Is The S^2 Organ In The Core?

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Is The S^2 Organ In The Core?

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:57 pm

Ok time to reopen an old can of worms.

We know that the Eva Core's are not their S^2 organs/engines. We know this for the simple reason that we see Unit-01's core, before it even has an S^2 organ.
[URL=http://www.imageshack.us]Image[/URL]

So what about the S^2 organ? Well, let's look at what we know. Here's something that came up earlier, courtesy of Reichu.
Reichu wrote:There are implications in the show that the S2 was salvaged from Shamshel. However, it's essentially spelled out in the Renewal version of episode #05. Remember the scene where they are dismantling Shamshel? Here's some of the babble in the background (bold-facing my own):

Man 2 "The 2nd German Branch’s analysis are scheduled to arrive within 5 minutes. Director in the S^2 block, wait for orders.]
Woman "Contact group 3. Place extreme priority on recovering the existing core."
Man 2 "The power analysis unit from Germany’s 2nd Branch has now arrived."


As we later find out, the Germans are the ones who "developed" the S^2 sample sent to the US to be "installed" into EVA-04.

OK. So an S^2 organ was most likely recovered from Shamshel. However when we look back on this scene, we can clearly see that Gendou and Fuyutsuki themselves have arrived onsite to inspect the core(1). And they are quite interested (2).
Image
But look at the dialouge here.
Kozou: This is the core... How is the rest?
Engineering Staff: The degradation is very serious. It isn't suitable
for a sample.

Gendo: No problem. Discard all other parts.

What other parts are they referring to? Are they speaking of the rest of the core, or the rest of the angel? Even if it is the former, Gendou's comments seems to suggest that this sample before him is all he is interested in.

So, if the S^2 organ was recovered from Shamshel, and Gendou was only interested in Shamshel's Core, can we conclude that the Angels, and by extension the Eva's, S^2 organs are present in their Core's?
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Postby Defectron » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:07 pm

thats where I always figured they were because the cores do seem to be related to their power sources. If the cores destroyed, with the possible exception of the MP evas all power is lost. Also Saciels core seemed to be the source of his self destruct explosion.
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Postby DatDude » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:13 pm

seeing as we get a look at eva one with no armor, before it gets an s2 orgen I say this is the core.

Went the 1 does get an s2 core it does so after eating the face-looking-part of an angel. SO we can guss that the s2 is either located behind the face or is the facc thing, but thats only a guss.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:36 pm

Defectron wrote:thats where I always figured they were because the cores do seem to be related to their power sources. If the cores destroyed, with the possible exception of the MP evas all power is lost.


How are they an exception?

Also Saciels core seemed to be the source of his self destruct explosion.


True, but so does EVA-00's, and she didn't have a S^2.

DD wrote:seeing as we get a look at eva one with no armor, before it gets an s2 orgen I say this is the core.


The argument being made is that the core is a CONTAINER for the S^2, not that it is the same thing.

Went the 1 does get an s2 core it does so after eating the face-looking-part of an angel. SO we can guss that the s2 is either located behind the face or is the facc thing, but thats only a guss.


That's what I thought at first, until it hit home that the face is the LAST THING she eats. We don't see precisely what she is consuming beforehand, but her maw is focused much further down Zeruel's body (ooo laa laa) when Ritsuko says that she is taking the S^2 in.

To repeat an experiment the late Knives of ANF once did...

Image

Here we can see that she is pulling on Zeruel's face. Also, I have taken the liberty of circling the core for us.

The cut where she begins to feed is a direct continuation of C349, above. The elements are all in the exact same places. Notice the positions of Zeruel's face and core.

Image

Image

His face is untouched. But HER face appears to be in his nuclear region.

I'm not quite sure how one takes a bite out of a core, but I guess I should not question the capabilities of those pearly whites...
Last edited by Reichu on Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bp32 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:01 pm

I agree with Reichu that it is more likely that the core holds the S2, but that does not mean the Eva's have one just because they have the core--remember, the Eva's are copies of the Angels, so it is entirely possible that these copies were incomplete (as they seem to be), and much of what was copied was done so without fully knowing how to copy the rest (i.e. they copied the position and structure of the core without being able to copy and 'install' the S2 organs).
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Postby DatDude » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:12 pm

IF thats true is makes the entire eating the angel scene even more disturbing.

