Sun & Moon symbolism in Evangelion

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Ironfoot
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Sun & Moon symbolism in Evangelion

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Postby Ironfoot » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:23 pm

(While this thread originally encompassed a theory I had about the moon in EoE, it has evolved to include the sun and moon symbolism throughout all of Evangelion, specifically how the sun is associated with Asuka and how the moon is associated with Rei throughout the series.)

I came across an idea while thinking about the final scene in EoE. It sounds crazy, but I thought of this at the spur of the moment and figured it was worth a shot. It's based on the premise that the moon with the streak of blood represents something, considering its shown 3 times during the scene, with one of these shots from Shinji's own perspective. This would suggest an important meaning, but it's been very difficult finding a concrete meaning, other than archaic symbolism.

The following was my original theory:

===
In the final scene, the moon with the streak of blood across it is shown multiple times, which suggests an important meaning, but what?

Thinking for a while, I remembered Shinji's exchange of lines with Rei and Kaworu earlier in the movie.

Shinji:
I don't mind. But, what are you two within my heart?

Rei:
Hope. The hope that people might be able to understand one another.

Kaworu:
And the words 'I love you'.


Considering both Rei & Kaworu represent the white moon, the moon could be seen as the representation of the words "I love you," and the hope that people can understand each other. But the puzzle wasn't complete.

Upon realizing what the moon really symbolized, I suddenly remembered the exchange of words Shinji and Kaji shared in Episode 18.

Shinji: Is that fit with your relationships with Misato, too?

Kaji: Kanojo(she, girlfriend in Japanese) in Kanji means a woman far way. For us, women existing on the shore across. It means there is a river wider and deeper than ocean between men and women.

Shinji: I cannot understand the grown-ups.


With this in mind, everything suddenly connected for me. Rei showed up then, representing hope in this case. After Shinji sat up, there was the moon again. I honestly believe that in this scene, the moon is representing the embodiment of the words "I love you." But since the moon is so far away, across the shore of space so to speak, Rei's representation of Hope makes far more sense now. It is the ultimate symbol of Shinji and Asuka's relationship in the entire series.
===

As this thread progressed, it soon became evident that the moon had far more symbolism in the original series than it appeared, as well as the sun. Many suggestions were brought up as to what the moon (and the sun) represented in the scene, as well as throughout the series. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a general consensus on the issue, leaving you, the reader to make up your own mind on what this all means.

This thread has seemed to bring out within us our own individual viewpoints, a view that doesn't like to be contested by any means, especially with the vagueness of the final scene, a scene arguably the most heartfelt in the movie. If you think this stuff is ridiculous then I ask that you please leave the topic immediately, as this boat has nearly capsized more than once. If you're in for the ride, then I ask that you keep an open mind to prevent the topic from being locked.

Thank you.
Last edited by Ironfoot on Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:31 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby BrikHaus » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:12 pm

Please keep the Rebuild spoilers confined to the Rebuild Forum.
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-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
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Postby Ironfoot » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:24 pm

BrikHaus wrote:Please keep the Rebuild spoilers confined to the Rebuild Forum.


It is unfortunate that the evidence that Rebuild shows cannot be applied here.

But moving on...
Last edited by Ironfoot on Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:26 pm

Aww I get a mention in a thread. I feel warm and fuzzy. ^_^

Apparently, the stuff about Shinji & Asuka being "on the same shore" at the end of EoE was mentioned on some ANF threads, I think. Though Kaji was supposedly referring to (in Japanese of course) a river as opposed to a large body of water like an ocean, I think it still has some merit. (Kaji was killed 'cause he knows too much!)

Image

Personally, I think the Moon could represent Rei with her symbolism as well as Kaworu with the stuff you stated. After all, nobody said it couldn't, right? ;)

Oh, and stuff about Lilith transcending time and space which is why she's in Episode 1 and 26', blah blah blah.


@ Brik: Who's to say Cyclical History's a Rebuild Spoiler? It's still possible Anno's just screwing with the audience's minds again.
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Postby BrikHaus » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:30 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:@ Brik: Who's to say Cyclical History's a Rebuild Spoiler? It's still possible Anno's just screwing with the audience's minds again.

There was other stuff in here that has since been edited out. Thank you, Ironfoot, for doing so.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:32 pm

Oh, you were talking about the KAWORU BEING ON THE you-know-what. I know that each thing should be kept in it's respective thread section, but like I said not in so many words before....

Anno's known for making people do this: :shock:. Heh.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:42 pm

Ironfoot wrote:It is unfortunate that the evidence that Rebuild shows cannot be applied here.

Rebuild gives no evidence applicable to the orginal series. By all indications it's got it's own continuity.
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby Ironfoot » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:12 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Rebuild gives no evidence applicable to the orginal series. By all indications it's got it's own continuity.


Well, evidence or not, we can't discuss it here, which is a shame.

Anyways, pretending that Rebuild doesn't exist in this thread...SSD pointed out that Shinji and Asuka were on the same shore in regards to Kaji's line. I didn't see that previously, thank you for pointing that out. That's definitely the end result of Instrumentality right there.

