Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Anno Interview

[1731298478]

Here's my attempt at part one of Hideaki Anno's CRC 2.0 interview. There will surely be mistakes or awkward renditions, so corrections or suggestions would be very much appreciated. I have marked passages where I felt some particular uncertainty. I included some notes explaining terms I found hard to translate. However, my knowledge of animation-related terms is fairly limited, so perhaps Reichu or someone else can correct me or elaborate upon them. Once again, very many thanks to Reichu for the material ^__^

大きく変えたきっかけは『序』次回予告の反響
The response to the "Break" preview as the impetus for major changes

---『破』に関してお聞きしていきたいと思います。『破』と『序』と並行でシナリオや設定などプリプロダクションを開発されてましたよね。それは連続して制作、公開する予定だったからだと思います。その方針が大きく変わり、『序』の公開時にあったシナリオを改訂していくことになった経緯からおうかがいしたいです。変わった時期としては、やはり『序』の公開された直後でしょうか。
--- I'd like to ask you about "Break." Preproduction for "Break" - including work on the scenario and the "settei" [1] - was underway at the same time as "Prelude." That was because, I think, they were consecutive works, planned to be successively released. That plan was significantly changed. I'd like to hear how it came about that you revised the script that existed at the time of the "Prelude" premiere. Things changed just following the premiere, right?

[1] Lit. "establishment." As far as I understand it, "settei" refers to all designs, drawings, and information used to establish or flesh out the world of the animation and its characters, and to inform and direct the process of animation itself.

庵野 そうですね。それからですね、大きく変更したのは。
Anno: Right. It was from that point that the big changes were made.

---いろんな取材から推察すると、『序』の現場が佳境に入る前にシナリオができていたようですね。樋口(真嗣)さんもその時点のバージョンのシナリオでコンテを描かれたとおっしゃってます。
--- If I was to make a conjecture on the basis of the various [CRC] interviews, during work on "Prelude" there was a version of the script that did not yet include the most interesting parts. [*] (Shinji) Higuchi-san said that he had drawn storyboards based upon the script at that time.

庵野 確かにホン(脚本)は『序』の作業と並行して二〇〇七年の三月まで書いていますね。脚本第11稿というのが決定稿になっています。絵コンテもそれ以前の脚本から『序』と並行して作業を進めていて、分量的には全体の三分の二ぐらいは、すでに第一稿が上がっていたと思います。『序』が終わったら現場の間を空けず、連続して『破』を作業に入る予定でしたから。しかし、それはかないませんでしたね。公開後に、二本目の内容はゼロスタートで見直そうと決めてしまったので。
Anno: Certainly, a script had been written by March 2007, at the same time "Prelude" was being made. The eleventh draft became the final version of that script. Work on the storyboards was also taking place during "Prelude" from that earlier version of the script. From the point of view of quantity, I think the first drafts were already completed for about two thirds of the whole. That's because we had planned to begin work on "Break" without any pause or interruption once "Prelude" was finished. However, I couldn't live up to it. After the premiere [of "Prelude"], I decided to look again at the content of the second part, starting from zero.

---それは、『序』で観客の反応がすごく良かったということが大きな理由ですか。
--- Was the highly favorable reaction of the viewers at the premiere a significant reason for that?

庵野　ええ。まずは新宿ミラノ座での「予告」の反応を聞いてからですね。劇場映画ですが、シリーズと同じフォーマットにしたかったので、「予告」は企画当初から入れるつもりでした。いつもの曲だし、サービスとして旧作からのお客さんも喜んでくれるだろうと。しかし、あそこまで反響が大きいとは予想外でした。本来、二本目まで間が空くし、その緩和のためにも最後に「予告」をつけることで期待値を盛り上げ、お客さんの中にはここがピークになる人もいるだろうとある程度は予測もしていましたが、思っていた以上でしたね。特に新キャラです、予想外に反応が大きかったのは。
Anno: Yeah. It started after I heard the reaction to the preview at the Milano theater in Shinjuku. ["Prelude"] was a theatrical film, but because I wanted the format to be the same as the TV series, I intended from the beginning to insert a "preview" [at the end]. The same music would be used. I thought, as "service," it would please the viewers of the original work. However, I didn't expect that big a reaction. Originally, I thought, because there would be a "gap" until the second part, attaching a preview at the end would increase the viewers' anticipation. I also expected that, among the viewers, there would be some for whom this [preview] would be "peak" of the film. However, this was more than I imagined. In particular, the reaction to the new character was bigger than I expected.

