You think there's never going to be Asuka/Shinji ?

[LiLi]

User-iel wrote:

QM=Quantum Magic, referring to use of invasive telepathy in Synapsid's discussion above.

Oh! I see... I'm a bit of a noob myself so...

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That's why I say Rei is a real trooper. She'll die for the cause; over and over again.

She reminds me of Getter Robot's Musashi in that respect... Although I do think in some instances there was more to her sacrifice than her being a soldier. She seemed to have ulterior motives as well... IIRC, in Rebuild 2.0, when she pops up with the big phallic equivalent of a power up N^2 bomb, she clearly states she's piloting to spare Shinji from having to do it... Take that however you will...

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Interesting! the "I hate myselves" motive. Real clones mapping out as dissociative personality disorder? If this were to become script, how would it be subtly universalized, to mirror the establishment of identity period for young women in real life?

The conspicuous absence of Kyoko so far would seem to support that theory, don't you think? (Or at least, it does not contradict it...)

In that case though, I don't know whether we'll see many AsukaClones later on - maybe we'll only ever meet Asuka I, dissociative disorder and neurosis all included in one neat, pretty package.

One thing she seems to have in common with Sohryu would be, I think, the need to assert herself, to grow up and be indipendent... to establish herself and her worth as an individual.

Rather that simply a model of/for young women, I also read Asuka as the archetype of the Gaijin (as opposed to the typical Nihonjin), what with her focus on individualism over teamwork (cue Saha Battle). In this sense, perhaps she works as a counterpoint to Shinji and Rei, displaying the growing pains of someone raised within a more "modern" and "westernized" value system. Perhaps Anno thinks this is food for thought for contemporary Japanese society, largely Westenized on the surface and perhaps, in his opinion, growing increasingly apart from its traditional values since WWII? (Or so I hear...)

I'm wondering however, about Asuka's talk of being chosen for her talents rather than her connections... How does that fit into the I Think I'm a Clone Now Scenario? Did she have to best her clone-sisters in order to get her Captain Rank?

:EDIT: I'm thinking maybe she isn't a 'clone' exactly... perhaps she's a unique sample of a 'model' bioengineered for Eva piloting? In this sense, a doll - but a very limited edition.

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"Hmmpf! You stooges should understand it already - Under my flag, Eva lives free."<heelturn> Gee, that could get a thread later on, ya'think?

It deserves its own Arcadia, mate!

_________________
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Mirdautas vras!
(The Summoning)

AVATAR - ZA HYPOTHETICAL KITTEH, COLORED BY NemZ

[ThePRPD]

Would that be a good or bad twist, Asuka having/being a clone?

_________________
This has to be a joke. I can't see you honestly believing this to be true. - child of Lillith | Everyone is a lesbian in Evangelion. Even Gendo.

[Rock-Slash]

It would be a lame twist.

_________________
Because, to some extent, the concept of the music fan - the concept of the person who buys music and listens to music for the pleasure of music itself - is an outdated idea. ~Adam Clayton, U2 Bassist and sell out dick.

...Whatever. ~Mr. Leonheart

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

@Lili

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:EDIT: I'm thinking maybe she isn't a 'clone' exactly... perhaps she's a unique sample of a 'model' bioengineered for Eva piloting? In this sense, a doll - but a very limited edition.

- Maybe Anno is taking the manga Asuka and placing it in 2.0 only w/o [from what we have seen] Kyoko in the picture, as Asuka was a test tube baby in the NGE manga. In regards to you bioengineered for Eva piloting statement.

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[LiLi]

Great Genius Shinji-Sama wrote:

Maybe Anno is taking the manga Asuka and placing it in 2.0 only w/o [from what we have seen] Kyoko in the picture, as Asuka was a test tube baby in the NGE manga. In regards to you bioengineered for Eva piloting statement.

I was indeed thinking he might have "lifted" the concept from the manga and then altrered it significantly - that is, I'm thinking of Asuka having been bioengineered especially and specifically for a certain task (piloting the EVA and/or whatever the Destined Children are supposed to accomplish) rather than merely being the in-vitro product of high-quality gametes?

This would tie-in with the girls' -nami naming system.