The core holds the sole, does that mean Unit one ate the angels sole or at least tore it apart with its teeth to get to the core.

GOd damn thats a rough way to go.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:31 pm

bp32 wrote:I agree with Reichu that it is more likely that the core holds the S2, but that does not mean the Eva's have one just because they have the core


That is not what was being suggested at any point.

The core just happens to be a container -- of both the soul and, it would seem, the S^2. EVA-01 was born with a core, but it was but an empty vessel initially, that Yui saw to it was properly filled.

--remember, the Eva's are copies of the Angels, so it is entirely possible that these copies were incomplete (as they seem to be), and much of what was copied was done so without fully knowing how to copy the rest (i.e. they copied the position and structure of the core without being able to copy and 'install' the S2 organs).


I posted my own theory in another thread:

Reichu wrote:My own theory is that the S^2 was deliberately engineered out of the earlier Evas. Considering they were derived from Adam, same as the Angels, one would expect them to have this most critical angelic organ, no? But as we know, the S^2 is also not only dangerous in its own right, it's the last thing you want to make available to a giant organism you don't know whether or not you'll be able to control. The umbilical cables have disadvantages, but by handicapping these entities and making them reliant on their masters for energy (most of the time, anyway), it provides a convenient failsafe if they don't do as they are told.

With the harpies, presumably the "enslavement technology" had advanced to a point where Seele felt assured their flying monkeys would do as told. They needed the S^2s if they were to do their jobs, anyway -- I suppose it was worth the risk for the old geezers.


DD wrote:The core holds the sole, does that mean Unit one ate the angels sole or at least tore it apart with its teeth to get to the core.


Um, if you theoretically wanted to eat an Angel's soul, you would have to tear the core apart FIRST...

Incidentally, I think there is any "soul-eating" going on there; it would only be possible, I think, if Yui ate the core whole. Once the core is broken, death follows because the soul departs from the body -- in Angelic lifeforms, life is reliant on the soul, while in Lilim, death occurs with the soul still trapped within.

:sings: "Where do the souls of Angels go? Nobody knows..."

What I really want to know is how Yui managed to take the first bite. Look at how huge Zer's core is, and how far her jaws can arc open, and the problem inherent in taking a bite out of a huge round object (not to mention a very tough one) should be obvious... They probably had the feeding occur offscreen because they couldn't figure it out, either. :P
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Postby DatDude » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:35 pm

either way gross come to mind on a physical and meta-physical level, and just in time for my dinner. :oops:
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Postby Soluzar » Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:59 pm

Reichu wrote:What I really want to know is how Yui managed to take the first bite. Look at how huge Zer's core is, and how far her jaws can arc open, and the problem inherent in taking a bite out of a huge round object (not to mention a very tough one) should be obvious... They probably had the feeding occur offscreen because they couldn't figure it out, either. :P


Have you never eaten a coconut? She smashed it into pieces, first, and then ate the sweet, sweet biomass inside.
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Postby bp32 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:00 pm

Reichu wrote:
bp32 wrote:I agree with Reichu that it is more likely that the core holds the S2, but that does not mean the Eva's have one just because they have the core


That is not what was being suggested at any point.

The core just happens to be a container -- of both the soul and, it would seem, the S^2. EVA-01 was born with a core, but it was but an empty vessel initially, that Yui saw to it was properly filled.


Wait, I don't see what the difference is between these two statements. I was saying just what you said--the core is just a container--possibly for the S2 and/or the soul....

As for eating the soul, I am not sure how you would eat something that is intangible...
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Postby Soluzar » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:02 pm

bp32 wrote:As for eating the soul, I am not sure how you would eat something that is intangible...


In the world of NGE, souls have different properties than in the real world, and so you should not assume that souls are intangible. They may be, I'm not sure, but in the real world, souls do not have a physical manifestation at all, whereas in EoE, they are visible, at least.
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Postby bp32 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:58 pm

Soluzar wrote:
bp32 wrote:As for eating the soul, I am not sure how you would eat something that is intangible...


