be wrong here, but didn't Adam and Eve try to cover their private parts with fig leafs, when they had eaten the Fruit of Knowledge and they found themselves to be naked?

Yeah, something like that. Someone needs to look that one up, too. I'm rather curious about specifically why a fig leaf is used in NERV's logo -- and only half of one, at that.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:49 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:16 am

felineki wrote:I'd like to point out that odd little "exo-tooth" Yui-sama has in the mouth-opening shot, in the upper jaw... I think that's the only time I've seen it depicted.

Ah, you mean in the blue section? I hadn't noticed that...

Also, in the shot of Yui's bloody hand, note that it actually moves a little... this is never seen in the show itself.

Not in any of the shots corresponding to this one, no. But I recall a similar ... er, "reflex" occuring after Yui-sama regenerated her arm in #19.

The round red thing that sorta looked like a core always reminded me of Leliel for some reason... maybe it's the funky lines.

B-b-but [i]what does it mean[i]?!??!

A silhouette-ified version of one of the final frames of shot #11 is used in Episode 18.

Yeah, I was thinking of mentioning that... Whatever, I'll let you say it. Image

I thought the silhouette in shot 4d looked more like Misato...

Dddurrrr.... What does everyone else think about this one? I thought the proportions looked more on the "juvenile" side to me (not to mention the breasts aren't quite as mammoth as Misato's usually are).

(Shot 02, re: Eyecatches) I rather liked the "Eyecatch #1" tune, though... (sounds best without the "Evangelion!" voice) but "Eyecatch #2" is extremely cheesy. It actually has a female voice singing (not saying, SINGING) "E-van-ge-li-ooon!!!" If Anno were to have gone through with using one of the musical eyecatches, he definitely should have chosn the first one.

Heh-heh, we should probably reserve the eyecatch talk for when there's an actual eyecatch. We'll save this for Episode #01, eh?

I really need to go get some Real Life Work done. I'll finish the page and incorporate more comments later.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 22:57 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:17 am

Reichu wrote:Dddurrrr.... What does everyone else think about this one? I thought the proportions looked more on the "juvenile" side to me (not to mention the breasts aren't quite as mammoth as Misato's usually are).

I definitely think that is Misato, the hair looks more like hers, and we don't see Asuka's brain sensor things we see on the pilots' heads. (Why cant I think of the proper name Image ) The face looks more Misato-esque to me as well.

Also I always thought that picture 028 was the black moon as we see it in EoE. I don';t have anything to base this on, it';s just what I always thought, other then perhaps the fact that pictures of Kaworu and Rei are shown right after it. Though it does also look like a core.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 23:18 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:17 am

Reichu wrote:Dddurrrr.... What does everyone else think about this one? I thought the proportions looked more on the "juvenile" side to me (not to mention the breasts aren't quite as mammoth as Misato's usually are).

The breasts seem larger than in 4c, though that might be just me. Image Hair also seems more Misato like.

I would tend to go with Misato.

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 23:25 GMT

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Postby Charred Knight [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:17 am

thewayneiac wrote:Image
When you see that, you know you're in for something unusual.

Image
Those characters actually read "Shin Seiki Evangelion", but why did they name the show after a member of this forum? But seriously, Neon Genesis is what the show's creators wished it to be called in English, rather than simply translating Shin Seiki as New Century.

Image
These credits seem to indicate that Shinji's thoughts are full of naked women.

An interesting factoid is that the reason Neon is used instead of Neo is not because Anno didn't know the correct word but because his an avid collector of neon lights.

Also im totally lying, its probably because it should be Neo, but Gainax added an N making it Neon because they probably don't know english very well.

Also in the Asuka vs. Misato, I always thought it was Misato, just continuing from where we saw her last moving in a way that screams "look how smart this show is".

Originally posted on: 27-Apr-2004, 23:53 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:17 am

Comments on the commentary page:

1B: My comment about expecting something unusual was actually about the name "Gainax" that appears on screen at that point, which seems to be missing from your site, possibly a drawback of using the clean opening.

4D: I vote for Misato; it seems to be the same sillohuette from 4C.

28: It almost looks like some sort of map, but I'm not sure.

Originally posted on: 28-Apr-2004, 00:33 GMT


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