---私の行った劇場でも、最後の最後でもものすごく盛り上がってました。
--- At the theater I went to, [the crowd] was extremely charged up, even at the very end.

庵野　そうなんです。あそこまで期待されるとは、思っていませんでした。観に行っていたスタッフも感動して、興奮してましたね。
Anno: Right. I didn't expect that much. The staff who went to see [the film] were also deeply impressed and excited [by the reaction].

最初に考えていたプロットでは、新キャラが大きく活躍するのは三本目からだったんです。二本目は顔見せ的な、ちょっとした出番でしか考えていませんでした。旧作から出ているので、あまり新キャラというイメージはないんですが、実はアスカも『新劇場版』では二本目から出てくる重要な新キャラなんです。なので、どうしてもアスカにウエイトがかかるだろうから、二本目ではまだ新キャラはそんなに重く扱う気はなかったんです。しかし、観客の新キャラに対するあれだけの期待には、もう応えるしかないだろうと、出番を増やす方向に路線変更となりました。まずそこから二本目の見直し作業を始めた感じです。『破』に関する意識が大きく変わったのは「予告」の反応の大きさ、お客さんの熱量によってですね。そこに僕の心が動かされ、作品の舵が大きく動き出したんです。
In the first version of the plot I thought of, the new character would have a very active role from the third part on. I didn't think the chracter would do any more than make an appearance in the second part. Although, because she appeared in the original series, she doesn't seem much like a new character, Asuka was also a highly important "new character" who, in the Rebuild films, would appear from the second part on. Because I would surely place emphasis upon [?] Asuka, I didn't intend to seriously deal with a new character in the second part. However, there was so much anticipation for the new character among the viewers that I felt I had to respond to that. So, I decided to increase the number of the new character's appearances. It was at that point that I first began the work of reviewing the second part. The strength of the response to the preview, the intensity of the viewers, significantly changed the way I looked at "Break." It moved my heart, and the "rudder" of the work began to significantly shift.

---実際の作業はどう変わっていったのでしょうか。
--- How did the actual work [process] change?

庵野　中身、つまり脚本もありますが、まずは作り方、作業方式の見直しからですね。
Anno: There was the content of the film, the script, but I began by looking at how I was making the films.

一本目 『序』のときは中途半端にTV版の再現にこだわっていた気がするんです。とにかくお金もないし人手もないし時間もかけられないので、過去の素材をうまく組み直そうと。再現することに細かくこだわり過ぎて、タイムシートのタイミングもそのまま変えずに作っていました。で、『序』の途中で「別に、シート変えてもいいじゃん」と気づいたんですよ。妙な感じかもしれませんが、なんだか「デジタル撮影の新作」なのに「フィルムの再編集」という一等最初の「言葉」にとらわれ過ぎていたんです。『序』の初号試写のときに「ここまで全面的に画を直すんだったら、もっと画コンテから描き換えても良かったんじゃないか」とも感じました。基本コンセプトとしてあえて旧作と同じところから始める、というのがあったですが、逆にそこにこだわりすぎた感じもありました。なので、二本目からはもう旧作へのこだわり的なものは捨てて、全部新作の気持ちで作ろうと。ゼロからの出発です。
During the making of the first part, "Prelude," I feel like I was half-fixated [?] on reenacting the TV series. Because we had lacked money, workers, and time, I wanted to recreate the old material. I was so fixated on the idea of reenaction that I was making [the film] without deviating from the timing of the [original] timesheets. Half-way through I realized that it was okay to alter the timesheets. Although it might seem strange, despite [the film being] a kind of "new, digital satsuei [2] work," I was overly hung up on the initial phrase, "film remake." During the initial screening of "Prelude," I felt that, if I had gone this far in updating all the images, I could have deviated a bit more from the [original] storyboards. [?] The original conception was that the films would start out from the same place as the TV series, but I felt I was too fixated upon that place. So, from the second part onwards, I intended to abandon those elements "fixated" on the original series and proceed with the feeling that I was making an entirely new work. I would set out from "ground zero."

[2] Lit. "photography" - process of convering cels to film. I believe CG and so on is added at this time.