In the world of NGE, souls have different properties than in the real world, and so you should not assume that souls are intangible. They may be, I'm not sure, but in the real world, souls do not have a physical manifestation at all, whereas in EoE, they are visible, at least.


Visible in the minds of people maybe--plus, since when did something have to be tangible to be visible? I can see a rainbow, doesn't mean I can touch it....
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:28 pm

Reichu wrote:My own theory is that the S^2 was deliberately engineered out of the earlier Evas. Considering they were derived from Adam, same as the Angels, one would expect them to have this most critical angelic organ, no? But as we know, the S^2 is also not only dangerous in its own right, it's the last thing you want to make available to a giant organism you don't know whether or not you'll be able to control. The umbilical cables have disadvantages, but by handicapping these entities and making them reliant on their masters for energy (most of the time, anyway), it provides a convenient failsafe if they don't do as they are told.

This might not really fit. If the S^2 organs were simply removed from the Eva's at some point, then why would Nerv need to recover a sample from the angels.

I'd surmise at this point that Nerv's ability to clone adam and create the angels extended to all aspects of the beast except both the core and S^2 organ. Bear with me.

The core is first and foremost a container or vessel for the soul, and secondly, if we are correct, the location of the Eva/Angel's S^2 organ. Now we know Nerv does not have the ability to simple create a soul. Like gold, they seemingly cannot form it from baser metals
Ritsuko: Yes, that's a human.
Eva, which did not have a soul ab initio,
now that has a human soul.

But the core is the seat of the soul within the Eva. So perhaps without a soul, the core simply would not form/grow/mature and thus neither would the S^2 organ. The core as a kind of kernel of the entire Eva, need its genesis in a soul present, something Nerv simply couldn't provide.

So what about the Eva's actual cores. They certainly have them. I'd submit, that these cores are in fact artificial. Developed, created and installed in the Eva's by Nerv to house a soul. The souls of course are provided by the hapless beings that become trapped within.
Naturally as Nerv cannot produce an S^2 organ at this time, these atrifical cores are devoid of this fantastic power source and thus so are the Eva's.

I believe the image shots flashed up during Ritsuko's above speech in #23 show an image of Unit-01 connected to Lilith. In this image, it looks to me like Unit-01 core is being operated on. Is it being installed?
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:31 pm

bp32 wrote:Wait, I don't see what the difference is between these two statements. I was saying just what you said--the core is just a container--possibly for the S2 and/or the soul....


Yeah, but in responses to this thread, people have been jumping to point out that core and S2 are not the same thing, even though at no point in this discussion was anyone trying to say this was the case...!

Soluzar wrote:Have you never eaten a coconut? She smashed it into pieces, first, and then ate the sweet, sweet biomass inside.


Yeah, but watch the episode... She never lays a finger on Zer's core, she just sticks her face straight in! No preparatory work or anything.
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Postby Soluzar » Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:47 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:
Reichu wrote:My own theory is that the S^2 was deliberately engineered out of the earlier Evas. Considering they were derived from Adam, same as the Angels, one would expect them to have this most critical angelic organ, no? But as we know, the S^2 is also not only dangerous in its own right, it's the last thing you want to make available to a giant organism you don't know whether or not you'll be able to control. The umbilical cables have disadvantages, but by handicapping these entities and making them reliant on their masters for energy (most of the time, anyway), it provides a convenient failsafe if they don't do as they are told.

This might not really fit. If the S^2 organs were simply removed from the Eva's at some point, then why would Nerv need to recover a sample from the angels.
Read the post again, dude. "Engineered out" as in "at the genetic level". Reichu has posted this theory before. What she means is that NERV may have manipulated the genetic code of the first Eva, to ensure that it would not develop an S^2

The core is first and foremost a container or vessel for the soul, and secondly, if we are correct, the location of the Eva/Angel's S^2 organ. Now we know Nerv does not have the ability to simple create a soul. Like gold, they seemingly cannot form it from baser metals
Ritsuko: Yes, that's a human.
Eva, which did not have a soul ab initio,
now that has a human soul.
Is that really a quote from Evangelion? That isn't either English or Japanese, that looks like Latin. I know it's from the Literal Translation project, but is it acutally what Ritsuko said at that point? The LTP is not as accurate as it would like to pretend, I'm afraid.