(Unless of course the -nami thing is actually a codename of some sort and not the pilots' real name...)

_________________
Ghaash agh akûl – Nazgûl skoiz
Mirdautas vras!
(The Summoning)

AVATAR - ZA HYPOTHETICAL KITTEH, COLORED BY NemZ

[SaltyJoe]

User-iel wrote:

Yes, such that we might use the title and rename him (not)!Kaworu. Do you have an imagining of what might Kaworu use to insure no A/S, but without QM? It's more elegant if he can pretend to be lillin the whole time.

Well, there is always good old fashioned manipulation by words if he should want that. He can be convincing enough to make pretty much any of the characters, but especially the children do what he wants. Evan in ways that will leave te "victim" in the dark about the fact that they have been played. Gendo's intimidation is powerful, but Kaworu's smile is deadly.

Though, since the main relationship is R/S, and Kaworu has been crashing into that one so far (both movies ended with Rei/Shinji fluff *sorta*, then shift focus to Kaworu), i think putting an end to that one will be his main beef. Perhaps he will be the one who enlightens Shinji about the nature of certain things?

LiLi wrote:

:EDIT: I'm thinking maybe she isn't a 'clone' exactly... perhaps she's a unique sample of a 'model' bioengineered for Eva piloting? In this sense, a doll - but a very limited edition.

Funny, that's exactly what i thought Mari would be (if not an android).

In all fairness, the possibilities are open in pretty much every way: she may very well be just an ordinary girl who buried herself in piloting after some mighty fallout at home (she does mention that she had no one to take care of her since a very young age), and that doll maybe just a reminder of what not to go back to.

But then, there is Ritsuko's "valuable sample" comment. Who knows?

ThePRPD wrote:

Would that be a good or bad twist, Asuka having/being a clone?

Well, we can't really say. IMHO, twists "goodness" can only be measured by how well it is set up and how it effects the story. We have to see the twist in context to decide whether it is good or bad.

LiLi wrote:

This would tie-in with the girls' -nami naming system.

Then again, it is possible that the only thing the *nami's have in common is that they are female Eva pilots, and otherwise, they are wildly differing variations on that theme.

[LiLi]

SaltyJoe wrote:

Perhaps he will be the one who enlightens Shinji about the nature of certain things?

Oooh... I see what you did there...

SaltyJoe wrote:

Funny, that's exactly what i thought Mari would be (if not an android).

Yes, my own idea of this hypothetical scenario includes Mari being in a similar condition... *points to naming system considerations* *Makinami Shikinami Ayanami Makinami Shikinami Ayanami repeat...*

:EDIT:
Personally I have a hard time imagining Mari as an android... (maybe a cyborg instead? It would tie in nicely (or stupidly, your call ) with her piloting the cyborg-like Eva 05...), but of course everything is possible at this stage...?

Quote:

In all fairness, the possibilities are open in pretty much every way: she may very well be just an ordinary girl who buried herself in piloting after some mighty fallout at home (she does mention that she had no one to take care of her since a very young age), and that doll maybe just a reminder of what not to go back to.

Of course. We're just speculating on 'funnier' scenarios here...

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But then, there is Ritsuko's "valuable sample" comment. Who knows?

I originally interpreted that as relating to Asuka's having had contact of the first kind with an Angel but... :ponders:

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Then again, it is possible that the only thing the *nami's have in common is that they are female Eva pilots, and otherwise, they are wildly differing variations on that theme.

Obviously. I was just speculating on whether there could be some in-universe logic behind that naming scheme and how it would relate to my previous reasoning. (See e.g. codename thing)

_________________
Ghaash agh akûl – Nazgûl skoiz
Mirdautas vras!
(The Summoning)

AVATAR - ZA HYPOTHETICAL KITTEH, COLORED BY NemZ

[carla]

wow, it seems the shipping threads just ran off and left me in the dust over the course of the weekend... i have a couple pages to catch up on just here. *sigh*

EMK = the geektionary is my new best friend. LOL.

LiLi wrote:

even though since the premises are different this time around it may not be as much fun as in the NGE timeline...

at this point i just want to see it happen. not much we can do about opportunities lost in NGE. it might still be interesting to see in rebuild. first thought that came to mind is that she might take offense that kaworu seems to think shinji's happiness (or the fate of the world, you name it) is somehow in his hands-- but i think that would require several skips in development that probably won't happen. either way, i'd just like to see them finally interact.

