Geofront/Moon Stuff

[Blue Monday]

I've been so engulfed in my project to merge EoTV and EoE...

Valkyrie, are you familiar with this project?
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/2133/EoTV-EoE-Episodes-Concurrency-Project/

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Here's something that came up in the #egf-rebuild irc chat which has relevance to the Nerv/HQs new location atop the main shaft.

In the scene where Gendo and Fuyutsuki "kill" the Seele monoliths, Gendo is actually floating! You can see that his toes are not flush with the horizontal, but are actually pointing downwards.

Gendo is floating  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C1285.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg]Eva3-33 C1285 crop x3.jpg[/wkimg]

It's very subtle, but you can actually see Gendo is very slowly floating upwards in the shot at the very beginning of this sequence.
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C1282_b.jpg[/wkimg]
The lighting etc, isn't helping here. To see this properly, you really need to speed up the sequence to about 4-8 times normal speed. He's travelling slowly upwards throughout the shot.

This gif is actually animated if you squint your eyes a little bit.
[wkimg]eva3-33_C1282_ani.gif[/wkimg]

While Gendo could just be on a wire here, I tend to think we are seeing Nerv's own anti-gravity technology in operation here. The device responsible for this is likely to be the purple circle seen on the floor in this scene. Note that this device wasn't present in an earlier scene when Gendo and Fuyutsuki were looking upwards at the monoliths.

Purple Anti-Gravity ring  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C1288 A Gendo Float Monoliths.jpg[/wkimg]
The ring wasn't present earlier
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0650.jpg[/wkimg]

So, if Nerv indeed have some kind of Anti-gravity/Levitation technology inside HQ, then that would explain how HQ manages to remain perched in such a precarious position atop the main shaft without actually ever toppling over.

Nervs HQ Nest  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=207]Eva3-33 C0812B comp.jpg[/wkimg]

....magnets! Or more likely an Anti-Gravity system.

This of course may well have implications for the sequence of events surrounding Third Impact. If Nerv could levitate HQ all along, then HQ could have been moved up long after 3I, or indeed long before. It's seems the more we discover, the harder our job seems to get. NTE is really living up to the NGE's reputation.

[The Dragon Mask]

Valkyrie, are you familiar with this project?
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/2133/EoTV-EoE-Episodes-Concurrency-Project/

Yes, I have seen it, although I started this project before my brother told me about your's. Some of the placements of the scenes from EoTV are interesting, and many are basically at the same point, like Shinji's reflection of killing Kaworu in the beginning. However, due to the "flow" of music and action in many EoE scenes, it's hard to transplant Asuka's case in the middle of the Pre-Instrumentality, and in the case of the explanation of instrumentality by Ritsuko and Gendo, the latter can't possibly have entered instrumentality (pre or otherwise) yet.

I would like to show you what I have so far if you're interested, so you can see the differences in our interpretations. Maybe we could even collaborate a little, though so far it seems like mostly everything is in place. Should I send a PM with a link or something? It's pretty big, as I haven't bothered to try to optimize the export settings yet.

Edit: Any cuts in the middle of Kumm Susser Tod are pretty much impossible without making the switch more obvious than it already is (I can't magically make the EoTV scenes be 4:3, but they are placed as to make the switch as smooth as possible)

Double Edit: Just pretend I used neutral terms. I can't believe I just assumed you were Sailor Star Dust.

[Shinoyami65]

So, if Nerv indeed have some kind of Anti-gravity/Levitation technology inside HQ, then that would explain how HQ manages to remain perched in such a precarious position atop the main shaft without actually ever toppling over.

Nervs HQ Nest  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=207]Eva3-33 C0812B comp.jpg[/wkimg]

....magnets! Or more likely an Anti-Gravity system.

This of course may well have implications for the sequence of events surrounding Third Impact. If Nerv could levitate HQ all along, then HQ could have been moved up long after 3I, or indeed long before. It's seems the more we discover, the harder our job seems to get. NTE is really living up to the NGE's reputation.

Nice catch!