But the core is the seat of the soul within the Eva. So perhaps without a soul, the core simply would not form/grow/mature and thus neither would the S^2 organ. The core as a kind of kernel of the entire Eva, need its genesis in a soul present, something Nerv simply couldn't provide.
I really, really, really think that this is overanalysis of the worst kind. I don't think that there's any evidence to support this theory, nor does it offer anything over and above the pre-existing theory. I really think that you are quite wrong in your supposition that Evangelions would be born without cores. Didn't you speculate only recently that Evangelions have a soul of their own, in any case? You must decide which of those two theories you wish to support, if you intend to pursue either of them. Personally, I see nothing to be gained from this.

Reichu wrote:
Soluzar wrote:Have you never eaten a coconut? She smashed it into pieces, first, and then ate the sweet, sweet biomass inside.


Yeah, but watch the episode... She never lays a finger on Zer's core, she just sticks her face straight in! No preparatory work or anything.


'twas but a joke, and not to be taken seriously... :D
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Postby Reichu » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:12 am

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:So what about the Eva's actual cores. They certainly have them. I'd submit, that these cores are in fact artificial.


Well, you do realize that the whole bloody Eva is artificial? Artificial simply means not of nature. But that's beside the point -- you mean artificial as in an artificial heart, something that merely emulates the real thing? But regarding the idea that they were "installed" after the fact, I am not so sure. The core is not just a hollow ball, it's a dynamic structure. See Yui-sama's sex scene with the Spear to see what I mean. (Incidentally, the morphic property exhibited there provides a nice explanation for how entry plugs can be shoved in and out of cores -- the core 'yields' to allows its entry, then seals itself automatically when the plug is retracted.) I really don't see how the inherent properties of a core could be blindly replicated, unless it "made itself" (happened to form as part of an Eva's natural growth).

Yeah, I understand the idea about why a core would not grow with neither soul nor S2 to house. But look at it this way... My default assumption is that the core is a pre-programmed part of their body. An Eva's bodily structure is, unlike an Angel that has rejected humanoid form, genetically determined... Would the body possess its own "intelligence" and somehow "know" that a core is for such-and-such purpose? "Ah, I'm an Angel and I have a soul, ergo, I must develop a core to enclose it." I suppose by the same extent, the soul would require some kind of "intelligence" to know that the core is where it lives. Hmmm... Well, anyway, the idea I'm suggesting is that if the core is just genetically programmed, the body doesn't CARE if it's empty; it will grow a core because it's in the instructions.

More to come later.

I believe the image shots flashed up during Ritsuko's above speech in #23 show an image of Unit-01 connected to Lilith. In this image, it looks to me like Unit-01 core is being operated on. Is it being installed?


Well, there are cloths covering Sho's face and chest, and the one on the chest has a square-shaped cut in it exposing the core. I sure as hell don't know why it's there. ^_^;
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:30 am

Reichu wrote:Well, you do realize that the whole bloody Eva is artificial? Artificial simply means not of nature. But that's beside the point -- you mean artificial as in an artificial heart, something that merely emulates the real thing? But regarding the idea that they were "installed" after the fact, I am not so sure. The core is not just a hollow ball, it's a dynamic structure.

I don't mean atrificial life a pacemaker, or heart "pump", or titanitum hip. I sort of mean artificial like a skin graft. Nerv installed something, some structure perhaps, that caused the eva to grow a core, or accept the material they introduced as part of its own body. I'm thinking core graft here, or possibly a core cultured seperately and then installed.

Reichu wrote:I really don't see how the inherent properties of a core could be blindly replicated, unless it "made itself" (happened to form as part of an Eva's natural growth).