LiLi wrote:

THE LACK OF EVIDENCE for Kyoko IS DISTURBING!

YES. i've been pulling at my hair so hard over that, that i think i'm going bald. vader smiley makes me happy, though.

also, LiLi said: I think if the Bardiel incident didn't leave any emotional scars crippling her ability to open up to others and enjoy life, a lot of the powerful irony from that whole sequence would be lost (I'm sorry Asuka...) --> yes, i definitely agree. it would be more powerful, despite how much i want for the poor girl to just catch a break.

Maybe it's just me, but RoE!Shinji also seems genuinely... nicer? and more attentive to others in positive ways. --> yeah, i got that feeling, too. at least with rei, that is. i wonder where the turning point was in 1.0, i think i missed it.


esselfortium said: And of course in Rebuild there's also the possibility of Mari to throw a new wrench into things --> something in that sentence made me LMAO so hard... "a new wrench." because obviously, we've had so many wrenches thrown at us already, mari joining in would just be a new one...

esselfortium wrote:

poor/forced writing in that direction, with Shinji somehow finding himself incapable of finding the words to tell her that there was nothing he could have done.

umm, sorry but isn't him not being able to put his feelings properly into words kind of textbook shinji? hmmm... i don't see why even rebuild shinji can't fall into that given the right push. it doesn't necessarily have to be bad writing IMO.


@darthikari, re: asuka taking kaworu's place-- whoo, i like that. not sure it could happen (LOL ritsuko's team missing such an important detail) but it would be heavy. sounds cool to me. (and whoever said we're making our own dark shoujo manga totally hit the nail on the head, it seems).


re: rei's "heart wanting to become one with ikari"-- i took that to mean, not that she didn't want to become one with him at all, just that that (her getting contaminated by the angel, possible 3I) wasn't it. call me simple but i'll stick by my first impression. *shrugs* whether you take that as romantic or just her embracing the human condition, that's your prerogative.


re: asuka as shinji's last resort-- i think she was, and i think asuka was right to be pissed about it. heh, i would've been, for sure. but then he did say during P3II he wanted to stay with her forever, and i think he meant that... i took it to mean he had figured out that he did emphatize with her on some level, which is basically what i was hoping. so in that sense, while i'm not happy she comes off as just his last resort because the world has turned on him, if it made him realize that they can relate to each other in some way, then that's fine by me.


re: asuka being bioengineered-- that's a very interesting idea, actually. i was only thinking she'd be a test-tube baby a-la manga or gakuen datenroku, but the bioengineering angle could work very well in rebuild. it could put a new spin on her emphasis on being alone... she could interpret the fact that she's bioengineered as meaning that she's actually unique. and in being unique she feels that she has to be better than everybody else (that's the whole point of engineering a person, to give them some sort of competitive advantage), and from that that she cannot relate to anybody else, thus leading her to isolate herself from everybody. it actually makes a lot of sense. and i was already thinking that mari had probably been tinkered with as well as an embryo, so who knows? i don't want her to be a clone, though. we've got enough of those. two cloned kids, two genetically-altered kids, and then shinji being picked last as always that works for me.


you guys... what if asuka doesn't get taken over by bardiel or a new angel, but actually is an angel to begin with, a-la-kaworu? there's been no foreshadowing although the fractured personality could be seen as a symptom, but coupling the idea of "contamination" with the fact that she may be bioengineered kind of makes you think about it, eh? like, why would they do that to begin with? they created rei and kaworu with 3I in mind, after all.

AND it would be one way for ritsuko & co. to overlook the possibility of her being an angel and releasing her only to have her wreak havoc later on-- i mean, they suspected kaworu in NGE because he was SEELE, and yet they still let him into terminal dogma... why would they suspect the german branch of engineering an angel? so long as they can't find a trace of bardiel in her mind they'd let her out, but perhaps her possession by bardiel woke something else up inside her... something they weren't actively looking for...

ok, i've officially been watching too much sci-fi now.


re: the whole jung body/heart/soul thing-- eh. they all wanted to be one in body, mind and soul with shinji at some point. it's why they all became soup in the end. (*is bluffing to cover up the fact that she's hopelessly lost and can't relate this to the topic at hand*)


@user-iel-- i cringe at the thought of shinji having anything of chuck norris'. but the comment had me LMAO for like an hour


@saltyjoe-- Hmm, this thread has been derailed by Nagisa-kun. --> doesn't that always happen, though?