It's been suggested that Gendo has received some Angel powers, although I prefer the anti-grav interpretation (if only because Gendo doesn't have a levitation halo like the Angels and Evas which can fly). Though I'm not sure why Gendo would want to use it during the SEELE scene, though...

[ElMariachi]

Though I'm not sure why Gendo would want to use it during the SEELE scene, though...

Symbolism : if you look at all the previous meetings between Gendo and SEELE, the later where always floating above him, placing themselves in a dominant position, as Gendo's superiors.
But in the final meeting, by floating at their level, Gendo places himself on a equal foot, not like a subject prostrated to a king or god, but addressing them "face to face"(or face to monolith/brain). The perfect position to tell that he's not their subject anymore and that from now on he will fly by his own wings. And kill them, just to be sure.

[Blue Monday]

I would like to show you what I have so far if you're interested, so you can see the differences in our interpretations.

Oh, no - It isn't my project. I'm in no way involved. Just thought it would be worth you looking into seeing you're embarking on a similar endeavour.

[ElMariachi]

Symbolism : if you look at all the previous meetings between Gendo and SEELE, the later where always floating above him, placing themselves in a dominant position, as Gendo's superiors.
But in the final meeting, by floating at their level, Gendo places himself on a equal foot, not like a subject prostrated to a king or god, but addressing them "face to face"(or face to monolith/brain). The perfect position to tell that he's not their subject anymore and that from now on he will fly by his own wings. And kill them, just to be sure.

EDIT : wooops, wrong button!

[Jornophelanthas]

from now on [Gendo] will fly by his own wings.

Are you deliberately alluding to "Tsubasa Wo Kudasai" with that choice of words?

[ElMariachi]

Are you deliberately alluding to "Tsubasa Wo Kudasai" with that choice of words?

I can (not) deny that!

Hey, in both the father and son's case, it was an act of becoming independent that included an Impact to mark the occasion, it's almost a family tradition of the Ikaris by now!

[Jornophelanthas]

I find it highly inappropriate to associate Gendo with that song, because Shinji and Rei were not deliberately involved in Near-Third Impact, but merely started it in their innocence. The use of this song in that scene perfectly reflects this innocence.

Gendo embodies the very opposite of innocence, and therefore the song is extremely inappropriate when applied to him.

(Not that it is a wrong thing to create this association; to me, the result just seems to be more jarring than elegant.)

[ElMariachi]

That was just humor, you know...

[The Dragon Mask]

Oh, no - It isn't my project. I'm in no way involved. Just thought it would be worth you looking into seeing you're embarking on a similar endeavour.

Oh derp, for some reason I saw Shinji in your avatar and somehow equated it to the guy over there. In any case, I'm trying to upload it, so if anyone is interested I can try to get a link PM'ed.

[Kendrix]

The trouble with that is that there surely have to be very considerable numbers of people somewhere to operate and maintain the facilities we see, scrappy though they are. Consider just the numbers of people on all the boats in that fleet with the Wunder, for instance, not to mention the infrastructure required simply to feed them and provide fuel for the ships.

To quote episode 11, the geofront was designed as a completely autonomous colony... They were ALWAYS crazy prepared, anf if Rebuild!SEELE anticipated this drastic an outcome...

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Concerning the Anti-Gravity system post mentioned above: I feel a little silly for not having remembered this the first time, but in the 3.0 preview, Eva-08 was shown "floating" over a glowing purple ring similar to the one below Gendo

Glowing Purple anti-gravity ring  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]Eva2-22 jikai C12.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33_C1288_A_Gendo_Float_Monoliths.jpg[/wkimg]

Given the currently dubious nature of the preview, this is only tentative supporting evidence for a Nerv anti-gravity system, but I said I'd mention it all the same.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

I believe the ring under Unit-08 is merely another Halo, like the one that appears underneath the AAA Wunder and over the head of Unit-01 in 2.22. The floaty ring under Gendo does not share the mobile characteristics of either aforementioned rings, and so probably is not the same.

[TB3]

One thought I've had, based on the past discussions and after observing the film itself, is that I think the altar was built, and not simply a part of the black moon that raised up to engulf Nerv.