Well, first and foremost, the cores function is to house the soul. We know that Nerv can manipulate and transfer souls, so perhaps it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to suppose that they can somehow, create, culture or manufacture an organic Eva core that can house a soul, then install it in the Eva?
Reichu wrote:Yeah, I understand the idea about why a core would not grow with neither soul nor S2 to house. But look at it this way... My default assumption is that the core is a pre-programmed part of their body. An Eva's bodily structure is, unlike an Angel that has rejected humanoid form, genetically determined... Would the body possess its own "intelligence" and somehow "know" that a core is for such-and-such purpose? "Ah, I'm an Angel and I have a soul, ergo, I must develop a core to enclose it." I suppose by the same extent, the soul would require some kind of "intelligence" to know that the core is where it lives. Hmmm... Well, anyway, the idea I'm suggesting is that if the core is just genetically programmed, the body doesn't CARE if it's empty; it will grow a core because it's in the instructions.

My argument here is that the core will not grow without a soul inside. It's a stretch, but imagine the soul as a kind of driver of the growth of the core. In other words, the core would initially form within the Eva at the earliest stage, tiny little core stem cells so to speak. But because no soul was present, as Nerv cannot simply create Eva souls, the core eventually stopped growing and might have atrophied. Think of the soul inside as having an effect not unlike a hormone, say, without which the core has no stimulus to grow. And naturally, if the core does not grow, neither will the S^2 organ, which would explain Nerv apparent inability to culture S^2's.

So I think that the "genetic instructions" to grow cores and S^2's are present in the Eva's. They certainly accept the presence of the organs once they are present after all. But I think that the core and S^2 organ will not initially mature without a soul inside, and hence the need for Nerv to provide an atrifical core, or a "core graft" to stimulate the inclusion of this vital organ.
Unfortunately this method would provide no soul inside and of course, no S^2 organ.

Reichu wrote:Well, there are cloths covering Sho's face and chest, and the one on the chest has a square-shaped cut in it exposing the core. I sure as hell don't know why it's there. ^_^;

This is the operation I was talking about. They do seem to be operating on the core. possibly installing/grafting it? Or just tinkering? Here are the images.
In the first you can see Unit-01 towards the top of the images. Sheeting of some kind covers both the face and chest. The chest sheeting has a large square cut out of it, through which the core is sticking out. This is rather like an operating theatre really.
http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/full-op_C237_lilith-eva01_crap-comp.jpg

The second image is a closeup of of Unit-01. Again you can see the sheeting with the cut out square and the core sticking out. This is what I was talking about when I mentioned the "installation" of Unit-01's core.
http://evamonkey.com/reichu/snappies/full-op_C252_eva01.jpg
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Postby Gazdakka Gizbang » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:08 am

The S2 organ is not the core, but the core is the outer casing which houses the S2 organ. Hope everyone understands that by now......

Now that we have the empty core, I'm pretty sure it is the Entry Plug that fills in this space, as it is positioned in such a way that it could be within the inner section of the core, and that when Zeruel is pounding Unit 01 at his leisure we can see cracks appearing all over the edges of the Entry Plug (freeze frames anybody?). Of course there is probably some empty space within the core, given that the Entry Plug is just a cylinder and cannot possibly occupy the entire space of the spherical core, and once Unit 01 absorbed the S2 organ it grew around the Entry Plug.

An Eva's bodily structure is, unlike an Angel that has rejected humanoid form, genetically determined... Would the body possess its own "intelligence" and somehow "know" that a core is for such-and-such purpose?


Well I'll be damned, I just talked about the development of an S2 organ in another forum earlier today....

Considering this genetic determination, the EVAs may have simply been created with these S2 organs in tow, but they were removed once all the flesh, bone and muscle were generated. Perhaps they were implementing a core into Unit 01 as it may not have started off with one. The Angels, being born from Adam, started off with their own cores, and hence Units 00 and 02 would follow likewise.

However Lilith is.....different. We, as offspring of Lilith, do not seem to possess this bulbous crimson sphere on our exterior flesh, and so Unit 01 may not have had an external core either. Gehirn and SEELE at that time may have seen it as a disadvantage to their control of Unit 01, as their designs for the Entry Plug would need to be redesigned and refitted to suit Unit 01's internal system (perhaps a heart like everyday humans). So they decided to transfer or "create" a core as Unit 01's internal system, (like a heart transplant I suppose...), but did not need to reconnect the loose ends simply because there was no need to re-insert an S2 organ.