[esselfortium]

carla: I see your point about Shinji being Shinji, but it still doesn't make sense to me for Shinji to let a potential friendship/relationship/business partnership/whathaveyou get totally ruined because he can't just say "I didn't do it" and every other character in the know would rather completely fuck with his head instead of just explaining what actually occurred....and doesn't he usually try to shift the blame for bad things off of himself anyway? (see also: Shinji meets Touji for the first time)

If he cared enough to get over his anxieties enough to attempt to reconcile the perception of himself with someone he had just barely met, I imagine he'd least attempt to do the same after the dummy system nearly kills a friend/associate with "his" own hands. :P

Maybe it is just optimism on my part, but I can't help but feel like it'd be somewhat of a copout for neither Shinji nor any other relevant character to be able to get this relatively basic concept across. If Asuka is still piloting or in any way involved with events to do with the other pilots, it wouldn't make a lot of sense for NERV to let her keep thinking that one of her fellow pilots beat the living tar out of her. Though considering Mari's entrance and the three-evas-per-country agreement...oh dear :<

This thread is depressing

_________________
A Terrible Flood - Cumulonimbus antagonistic debut album (2007)
Seventeen More Times - Followup album coming someday

NGE: The Cutting Room Floor, a fanfic by Lucretius and myself about the inevitable insanity of the off-days we didn't get to see.

The EGF version is more like "Shinji, an evil transsexual rapist who is incapable of love, learned nothing from his experiences and died as soon as the credits rolled." - Lucretius

[User-iel]

@LiLi -

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bit of a noob myself so...

I reject. You have opened your heart to Eva.

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states she's piloting to spare Shinji from having to do it... Take that however you will...

O.K., I did. But that is in the Rei/Shinji Aquarium thread.

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Asuka as the archetype of the Gaijin

This idea I need to consider more. I can immediately identify several other characters with westernized traits that lead to/from failure.

Quote:

Did she have to best her clone-sisters

You are, perhaps a fan of Battle Angel?

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bioengineered for Eva piloting?

Did I mention Newtype before? That is exactly the idea, from Gundam, used many places since.

Quote:

Obviously. I was just speculating on whether there could be some in-universe logic behind that naming scheme and how it would relate to my previous reasoning. (See e.g. codename thing)

yes, but Thats what He wants you to think! I refuse to be trolled until I become a real - life Kensuke. Anno doesn't respect OCD / otaku folks very much, perhaps? Someone set us up the Bomb!

@ThePRPD - Can it become really awesome? I think so! 'The clone who refused to be a clone' 'Can you love me if there is no me' 'What do you mean "Mama is inside me"! Anta no Baka!' If she can't be sure of her actual individuality, maybe she actively denies Everyone's individuality. - there are many more.

@SaltyJoe -

Quote:

i think putting an end to that one will be his main beef. Perhaps he will be the one who enlightens Shinji about the nature of certain things?

FULL POINT - That would work great. Kaworu's assualt on the Reiquarium to get Shinji to reject Rei.

Quote:

and that doll maybe just a reminder of what not to go back to.

Ah... Let me rework this for clone!Asuka. Maybe she was raised with a clave of her sisters, and as toddlers she either witnessed or caused the death of the one who owned the doll.

@carla -

Quote:

(and whoever said we're making our own dark shoujo manga totally hit the nail on the head, it seems).

Would you like to lead the effort? This needs an author. Even if only as text. There seem to be a few of us, as I, may contribute.

Quote:

(that's the whole point of engineering a person, to give them some sort of competitive advantage), and from that that she cannot relate to anybody else,

O.K., then to proceed, how will Shinji react? will he need to open his mind, or hers?
Or... If it turns out she IS a WEAPON, he'll have Kensuke stuck to her like a plugsuit!
Angel!Asuka? Probably only in fanfic. Sort of extreme to my thinking. But maybe if.... nah.
Humor? Hai, dozo.