So I suppose the next question to answer is: What does the red streak of blood represent?

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Postby NAveryW » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:32 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Oh, you were talking about the KAWORU BEING ON THE you-know-what.
SSD, you may want to edit that out. It's rather obvious what you mean by "you-know-what" from the context.
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Postby Shiro » Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:45 pm

We should get back on topic, instead of debating out of context, vague Webuild spoils. No one is going to have the entire movie ruined by one sentence. (Well, it's possible, but SSD's sentence is way too vague)

So...BACK ON TOPIC, BITCHES!

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:59 am

Moon is associated with Rei. Rei = Hope. The red might be given more significance when viewing the two endings where EoTV ends in blue (supposedly still in Instrumentality) and EoE ends back in a reality with a strong red haze, so red = reality. I just take that red streak splashed moon to represent the hope we need to survive in reality. It's appropriate to think of the red streak as blood, because the just reiterates how harsh reality can be.
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Postby The Imperialist » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:51 am

It's like the Pandora's Box.
I feel old

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Postby Zuggy » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:06 pm

--
Last edited by Zuggy on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "I love you," says the moon.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:56 pm

Zugzwang wrote:Were you wasted when you wrote that? :lol:
I'm perpetually wasted.

Zugzwang wrote:Keep in mind that it's fairly common knowledge that the left eye is the Moon (we see a close up of Rei's left eye in the opening credits and in ep.#14) it's established from the very start! The Moon is also associated with the breasts as the breasts are associated with Cancer (ruled by the Moon) in the celestial anatomy of Man - think of words connected with motherhood and femininity, those are lunar words.

Then there is the more obvious connection with the menstrual cycle, which is a big theme in NGE! "White moon" is a astrological term for the lunar perigee (when the moon is closest to the earth), the "black moon" is a term for the lunar apogee (when the moon is furthest from the earth) which are associated with a woman's highest and lowest points of fertility in her menstrual cycle.

Reason I post all that is I don't know what to make of the blood on the moon, so others might come up with something from the above information. I could write what my intuitive thoughts are on what it means symbolically here but that wouldn't be very precise.
Were you wasted when you wrote that? ;)
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Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
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Re: "I love you," says the moon.

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Postby Zuggy » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:05 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Were you wasted when you wrote that? ;)

Difference being while you were rambling about the colour red equalling reality and all that, what I posted were actual facts that you will find in any book on astrology.

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Re: "I love you," says the moon.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:37 pm

Zugzwang wrote:what I posted were actual facts that you will find in any book on astrology.
:lol: Facts and astrology don't belong in the same sentence. You really think NGE just arbitrarily picks colors? Especially when certain ones are so pronounced and reiterated over and over and over? I don't think so.
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Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Zuggy » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:58 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote::lol: Facts and astrology don't belong in the same sentence.

Whatever your opinion of astrology is doesn't matter. Fact is, with the level of overt occult symbolism and this "metabiology" in NGE it makes it a valid avenue to look down in interpreting whichever-bit-of-imagery or whatever-scenario. Plus, as I already said the show itself uses astrological terms which means it's even more relevant.

Eva Yojimbo wrote:You really think NGE just arbitrarily picks colors? Especially when certain ones are so pronounced and reiterated over and over and over? I don't think so.

When and where is the colour red reiterated over and over in NGE as meaning "reality" then?

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:34 pm

Zugzwang wrote:Fact is, with the level of overt occult symbolism and this "metabiology" in NGE it makes it a valid avenue to look down in interpreting whichever-bit-of-imagery or whatever-scenario.
With the level of overt Christian symbolism in NGE it makes The Bible a valid avenue to look down in interpreting whichever-bit-of-imagery or whatever-scenario.

Or so you'd think.

Point is NGE borrowed a lot of ideas from various sources but rarely maintained the original meaning.

Zugzwang wrote:When and where is the colour red reiterated over and over in NGE as meaning "reality" then?
I said the color red is reiterated over and over. It's symbolic meaning is up for interpretation. And I don't think I want to go down the list of all the ways NGE presents red, but it's the final scene that has such a strong red coloring that makes me think red=reality. A corollary to this is the fact that EoTV ends in a blue tint, and it's widely believe EoTV ends still in instrumentality.
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Zuggy » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:59 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote:With the level of overt Christian symbolism in NGE it makes The Bible a valid avenue to look down in interpreting whichever-bit-of-imagery or whatever-scenario.

Or so you'd think.

If someone can write up how some aspect of NGE can be explained neatly by the Bible, then yes, I would accept that as being a useful avenue to go down. It's the same as those who write up their thoughts on NGE using the qabalah and specifically the tree of emanations as their base, and the tree of emanations is literally based on astrology/ptolemaic-type schemes of the universe as I'm sure you know!

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Point is NGE borrowed a lot of ideas from various sources but rarely maintained the original meaning.

That classifies them as occult then.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:03 pm

A gigantic chunk of fantasy and sci-fi falls under the occult, but that doesn't mean they prescribe to existing occult beliefs with their narrative devices. And, just to head off Tines:

TOPIC BITCHES!
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^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James


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