Now concerning the "artificial-ness" of them. We hear "S2 engine" and "S2 organ" being thrown around over the course of the series. Now I've always been curious over whether they are referring to the same thing...

Since the rest of the NERV staff (i,e: Bridge Operators, etc.) were unaware of the EVA's organic composition at the time they were referring to it as an "engine", they could have coined the term "engine" to make it sound more mechanical, and once the organ was implemented could refer to it as such. However they might have also been attempting to design a mechanical version of the S2 organ that would replicate its properties as a reneweable energy source to replace the meager internal power reserves. At the moment I am too tired to look into this (midnight and beyond....) but if no-one else manages to get a solution to it I might look for it tomorrow...

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Postby Reichu » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:20 am

Gazdakka Gizbang wrote:The S2 organ is not the core, but the core is the outer casing which houses the S2 organ. Hope everyone understands that by now......


You've been the third person to kindly point this out, but this thread WAS created with the distinction already made...!!!

Now that we have the empty core, I'm pretty sure it is the Entry Plug that fills in this space, as it is positioned in such a way that it could be within the inner section of the core, and that when Zeruel is pounding Unit 01 at his leisure we can see cracks appearing all over the edges of the Entry Plug (freeze frames anybody?). Of course there is probably some empty space within the core, given that the Entry Plug is just a cylinder and cannot possibly occupy the entire space of the spherical core, and once Unit 01 absorbed the S2 organ it grew around the Entry Plug.


Yes, the end of the entry plug goes into the core, if we are talking about "deep" insertion. Sometimes mention is made about entry plug "depth" in the show... Are there times when it remains outside of the core? There is the possibility that it is expelled when EVA-01 goes on her little rampages (see scene 8 of episode #01 in the commentary). I mentioned the dynamic properties of the core that would permit entry plug insertion in an above post.

Considering this genetic determination, the EVAs may have simply been created with these S2 organs in tow, but they were removed once all the flesh, bone and muscle were generated


Apparently not, considering the G-man and the Third Branch were so interested in Shammy's core...

. Perhaps they were implementing a core into Unit 01 as it may not have started off with one. The Angels, being born from Adam, started off with their own cores, and hence Units 00 and 02 would follow likewise.

However Lilith is.....different. We, as offspring of Lilith, do not seem to possess this bulbous crimson sphere on our exterior flesh, and so Unit 01 may not have had an external core either.


Not seen this thread, I take it? I personally consider the idea that EVA-01 is not derived from Adam to be blatant falsehood, but you can see the gritty details there.

Gehirn and SEELE at that time may have seen it as a disadvantage to their control of Unit 01, as their designs for the Entry Plug would need to be redesigned and refitted to suit Unit 01's internal system


Unless entry plug technology was first developed for use on Adam, EVA-01 would have been the first to possess one they were actually planning to use... I'm sure they were experimenting with the prototypes along the way, though.

(perhaps a heart like everyday humans).


The whole body simply seems to be the container, rather than a desginated area. Although Rei does return to Lilith via the solar plexus region, where a core WOULD be if Lilith had one.

So they decided to transfer or "create" a core as Unit 01's internal system, (like a heart transplant I suppose...), but did not need to reconnect the loose ends simply because there was no need to re-insert an S2 organ.


Well, the core does need to be anchored in the body, otherwise it would just slip out. If you look at closeups in #19 and #20, you can see the flesh of the nuclear region taking root in the core, holding it in place. It's fully integrated in the body.

Now concerning the "artificial-ness" of them. We hear "S2 engine" and "S2 organ" being thrown around over the course of the series. Now I've always been curious over whether they are referring to the same thing...


