Debate the quality of Rebuild here. [2]

[Mr. Tines]

And to all the children -- just chill, man!

[Bagheera]

I'd hate to ruin this whole vibe I seem to get about this mistake somehow ruining 1.11 specifically and how much better the original show was in comparison,

That's not really what anyone is saying though, is it? The criticism I'm seeing is that 1.xx improved some elements and dropped the ball on others, which is an entirely different matter. Personally I like Ramiel's aesthetics a lot, I like some of the remixed music tracks leading up to the scene, and I like a lot of the visuals used in bringing it to life (particularly when Shinji fires; that retreating shot passing from him out through Unit 01 is really good). But that said I do think they made the cannon and the firing sequence overly complex, and that made Rei's absence a lot more noticable in 1.xx than it was in the series. I also think it was kinda sad that they dropped the warping effect of the two shots interacting with one another, but that's a separate issue (just a matter of preference, really).

[Mr. Tines]

I also think it was kinda sad that they dropped the warping effect of the two shots interacting with one another

Yes -- they really should have kept that; but that was the only thing that struck me when watching that scene.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[Ornette]

This time I simply don't get it. Is it because Ramiel's wounded?

Presumably, but there's more. Like I've mentioned elsewhere, everyone (including the audience I think) had assumed that was it for Ramiel. The build-up of music and tension ended, blood splurted out (and up to this point, we all know what that meant), it wasn't until the cliche'ed "Did we get it?" was asked that there was any doubt Ramiel was actually not dead. Return fire was toward the entire side of the mountain (you can see the fires of the entire mountain facing Ramiel after the return fire), because up until that point, Ramiel was focused on a bunch of mosquito stings from all around it (which was the whole point of firing all that conventional weaponry at Ramiel, so the Angel would be distracted from what the real attack was going to be), it gets almost killed, and it returns fire ASAP in the general direction of where the shot came from. You can also see that Shinji doesn't actually get hit with the beam, the mountain-side does. This gave Ramiel time for a targeted attack against the threat (otherwise Ramiel would have just continued firing in the general direction), one that would most definitely hit Shinji directly, and that was blocked by Rei, just like she said. There was no reason, even if she was ready and anticipating a return fire from a presumably dead Angel, for her to block the attack on the side of the mountain (eventhough it did do splash damage to the surroundings).

I have no problem with any of this, it makes perfect sense to me.

[Seele00TextOnly]

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[Ornette]

That is all sensible enough, but it would have made more sense to me for her to jump in front of Shinji anyway then, not knowing if the Angel was going to initially hit him or miss like that, also not knowing if it would move its beam while firing it to smother the whole area (it had demonstrated this moving beam capability with the missiles moments earlier).

If that's the case, she should have just been in front of Shinji the entire time, in both versions of the fight, since, in both versions of the fight, Shinji had no problem firing with her in front (blocking an attack). Why wasn't she in front blocking any potential attack from the get go in NGE or in Rebuild?

[Warren Peace]

Because it would water down the scene. Rei being there the entire time robs tension -- "oh, it's cool if he misses, there's that shield". Having her leap into action allows a heroic moment. If the shield takes too much damage, it lessens the threat and makes it seem like Nerv has plenty of time.

[Bagheera]

If that's the case, she should have just been in front of Shinji the entire time, in both versions of the fight, since, in both versions of the fight, Shinji had no problem firing with her in front (blocking an attack). Why wasn't she in front blocking any potential attack from the get go in NGE or in Rebuild?

She probably should have been. That was her job, after all. A dramatic save is nice and all, but if she's gonna protect him she should be there front and center doing just that.

OTOH it could be that she was staying out of the way, and was only going to get involved if he missed and needed cover to reload. That worked well in the series, since reloading and Ramiel's shooting were straightforward affairs, but less well in 1.xx since the timing of everything was different and Ramiel's shots were all over the map.

I dunno. In NGE things were very straightforward, but in 1.xx I found myself saying "wait, where the hell is Rei?" while he was reloading. She showed up eventually, but . . .

[symbv]

I agree with Ornette. The scene made perfect sense to me. And besides what Warren Peace said about making the scene more dramatic, I also have the feeling that putting Rei all in front of Shinji would mean that she is only used as his shield but more likely Rei is used to be his support, not just to take hits. I am not sure Rei would have been able to tell that a second shot was needed so soon after the first and Shinji actually wanted to take a second shot, but once she saw that she figured the only thing she could do was to be his shield. Her jumping in front of Shinji without much of a thought to protect him showed her quick decision and how much she took the mission as well as protection of Shinji seriously, at least that is how it reads to me personally.

[Tribblepoo]

Having seen 2.0 (but not 1.0), I am gathering a couple of things. Most of the changes that can be seen as "bad" are somewhat minor things (at least cosmetically), but have the potential for larger impact over the course of the series.

Take for example when Unit-03's entry plug is crushed. In the series, this was done by Unit-01's right hand. This, among other things, draws important parallels to Shinji's fight with Kaworu, in which that angel is crushed (again) with the right hand. The symbolism of this as an "arc" of character development, linking both events and everything in between is undeniable.