@esselfortium -

Quote:

This thread is depressing

Really? I'm reading people shining with life, striving to build a RoE3.0 that will be stronger, better and faster than ever before!!! To make a better omelet, you'll have to break some better eggs.

[LiLi]

User-iel wrote:

I reject. You have opened your heart to Eva.

But you... you can have happiness outside of Eva!
Seriously though - I'm no noob to Eva, that's for sure, but I'm a noob to posting here...

Quote:

O.K., I did. But that is in the Rei/Shinji Aquarium thread.

I'm confused now. I'll go back and re-read that...

Quote:

I can immediately identify several other characters with westernized traits that lead to/from failure.

I think I had a small ramble on the subject in the Shinjiko Thread. I can dig it out and polish it maybe, if you'd care?

Quote:

You are, perhaps a fan of Battle Angel?

Ummm... you mean Gunm?

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Did I mention Newtype before? That is exactly the idea, from Gundam, used many places since.

I think you have - but weren't the Newtypes originally a "natural" evolution of Man in Space (before SEED started tinkering with Coordinators and the like...)

You'll have to be forgiving - I haven't had a chance to watch a decent version of the old Gundam in years, partly due to copyright issues in my country.

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yes, but Thats what He wants you to think! I refuse to be trolled until I become a real - life Kensuke. Anno doesn't respect OCD / otaku folks very much, perhaps?

OCD? (Sorry, there I go again... )

INOERITE?? You might have a point there! But I sort of like being trolled. So...

Quote:

FULL POINT - That would work great. Kaworu's assualt on the Reiquarium to get Shinji to reject Rei.

...Can I take this? I wanted Rei and Kaworu to interact more, in a positive, siblin-esque fashion this time around...

Quote:

Ah... Let me rework this for clone!Asuka. Maybe she was raised with a clave of her sisters, and as toddlers she either witnessed or caused the death of the one who owned the doll.

SEE? YOU DO LIKE BEING TROLLED! Accept it. Open your heart to Eva...

Say... How about a Herlock vs Cpt. Asuka face-off? Huh?

ALL IN THE GLORIOUS TRADITION OF OTAKU NO VIDEO OF COURSE!

Quote:

@carla - Quote: (and whoever said we're making our own dark shoujo manga totally hit the nail on the head, it seems). Would you like to lead the effort? This needs an author. Even if only as text. There seem to be a few of us, as I, may contribute.

I think that was me, saying that to you, Useriel-kun... You do seem to have the right mindset to pull it off!


@esselfortium - Here, here... it's nothing some miso soup can't take care of...

_________________
Ghaash agh akûl – Nazgûl skoiz
Mirdautas vras!
(The Summoning)

AVATAR - ZA HYPOTHETICAL KITTEH, COLORED BY NemZ

[carla]

@esselfortium-- oh, believe me, how i wish he would. i'm just saying, considering this is shinji, he probably won't. he did feel sort of guilty, didn't he, in NGE? (he does say when he's throwing his tantrum of massive property damage that his father tried to kill asuka with his hands. from the emphasis i'm thinking he may feel a little bit of guilt, at least).

or if he somehow does manage to explain that it was his father's fault, it's just like asuka not to accept it anyway (remember arael?), at least not until something major happens.

this thought just ran through my head, but i think asuka could have a problem with shinji just... not doing anything to help her. i mean, he wasn't in control of his eva when it bit down on the dummy plug, he didn't directly hurt her, but he didn't actively do anything to stop bardiel either. he just stepped back, content to let bardiel strangle the life out of him. maybe, if shinji had done something, perhaps tried to force the entry plug out before tearing unit 03 into shreds, maybe asuka wouldn't have ended up in critical condition. but he didn't, he was perfectly content with the idea that he'd rather die than harm one hair on asuka's head... and perhaps asuka would think it was just a baaaaad decision on his part, and from that manage to pin all the blame on him.

i don't know, again i'm thinking in terms of NGE asuka when i don't really know if rebuild asuka would react this way, but... it's not impossible, i guess.

and awwww, i don't mean to be depressing! just... expanding upon all possibilities. i blame anno, he made me this way.