Both are the same thing in Japanese, S2 kikan. Kikan written one way, 機関. primarily means "engine", and these are the kanji that are used for the show. "Organ" is written 器官. However, the first can ALSO mean "organ", and, considering that it is of an organic nature (if #19 is any indication), this is clearly the more appropriate translation. Some people just sidestep the problem and call it an "S2 Unit", though. :P

OMF wrote:I don't mean atrificial life a pacemaker, or heart "pump", or titanitum hip. I sort of mean artificial like a skin graft. Nerv installed something, some structure perhaps, that caused the eva to grow a core, or accept the material they introduced as part of its own body. I'm thinking core graft here, or possibly a core cultured seperately and then installed.

Well, first and foremost, the cores function is to house the soul. We know that Nerv can manipulate and transfer souls, so perhaps it's not too much of a stretch of the imagination to suppose that they can somehow, create, culture or manufacture an organic Eva core that can house a soul, then install it in the Eva?


It doesn't seem like something that would be possible unless they had something to base it on... What would they have needed to do, taken a swab to the inside of Adam's during the Katsuragi Expedition and let it culture in their lab later? :? If it was not grown as part of a whole, how would they have been able to simply "construct" one...?

I do agree, though, that the conspicuous square-shaped cut deserves some kind of explanation... And my own theory about the lack of S^2s in Evas takes into account some things, but not the fact that they would be so interested in obtaining an intact organ from a fallen Angel.

AchtungAffen's own pet theory for why the S2 is missing is based on the fact that the S^2 is the physical manifestation of the Fruit of Life, which is supposed to be present only in Angels. Now, the Fruit of Knowledge, what Lilim have, has no physical manifestation; it is a quality of the soul alone, suggesting an 'inherent difference' between Lilim and Angel souls, and it is the SOUL which makes an S^2 grow. Ergo, the harpies have them while the other Evas do not because they (in theory) all possess imprints of Adam's soul.

Of course, I disagree with the premise that the harpies possess Adam's soul in any way... First of all, Seele tells us in #24' that "[Adam's] soul exists solely in [Kaworu]", so the harpies clearly couldn't be candidates. Secondly, the ONLY working explanation I have heard for the harpies' suicides is that they were shattering their cores to free their souls and thus join the giant orgy in the sky, and they would not be doing this unless their souls had come from the Black Moon in the first place (thus making them eligible for the process).

That said, it makes one wonder how the harpies got them (unless my little "engineering idea" has any merit), unless the Third Branch was secretly copying Shammy's organ (uh, huh huh huh, I said "organ") before it was shipped to America, and the transferal process had been perfected behind closed doors...

Back to the core problem, here is one little idea of mine. Look at the Simulation Bodies:

SPOILER: Show
Image


There is an array of five beads on the sternum. Have we seen that arrangement anywhere else...?

SPOILER: Show
Image


One possibility is that the beads represent an undeveloped core and the four nucleolae that surround it. A couple of problems:

1) The beads are on the sternum, not in the solar plexus. However, in EoE we do see cores erroneously depicted in the sternal region, so it could just be a similar error.

2) We don't see FIVE nucleolae until EoE, while there are only two the first time we see Sho's core, in #19, and the extra two seem to have just been added to give the core region a vulvic appearance in that one EoE shot. Who the hell really knows, though.

3) EVA-01 is the only Eva known to possess nucleolae in the first place (they certainly are not evident when we see EVA-00 or the harpies). We don't even know why, or what the hell the nucleolae are in the first place, but if my "beads = core and nucleolae" idea holds any merit, perhaps the Simulation Bodies were simply based off EVA-01's genome, or the other Evas do secretly possess them after all. Again, who the hell knows.

The advantage here is that we explain what the hell the arrangement of beads on the Simulation Bodies are, while demonstrating that a "baby" core exists inherently in an Eva.

Now, accepting all this, perhaps what we are seeing in #23' is a process designed to stimulate the growth of the core to a mature size.

SPOILER: Show
Image
Image


That would sit with me better than it being "installed", at any rate.


EDIT 2020/5: Fixed image links.
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Postby Defectron » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:53 am

How are they an exception?


Asuka punched right through the chests of those last two she was fighting but they still managed to revive. So unless she somehow missed their cores I think they might be built a little different.
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