まずは、当然ながら脚本から直していこうと思いました。脚本もその段階ではまだまだ旧作に沿った展開をしていたり、原画流用などを念頭に置いたものだったので、そこから変えていこうと。プロット、箱書を一度まっさらの状態に戻したところでゼロから見直したです。そこで全体的ストーリの流れ、ドラマの検証と、マリという新キャラ確立のために、監督陣と鶴巻の声がけで改めて参加してくれた榎戸（洋司）さんとで箱書の検討を主とした合宿をしました。男ばっかり、熱海で二泊三日のカンヅメ状態です。そのときに摩砂雪から「タイトル明けは墓参りから始めたい」とか、榎戸さんから「シンジとマリがラブラブになる」などの斬新なアイデアやプロットの大幅な修正案も出てきて。それからですね、大幅な見直し作業が本格始動したのは。
To begin with, I naturally thought I would correct my mistake by altering the script. The scripted plot, at that stage, was still developing in accordance with the original work, and with a view to utilizing the genga [3] of the original work, so from that point I decided to make changes. I returned the plot and the outline to their initial state and rexamined things from the beginning. In order to examine the drama and the course of the plot as a whole, and to establish the new character, Mari, I held a retreat. This mainly involved scrutinizing the outline with the directoral camp and (Yoji) Enokido-san, who was participating once again [owing to Tsurumaki's suggestion ?]. It was only men; we shut ourselves up in Atami for three days and two nights. At that point new ideas and drastic amendments to the plot were proposed - for example, Masayuki's suggestion that, following the main title, the film begin with the graveyard visit, or Enokido-san's suggestion of a Shinji-Mari "Love Love" pairing. From that point, a full-scale revision had seriously begun.

[3] Lit. "original images" or "primary images" - key animation cels (I believe).

---アバンでマリが出てくること自体は変わっていませんか。
--- No changes were made to Mari's appearance in the pre-title sequence itself?

庵野　そうですね。「マリや仮設５号機、第３の使徒など、これまで見たことがないキャラやメカ、箱根ではないベタニアベースという新たな舞台をド頭から出す」という内容は、箱書の第一稿から変わりませんでした。戦闘の段取りやマリのセイフ、性格などは変化していますが、アバンの物語の流れそのものは変わってないです。旧作からの客さんにも、初めて『破』から入る一見さんにも、インパクトを味わってほしかったので。旧作を知っている人には知らないこと尽くしで唐突ながらも、加持という人物で共通項を得ていると、とりあえずは安心してもらえるかなと。セリフが日本語字幕で英語とロシア語スタートというもそうです。まずはこれまでと違う印象から映画を始めたかったんです。
Anno: Right. Mari and the provisional Unit-05, the third angel, and so on - the idea of beginning with this character and this mecha that we've never seen before, and this new setting, "Bethany Base," outside of Hakone - this remained unchanged from the first draft outline. The plan of the battle, Mari's dialogue and personality - these sort of things changed, but the course itself, the general course of the story of the pre-title seqeunce, didn't change. I wanted it to impact both viewers of the original series and people for whom "Break" was their first time seeing Eva. I thought that, although people familiar with the original series would be overwhelmed with unfamilar things [?], because of Kaji, there was a common denominator which could enable them to feel secure for the moment. Starting with English and Russian dialogue with Japanese subtitles was the same. First of all, I wanted to begin the film with the impression of things being different than they have been up until now.

---仮設５号機も見慣れた二足歩行型のEVAではありませんでした。
--- The provisional Unit-05 was not a familiar EVA with a "bipedal" form.

庵野　そうですね。すぐに区別できる形状の見慣れないEVAを登場させたいというのと、アバンはEVAも使徒もフルCGにした画面づくりをやってみたかったんです。フルCGでの戦闘自体が『エヴァ』では見慣れない映像でアバン向けだし、フルCGでどこまでEVAの戦闘ができるのか、技術的なところや制作上の段取りなども含めて試せればいいか、という実験的意図もあります。複雑な形状、ディテールや、四脚など手描きでは大変な手間暇がかかり、なかなか描きづらいデザインにして、走行や動きもCGでなければ効率良く描けない戦闘場面というものを、この機会に試してみたかったんです。使徒もCG前提の複雑なデザインにまとめました。背動（背景動画）という、これまたCG向きな演出の画づくりも含めてですね。あと、アバンだと作品の冒頭なので制作スケジュールも十分あるだろうと。だったら、フルCGの戦闘場面をアニマティクスとか使って、いろいろと問題点があっても検討、検証時間があるんじゃないかという目論みもありました。
Anno: Right. I wanted to introduce an unfamiliar Eva with a form you could immediately identify as different. I also wanted, for the pre-title sequence, to try to create fully CG images, including the angel and the Eva. A fully CG battle was itself, within Eva, an unfamiliar image, [so I wanted to use it] for the pre-title sequence. I also had an "experimental" intention. To what extent was a fully CG Eva battle possible? I thought it would be good if we could test technical things out or experiment with how things are set up within the work. The form and details were complex, with the four legs, and so on. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to draw by hand; the design is considerably difficult to draw. It was a battle scene where the movement and so on couldn't be efficiently drawn if we didn't use CG, so I wanted to take this opportunity to experiment with it. We had also put together a complex design for the angel intended to be rendered in CG. The background animation was also something where its creation was directed with an eye to CG. [?] I figured, in addition, that the pre-title sequence was the beginning of the work, so there was plenty of time left on the production schedule. Even if there were various difficulties with a full CG battle scene, I figured that we had plenty of time to investigate the difficulties using animatics [4] and so on.