User-iel wrote:

Maybe she was raised with a clave of her sisters, and as toddlers she either witnessed or caused the death of the one who owned the doll.

yandere asuka went batshit on the other asukas and it was an utter bloodbath! that's kinda cool. and us EVA fans are kinda messed up, haha.

also, re: the misadventures of EVA as a dark shoujo manga-- i would (teehee!), but i'm afraid i don't have much time and it would probably end up being more geeky than you'd expect, coming from me i'm instead going to point you in LiLi's direction, perhaps she'll be interested.

re: how would shinji react to bioengineered asuka?-- i don't think he'd particularly think much of the fact that she was "made" and not "engendered." (hey, at least she's not a clone of his mother!). if anything, he's living proof that even though you're "made" for something doesn't necessarily mean you're the best at it or that it's the only important thing-- and that, it seems, helped rebuild asuka start to figure out some of her issues, rather than make her go off the deep end like she did in NGE.

so yeah, asuka's the one that would really need to work on that (she's already started to, it seems), and i think it would work because it would be a way for her to deal with her issues by herself. she can see shinji and see through him that things aren't the way she originally assumed them to be, but she's still not changing for him, she's changing for herself. or at least that's the way i interpreted it.

i'm suddenly flashing back to the S/A bed scene in 2.0-- and it's interesting, because in NGE asuka wanted to be the best, and as such pushed people away because she a) wanted people to notice her because her mother wouldn't and b) didn't want to care about other people and then get hurt. and even from her initial appearance, her arrogant attitude was always followed by a little voice in my head whispering "she's just covering up her true fears."

in rebuild, for some reason i just get the feeling that she genuinely believed she was supposed to be on a different level (which would fit with the bioengineering theory) and couldn't understand how anyone would have any other motivation for piloting eva other than the fact that they could. the fact that you can pilot means that you were born to do it, and she can't conceive any other possible reason behind it. so in a sense, shinji's words about how he's piloting for his father's approval not only breaks down her image of him as "the pilot chosen because he's the commander's son" but also completely shatters her belief of eva as a goal-- it becomes an instrument to reach a goal, instead. and to someone who's had nothing but eva her whole life (thinking of the bioengineering theory would mean she didn't even have kyoko as a motivation), that's THE huge realization to make. i mean, just look at rei after all. so, it was a simple conversation but it may have easily rocked her world completely.

and getting a new outlook on life makes her happier. and thus thankful to baka shinji for inadvertedly pointing her in that direction. which in turn makes her start to notice him as a person. seems like an alright progress to me.

of course, this can all be shot to hell depending on the outcome of bardiel.

nevermind, i just took that bio-E theory and ran with it. heh. i just kind of really like it. i know all of this has probably been said already... i'm ranting, i know.


@LiLi-- I'm no noob to Eva, that's for sure, but I'm a noob to posting here... --> says the girl with almost 850 posts...

[SaltyJoe]

carla wrote:

this thought just ran through my head, but i think asuka could have a problem with shinji just... not doing anything to help her. i mean, he wasn't in control of his eva when it bit down on the dummy plug, he didn't directly hurt her, but he didn't actively do anything to stop bardiel either.

Well, rational thinking was never Asuka's forte, and i think this trait is carried over to Rebuild, but depending on how much she remembers/how much they tell her about what happened, Shinji might come out pretty low on Shikinami's "To HATE!" list. Consider:

1. Misato, cause she was the one who gave her the offer to pilot 03
2. Ritsuko, cause she was the one who should have made sure that nothing goes wrong, and she failed
3. Her own Euro people and the Vatican Treaty, for making her loose Eva-02
4. Nerv as a whole: depending on how her "quarantine" is handled, she might view theme as jailors. Another negative for Ritsuko, too
5. Rei, cause her stupid dinner was part of her motivation. Also, "Why didn't 00 got the freeze up? STUPID FAVORITE!"
6. Gendo, cause he is Gendo
7. Mari, cause she exists

So though i doubt she will be lovey-dovey with Shinji, it will probably be part of a general disdain for everybody. That is, if she will react this way.

[Sailor Star Dust]

"Everyone! I hate everyone!"