The evidence I give is the cracked Earth at the foot of where the main shaft pierces the centre of the 'eye' - I think this is the exact same rupture that formed in the final seconds of 2.22, where Tokyo-3 was literally peeled-back in quarter segments, and it is simply not big enough for the altar have fit through if the altar did indeed lift up from underground.

Also, if something that big was pulled up around Nerv HQ, I'd be very surprised that the pyramid, pool and solar collector remained standing, and were not buried under millions of tons of displaced rock and topsoil (instead they fit into it perfectly). Likewise, what little we see of the terrain inside the actual geofront (mostly Kaworu chillin' in what remains of Kaji's old melon patch) shows no signs of a massive upheaval that might be expected. Indeed, any hypothetical ascention of the altar would have involved the exact same kind of upthrust and land displacement seen when the black moon itself arises in 3.33, effectively destroying the geofront.

So, what I was wondering is this: Did the main shaft and its surrounding substructure get lifted up, emerging like a proboscis out of the Earth's surface, with NERV HQ perched on top, including the EVA cages and whatnot? Then, later on, after all this was done, the altar was built around NERV in readiness to offer it up in the Fourth Impact (the altar does seem more blocky and manmade in nature to the smooth and contoured lines of the Black Moon itself, and appears to be ringed on the inside and outside with construction gantries and railways) - which kinda ties into the 'Gendo and Kozo flew NERV into Guf-space' theory.

That's my thirty pieces of silver tossed into the ring. Admittedly it does not explain everything, including just where Shinji woke up in hospital (unless that is NERV's old hospital in the Geofront, and Rei then took him UP to the top of the Altar and down the incline railway to HQ itself, all without him seeing the shit that has gone down on the surrounding landscape).

[ElMariachi]

Something I noticed, when we see Kaworu chilling near Kaworu's watermelon patch :

SPOILER: Show

Look closely at the ground, don't you see something odd? Yep, that's the only patch of earth we see in the whole movie that isn't blood red, but brown! Like actual earth! And the metallic poles around have still their original color, instead of the bright red ruins we see in the final scene of 3.0!

Beside, we see in the background some ruins of the upside-down buildings, which are nowhere to be seen around NERV pyramid :

SPOILER: Show

And from 2.0, we know that Kaji's patch of watermelon is very near the pyramid :

SPOILER: Show

That could mean two things :
1/ the altar walls are actually hollow, and part of NERV HQ and the surroundings have been trapped inside the walls, that would also explain why EVA-01 cage is in the open(a breach in the wall maybe?)
2/ Somehow, Kaworu descended inside the Geofront, at the same level where NERV pyramid once was.

But in any case this patch of earth wasn't turned red and/or turned into core material. That would mean that there actually was an "eye of the storm" around Third Impact epicenter that spared everything and everyone inside.
Furthermore, inside Lilith's Chamber, the heart of 3I according to Kaworu, the military vehicles wrecks were still metallic green, and not bright red like the rest of the world.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

My feeling is that Kaworu has flown all the way down to the bottom of the old Geofront level, far below the pyramid and inside the split open Geofront shell. It is interesting that the ground here is not red though. Perhaps because Nerv HQ was lifted out after whatever event caused the red of the world to become red? But in that case, what about the FoIs in the main shaft.

Curiouser and curiouser.

[TMBounty_Hunter]

So.....the moon....

Reichu wanted to know if it's the near side facing Shinji when it boggles his mind.

That does appear to be the case.

The making-of part is pretty easy. It's a static 2D image and the moon isn't covered in blood+clouds+grid.

Near Side moon pic from wikipedia

SPOILER: Show

The actual thing in the film is a giant pain. It's a full 3D model with blood and clouds obscuring most features.

SPOILER: Show

Thing is, it's both translating at a good speed and rotating at something like 3-4°/s
So by the time Kaworu finishes his explanation it would have fully rotated a few times and went over the horizon. That would be some seriously fucked up thing to see and I'm surprised Shinji managed to actually pay attention to Kaworu with that going on.

[ElMariachi]

Oh god, Anno has gone as far in the details as to make drawn a geographically correct moon? Why I'm surprised?