[4] I'm not very familiar with the term; see NAveryW's reply below.

でもこれは結局、諸々で時間がなくなって、アニマティクスもうまく作用したカットがありますが、総括するとあまり思惑どうりとはいかず、ちと残念でした。手描きのエフェクトを追加したり、CGの爆発を取り入れたり、撮影処理も含め時間がいっぱいぎりぎりまであれこれ試行錯誤し続けた結果、画面としてのでき上がりにはその甲斐があったと思いますが。
However, in the end, for various reasons, we ran out of time. There were cuts that worked well in the animatics, but, to sum things up, they didn't really go as planned, which was a bit unfortunate. [?] Among other things, we added in hand-drawn effects, and introduced CG explosions. Including the satsuei treatment, we continued experimenting with various things until we almost ran out of time. As an on-screen image, I think the final result paid off. However...

---『序』でもEVAはCGを使っていましたが、アクションが加わってぐっと進化しましたね。
--- CG was used in "Prelude," but here there is more action, and things have much progressed.

庵野　そうですね。EVAをうまく描ける原画マンが限られている中でクォリティの維持と向上を意図するなら、歩く、走るなどの動きが本来リピートで済むみたいなところは極力CGに置き換えたいな、という考えは当初からありました。使徒も３号機（第９の使徒）と最後の第１０の使徒以外はすべてCG主体でやろうとプロット時から考えていました。『序』の逆パターンです。あとのときは手描きから始まって、最後がフルCGですから。トータルで現場を見たときの手書きとCGの作業量の分散ということも考えて、それを脚本に反映させています。いつも制作的リスクを鑑みて、戦闘シーンの回数や分量も先に決めてから箱書や脚本作業に入っていますね。
Anno: Yeah. With people who can draw the Eva genga really well being limited, if I wanted to maintain or increase the quality - I thought from the outset that I wanted to replace, as much as possible, elements like walking and running movements, which would originally just get repeated [?], with CG. The angels, as well - since I conceived of the plot I intended to make all the angels mostly CG, excluding Unit-03 (the ninth angel) and the final tenth angel - the opposite of the pattern from "Prelude." There, we began with hand-drawn angels, and ended with full CG. I considered the total amount of work to be done and its allocation between hand-drawn and CG parts, and the script reflects that consideration. [?] I always take production-related risks into account, so the number or amount of battle scenes are decided in advance, before starting the script or the script outline.

[NAveryW]

I don't have much to say in response to this, but I do want to thank you for translating it.

An animatic is basically the storyboard set as... not quite an animation, but timed to how the final movie will look. It usually has voiceovers and sometimes sound effects and music. It's also known as a leica reel.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Awesome, interesting stuff! I like how this interview shows that Anno was indeed planning the film in advance (so to speak).

Are you also going to translate the 1.0 interview as well? Can't wait to see the rest of the 2.0 CRC interview!

Thank you, Number-kun!

[1731298478]

An animatic is basically the storyboard set as... not quite an animation, but timed to how the final movie will look. It usually has voiceovers and sometimes sound effects and music. It's also known as a leica reel.

Thanks!! I replaced the footnote, for now, with just a reference to your post; I hope you don't mind.

Are you also going to translate the 1.0 interview as well?

I'd definitely like to try, when the 2.0 interview is finished. I suspect that both Anno interviews will be interesting reads.

One note, I accidentally wrote that Tsurumaki suggested opening with the graveyard visit when it was actually Masayuki. I edited the first post to correct that.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Very interesting. I figured that's was the deal with Mari was. All she seemed to be in 2.0 was build-up to 3.0, and this explains why it felt like that.

[Xard]

Awesome stuff


you know, I start to feel like Anno does know what he is doing, again...

[Reichu]

Thank you so much, Number-kun. The rough edges are okay for now; being able to read this stuff at all is a real treat!