Yeah I can see Bardi being the cause of any bitterness, but we'll see.

_________________
~Take care of yourself, I need you~
[FGP Profile | A/S English doujin | FF.net & DarkScribes | MAL | Youtube]
"I don't want to talk about this again. I don't care about your opinions. I don't care about my own opinions. But at least I'll save Ayanami! For sure!"~NaveryW
SSD wonders why she's been wasting her life on EGF for the past 4 years. Then again, this IS Eva.~08/13/2010

[Sailor Star Dust]

"Everyone! I hate everyone!"

Yeah I can see Bardi being the cause of any bitterness, but we'll see.

_________________
~Take care of yourself, I need you~
[FGP Profile | A/S English doujin | FF.net & DarkScribes | MAL | Youtube]
"I don't want to talk about this again. I don't care about your opinions. I don't care about my own opinions. But at least I'll save Ayanami! For sure!"~NaveryW
SSD wonders why she's been wasting her life on EGF for the past 4 years. Then again, this IS Eva.~08/13/2010

[User-iel]

@LiLi - Thanks, please just link me the page if you don't think you'll be banned for that in your post here. Shiny!

Quote:

Gunm

Probably Last Order, to be precise.

Quote:

Newtype

I don't have good detailed memory for Gundam, sorry, you have had to correct me.

Quote:

...Can I take this?

'Tolerate' or 'Fanfic' or 'Illustrate' or ---? What is it I am saying Yes to? Don't worry too much about me hiding behind copyright law

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SEE? YOU DO LIKE BEING TROLLED! Accept it

There are tiiimes when all the worlds asleep / these questions are too deep.. Well I am here, 5 years late, but I'm here.
A face off?!? Whooaa! first we need a trip to the Graveyard level in Terminal Melder, where she will meet the genius who helps her restore AND customize unit02...

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I think that was me, saying that to you, Useriel-kun...

Yes, a fine memory you have. In fact, much better than my writing ability. I am likley unable to embark on that journey, but I can believe in the ones who can. Oh, and I can backseat drive a rough draft just fine. But I'm not like BobBQ or our other authors, and the size of the denial effort would stop every other interest activity for me. I can, however show our chosen hero the way...

@carla - Go Carla!

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asuka could have a problem with shinji just... not doing anything to help

This picks up the thread from NGE well. I can see this in the future, timing depends on whether she has her own memories, or learns secondhand.

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EVA as a dark shoujo manga

Thank you for considering. Remember - Geek is part of the name here. And if that's The Eva Monkey's story, I'm sticking to it.
You make designers!Asuka seem to be less extreme, and a workable idea. Perhaps even an enhancement.

@SSD -

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"Everyone! I hate everyone!"

Classic, of course. So when she gets this way again, we can draw parallels to her narrow world view::only one eye.

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Hi! Let's all make a pyramid in the sandbox...

[carla]

@saltyjoe-- oh, she would definitely hate the world, yes. (LOL, mari for existing. you kill me ). but i think shinji would be high on the list by sheer virtue that he was there inside his eva when the situation was actually happening. and also, as much as i'm trying to be "rational" here, i think for asuka herself it wouldn't be much of a rationalization-- it would be more of an "up and go" instinctive reaction.


@user-iel-- *tips hat off*

[ThePRPD]

I think if there is a clone of Asuka in 3.0/4.0 it won't be Asuka II. It'll be Asuka Shoryu. Naaaaaaaah.

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This has to be a joke. I can't see you honestly believing this to be true. - child of Lillith | Everyone is a lesbian in Evangelion. Even Gendo.

[Hiten777]

TheGoose wrote:

Quote: It's pretty obvious he considers Rei a friend just like Asuka: Asking about her health, making her lunch, saving her after Zer eats Eva-00, etc. But, the difference is that Shinji says outloud that he considers Asuka a friend. Not anything else, but a friend. Its different from EOE where Shinji says that he wants to be with Asuka forever. Its simple to see that he likes her in a romantic sense. In Rebuild, however, Shinji just calls Asuka a friend. Thats way different than what he said in EOE. I know that Shinji cares about Rei, but there hasn't been any hint to how he cares about her. Does he like her as a friend or something more?