To me, this sort of linking (the "you never see anything once" theory) was important in NGE as it helped develop subconscious links to events that have taken place previously. In my opinion, something is lost without this sort of linking.

In all though, I believe they are changing Evangelion into an action/drama series, instead of one that is deeply psychological. If this is the case, then Rebuild is good as they are accomplishing this rather well. However, if they are still going for psychological (there are hints of this) then they are widely missing the mark.

Then again, the change may simply be due to a time constraint issue. Now, for things that I did like.

The characters seem to be able to say a LOT more about their general attitude or current thoughts without speaking a word. For example, the stance that Asuka takes when she lands in Unit-02 after her entrance says volumes about her character, even though to this point we had never seen her face or hear her voice yet.

Another incident we see this is when Shinji is getting ready to leave before Zeruel arrives. When Misato tries to reach for him, his step out of her reach is so sharp that I couldn't interpret it as anything other than a "Fuck you, I TOLD you I am not piloting again!"

I wish we could have seen more of this type of stuff in the series. It really would have driven the point home of the separation between individuals.

[chaosakita]

I don't think the writers are trying to remove the psychological aspect of Eva. But when you are doing a movie, you only have so much time. And they aren't all completed yet, so I think we should wait until trying to judge the series as a whole.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

If the writers were trying to remove the psychological aspects of Evangelion with the newer movies, then they wouldn't have starting suggesting them a lot sooner than the original TV show. We don't get an "Eva Train Scene" until Ep. 12 in the original show, but we get one in the first 30 minutes of the first new movie, which is repeated multiple times in the second installment before what could have been considered the throw-back to Ep. 12 of the original show. Then there's Shinji's whole mini freak-out moment in Eva Unit 01 as he realizes the gravity of his situation during the climax of 1.11.

I think one of the reasons why they're introducing psychological moments even earlier in the new movies then they were in the original series is because they knew that they needed an earlier start on them in order to take the time to arc them perfectly in a series with a shorter duration, and thus preparing them to take on the full effect in REDO and FINAL.

Kinda scary when you really sit down and think about it...

Kinda like how Evangelion should be...

[Reichu]

Take for example when Unit-03's entry plug is crushed. In the series, this was done by Unit-01's right hand. This, among other things, draws important parallels to (...)

Check out Freaky's essay here. He brings up the "food" theme in 2.0 and (I think...) how that could tie into the more ... oral demolition of Eva-03 and the 9th Angel.

"You never see anything just once" is still quite alive and well in the new films. You aren't going to notice as many if you haven't seen both of the available movies, though....

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Check out Freaky's essay here. He brings up the "food" theme in 2.0 and (I think...) how that could tie into the more ... oral demolition of Eva-03 and the 9th Angel.

Everything's eating each other in 2.22! Unit 02 "BEAST MODE" literally bites away the 10th Angel's AT Field, then the Angel entirely swallows Unit 00 whole. So, even when viewing the second film by itself, one can see this oral deconstruction in battle occur more than once.

It all seems eerily reminiscent of Eva Unit 01 chomping down on Gendo in The End of Evangelion. I didn't really mention it in the essay since I was searching within the new series itself to realize this as a motif rather than taking possibly unrelated elements from the older series to substantiate my theory, but one has to wonder one didn't inspire the other, or if it'll all ultimately lead to the same thing (or maybe even worse) in FINAL.

Also, people actually read my essays? Cool! I'd write them more often if I wasn't so busy these days.

[Sharaz Destler]

I just watched 2.22, having borrowed it from a friend. One thing I can say is, whatta cliffhanger! I know that some of you on here have been debating the maturity of Shinji's actions, etc. etc., but I'll be damned if it wasn't awesome. Finally, after all these years, we get to see Second Impact's effect on the world come back to bite the instigators big time, and how a lifetime (15 years, but that's sufficient) of all that can make people a little...crazier than usual.

Hmm...someone else upthread talked about how Rebuild's removing the psychological aspects of the Eva world. I'd say it's more the philosophical aspect that's being removed, but the psychology is all there--there's not as much dialogue, that's all. Which is, in a way, better, because sometimes fewer words have a bigger impact.

[driftking18594]

Sorry for the OT post, but I just read FreakyFilmFan4ever's essay. I could never imagine myself typing out something that long, but at least it gives me some reminders from 2.0.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

There's a much shorter, prehaps better arranged essay I wrote for 1.11 as well. Probably worth a read if you're interested.

[schwarzstahlhelm1993]

Wow, FreakyFilmFan4Ever, that was one hell of an essay! And a good one, at that!

I must say, nothing any studio has ever done before in the anime industry can surpass the über-high production values of the Rebuild of Eva films: the regular animation and the 3D animation are perfectly put together. And those are just the production values...

The characters, particularly in the second film, have been developed very well, to the point that Shinji is now called "badass". I call him badass. That's something you don't see every day with a whiny teenager with a large mech (*cough* Gundam Unicorn *cough*).

[robin007bond]

Mari's introduction was unnecessary. Her purpose now is pure fanservice.

I hope that Anno will make something better out of her, instead of having her as sexual object only.