From what I've been able to gather, settei are basically "model sheets", i.e. the drawings that are made as references for the animators to keep everything consistent. And genga is key frame animation, yeah. I'd have to research some of the other ones.

[RyienKu]

Much appreciated.

[Azathoth]

you know, I start to feel like Anno does know what he is doing, again...

I think he may feel the same way...to be honest, the way he puts it, it almost sounds like this started out as purely money-making "let's recap the TV series in HD" project and with the beginning of work on 2.0 mutated into something else

[Kendrix]

I think he may feel the same way...to be honest, the way he puts it, it almost sounds like this started out as purely money-making "let's recap the TV series in HD" project and with the beginning of work on 2.0 mutated into something else

If we go by the initial statement, it's less money making and more "polishing it up"/ "showing it to a new generation"/"making sure it isn't misunderstood again".

In a way, 2.0 was trapped between being "the original story spelt out" and "something completely different/a deviation." (the former being the original concept and the latter arising, as the Tsurumaki Interviews suggest, with Mari's creation or, as we see here, the fan reaction. It's so cute XD Anno is actually surprised that ppl are that happy to get more EVA XD I guess humbleness is what keeps him wanting to improve.)
The amazing thing is, they made "to change/not to change" the actual theme of the movie (hence "You can (not) advance",) and channelled all these feelings into the developement of the characters, particulary Shinji's.


Oh, and look! They DID have a plan! I'm so glad to know that Q will apparently have lots of Mari. You can never have enough Mari, right? And Kaworu will be in there, too. Lots and lots of my fav chars! And it will be mostly new stuff. I guess I'm going to LOVE Q.
(if it ever comes out, that is.... )

[GasmaskAvenger]

to be honest, the way he puts it, it almost sounds like this started out as purely money-making "let's recap the TV series in HD" project and with the beginning of work on 2.0 mutated into something else

and thus what fucked up Rebuild

it should've been "something else" all the way back on square one, because now 1.0 is utterly useless and meant for a completely different series of movies that have been lost in time

[Reichu]

now 1.0 is utterly useless and meant for a completely different series of movies that have been lost in time

Beware Evangelion 1.111!

[NAveryW]

now 1.0 is utterly useless and meant for a completely different series of movies that have been lost in time

The same could be said for the first half of NGE.

[Shogo-Kun]

and thus what fucked up Rebuild

it should've been "something else" all the way back on square one, because now 1.0 is utterly useless and meant for a completely different series of movies that have been lost in time

Actually, I think it all worked in Anno's favor. 1.0 established that "this is EVA", but it was destined for bigger and better things. Hence when 2.0 came, he confirmed that "this a new EVA". Call it trolling if want, but to me it felt like he unintentionally threw the old fans for a loop, but Rebuild is better for it.

In other words, screwing with your audience can be fun if done right!

[SaltyJoe]

Number-kun is the Man! I'm really eager to see the rest of these interviews, when Anno honeslty gets into the meat of [s]how much he likes Yamato and Ultraman[/s] the things that motivated him while making 2.0.

I'm so glad to know that Q will apparently have lots of Mari. You can never have enough Mari, right?

Anything if it means a break from Shinji and his Daddy Issues.

[C.A.P.]

Yup, the previous interviews weren't lying; Anno hasn't changed one bit.

Can't wait for future debates regarding the movies to use statements like "I was so fixated on the idea of reenaction that I was making [the film] without deviating from the timing of the [original] timesheets" to their own advantage.

(BTW, 1731, like I said, stop being so awesome)

[Warren Peace]

and thus what fucked up Rebuild

it should've been "something else" all the way back on square one, because now 1.0 is utterly useless and meant for a completely different series of movies that have been lost in time

Oh come on, that's silly. Serialized storytelling is all about this kind of evolution. Contrary to popular belief, George Lucas didn't know that

SPOILER: Show

Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father (OMG!)

when he made A New Hope. Does the invention of that idea in Empire make ANH "utterly useless"? Of course not. When you write long stories like this, elements are going to be modified and eliminated in the telling. Like NAveryW said, this happened in the original series too.

[GasmaskAvenger]

that's one thing


my whole issues is less on that and more on my belief that 1.0 should've been "a brand new ballgame" where it shows that this is not the EVA from the 90s


that's the gidst of it

[penguintruth]

It looks like he basically admitted he wasn't fully committed to Mari.

[Mr. Tines]

my belief that 1.0 should've been "a brand new ballgame"

Yes -- 1.x is from Anno's super-robot series from the 90s, 2.x is from his new super-robot series. They just shouldn't be sharing characters and titles like that.