I think it takes watching 2.0 more than once to see how the two interact with each other. It took asuka's supposed death to make shinji quit piloting, but the same can be said about when touji was injured, but it took him seeing Rei devoured by Zeruliel that he went back on his notion to not pilot again. Rei seems to be very important to him in a sense that he says he doesn't care what happens to him or the world but that he only wants to save Rei alone. This implies that Rei is someone he can't stand to lose to the point that he even tells her that (despite her saying that she is replacable, while in the angel) there is no ayanami except for her. Also the embrace towards the end that both share after shinji rescues her, shows that both are relieved to be able to be together again.

Shinji thanks her for her efforts for trying to get him and his father to get reacquainted, where she shows that she feels sad that she couldn't make him happy, but he even says that he's okay with how things are implying that it's in the past and that he's just glad that she's alive and okay.
It takes putting yourself in Shinji's shoes to get the full range of his view on rei. Think of yourself having a bad relationship with someone close to you and then you meet the person who has a good relationship with that person (Rei). You find that after you both go through an ordeal you get to a point where you both come to a good understanding of each other. Eventually you desire to get to know that (Rei) better in hopes that you both can become friends and try to get (Rei) to open up, afterwards (Rei) opens up gradually even inviting you to spend quality time with the person you have bad relations with (Gendo). Naturally you feel happy at the thought of being with (Rei) but nervous about being (Gendo). (As the audience we know that it is Rei's desire to have Shinji and Gendo get on good terms so that both can be happy, though other characters imply that it is more for Shinji's sake, which it most likely is as evidence by her elevator explanation to Asuka) Anyway, everything doesn't go as planned and due to an incident you and (Gendo) get even farther apart, causing you to not want to have anything to do with (Gendo). After leaving, something comes up where (Rei) gets in a dire situation, naturally you understand that (Rei) did all that in the hopes that you and (Gendo) can understand each other.

From here u need to look at another cenario. Picture the person who has made the most influential moment in your life, someone you can't stand to lose no matter what, and they're in a dire situation where their suvival depends on what you do. If that person means so much to you then you'd do everything you can to save them.

In this case, Shinji does everything like in the original series up to where unit 1 loses power, but it takes a turn when Shinji says "Give Ayanami back" and forces eva into a semi berserker and proceeds to win, but then says "I don't care what happens to this world, nor myself...But Ayanami...Her alone...I'm going to save her." Here we go through the whole thing where Shinji busts in and says that Rei is the only Rei and saves her.

Misato's messages also play an important role as she tells him to do it for himself and his own beliefs, and in this case he does meaning that it's his desire and beliefs in saving rei that he pilots so furiously. His determination also is shown as he's straining himself to break through the core to get Rei back. If this doesn't show something then why would it take place. Wow that was a mouthful.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Please read the rules since you haven't, it's very hard to make any sense out of your above post. Paragraphs are good.

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~Take care of yourself, I need you~
[FGP Profile | A/S English doujin | FF.net & DarkScribes | MAL | Youtube]
"I don't want to talk about this again. I don't care about your opinions. I don't care about my own opinions. But at least I'll save Ayanami! For sure!"~NaveryW
SSD wonders why she's been wasting her life on EGF for the past 4 years. Then again, this IS Eva.~08/13/2010

[Sailor Star Dust]

Please read the rules since you haven't, it's very hard to make any sense out of your above post. Paragraphs are good.

_________________
~Take care of yourself, I need you~
[FGP Profile | A/S English doujin | FF.net & DarkScribes | MAL | Youtube]
"I don't want to talk about this again. I don't care about your opinions. I don't care about my own opinions. But at least I'll save Ayanami! For sure!"~NaveryW
SSD wonders why she's been wasting her life on EGF for the past 4 years. Then again, this IS Eva.~08/13/2010

[Alaska Slim]

Hiten777 wrote:

wurd.

I read all of that... twice, and I still didn't get anything beyond "Shinji considers Rei an important person", was that all you were getting at?

Sailor Star Dust wrote:

Please read the rules since you haven't, it's very hard to make any sense out of your above post. Paragraphs are good.

Yup, broke that rule too, although in a different manner than a "wall of text", ah, memories.

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