Misato the slut?

[Sgt. Griff]

Much more appropriate thread would be Kaji the manwhore.

Relax, I'm joking

[Allemann]

There is nothing in that dialogue that says Kaji was Misato's only sexual partner in her life. Only that as her sexual partner he's privy to her secret of smoking cigarettes after sex.

[Bagheera]

There is nothing in that dialogue that says Kaji was Misato's only sexual partner in her life. Only that as her sexual partner he's privy to her secret of smoking cigarettes after sex.

Since he's the only one who knows that it follows that he's her only partner. If he wasn't others would know! Also, if that weren't her intent the line would be pretty much meaningless.

[Jayfive]

She is not a slut.

she is mai waifu

[Allemann]

Since he's the only one who knows that it follows that he's her only partner. If he wasn't others would know!

Who are those others?

Also, if that weren't her intent the line would be pretty much meaningless.

Her intent wasn't to tell Kaji that he was the only man with whom she had sex in her entire life.

[SaltyJoe]

In the realm of needles nitpicking, the only meaning we could gleam from the sentence is that Misato used to smoke regularly at some point in time, but now only does so after sex, and Kaji is her only sexual partner who witnessed this. This does not preclude that she had sex on other occasions when she did not smoke after intercourse. After all, she never said she always smokes after sex.

In the realm of wild fanwankery, we could assume that Misato had several partners, all of whom are dead or otherwise incapacitated in their ability to know of Misato's habit.

In the realm of Adam Kadmon-esque angstfics, Misato had sex before picking up smoking, since she was raped by her father six times a day before she hit fourteen. It's so obvious, it's right there in the show!

In the realm of naturally interpreting lines of dialog, it means exactly what Bagheera says.

[Allemann]

In the realm of naturally interpreting lines of dialog, it means exactly what Bagheera says.

It would mean this only if you already convinced yourself that it means this.

[Bagheera]

Who are those others?

Other sexual partners, who would see her smoking since she does it after having sex. You could argue that she's had others but chosen not to smoke after the act, but the delivery of her lines shows that this is not the case. She says "I only smoke after something like this. So the only one who knows is (you,) Kaji-kun." Her second line is given as a natural conclusion to the first, so her meaning there is quite clear.

Her intent wasn't to tell Kaji that he was the only man with whom she had sex in her entire life.

That's exactly her intent. And he grasps it clearly, which is why his response is "I'm honored." Of course you could argue that she only started smoking with Kaji, and that he was not her first, but the timeline makes that line of reasoning difficult.

The lines are not a mathematical proof, but they don't have to be -- their meaning is quite clear for those who have engaged in normal human conversation at some point in their lives.

[CJD]

That's exactly her intent. And he grasps it clearly, which is why his response is "I'm honored."

Alternatively, he's "Honored" because she entrusted him with such an intimate detail of her life. No one else in her day to day life knows she smokes, but now he does.

The lines are not a mathematical proof, but they don't have to be -- their meaning is quite clear for those who have engaged in normal human conversation at some point in their lives.

Awfully dismissive, no?

[Bagheera]

Alternatively, he's "Honored" because she entrusted him with such an intimate detail of her life. No one else in her day to day life knows she smokes, but now he does.

That's a stupid reason to feel honored. Now compare that to the knowledge that he's the only one she let into her bed. Which seems like a better reason to feel honored?

Awfully dismissive, no?

Yes. He's being stupid about it, so I'm dismissing him.

[Allemann]

She says "I only smoke after something like this. So the only one who knows is (you,) Kaji-kun." Her second line is given as a natural conclusion to the first, so her meaning there is quite clear.

"Only one" can have various universes of discourse, depending on the speaker. It could mean in this context: "The only one of persons currently relevant to our lives -- Shinji, Asuka, Ritsuko, other Nerv staff, etc -- by the virtue of having sex with me.", or "It's inappropriate and tactless to speak explicitly about plurality of sexual partners in front of one, so I'll refer only to him." Who exactly is excluded and included with "only you" is unclear and is worthless in showing that Misato isn't a slut.

That's exactly her intent. And he grasps it clearly, which is why his response is "I'm honored."

He's honored by knowing that she smokes. The topic he started is about her smoking.

[CJD]

"Only one" can have various universes of discourse, depending on the speaker. It could mean in this context: "The only one of persons currently relevant to our lives -- Shinji, Asuka, Ritsuko, other Nerv staff, etc -- by the virtue of having sex with me.", or "It's inappropriate and tactless to speak explicitly about plurality of sexual partners in front of one, so I'll refer only to him." Who exactly is excluded and included with "only you" is unclear and is worthless in showing that Misato isn't a slut.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was saying yesterday.

That's a stupid reason to feel honored. Now compare that to the knowledge that he's the only one she let into her bed. Which seems like a better reason to feel honored?

There's nothing stupid about being honored that someone entrusted you with a highly personal secret.

Yes. He's being stupid about it, so I'm dismissing him.

Oh come now, you're better than that. Being dismissive is one thing, attempting to lower his credibility by claiming

their meaning is quite clear for those who have engaged in normal human conversation at some point in their lives.

is the kind of underhanded rhetoric I expect in a political debate, not here.

[esselfortium]

The line means absolutely nothing if it's not intended to be taken at face value as a statement that Misato hasn't slept with anyone else. Her smoking habits themselves aren't a plot point in her character arc, so they're clearly not the point of the line.

NGE is not a reality show. Dialogue like this doesn't just turn up for no reason because there happened to be a camera in the room.

[Bagheera]

Thank you, that's exactly what I was saying yesterday.

And it's just as wrong, because most people take such lines at face value unless given some sort of context to suggest they ought to do otherwise. There is no such context here, so there's no reason to think she means anything other than what she actually says.

There's nothing stupid about being honored that someone entrusted you with a highly personal secret.

Except her smoking habit is not a highly personal secret. By contrast her sexual history is.

The argument you and Allemann are making is dodgy even in theory, but it doesn't make a lick of sense when watching the scene as presented.

[Allemann]

The line means absolutely nothing if it's not intended to be taken at face value as a statement that Misato hasn't slept with anyone else.

It can mean something. If you want to make your characters life like, they must also make them have time to small talk. One of Evangelion's features is preoccupation with such pointless trivia like Misato's post-coital smoking, or Ritsuko's butt end heap. Yes, it's pointless and it doesn't move the plot, but necessary for fleshed out characters or a believable dialogue.

[SaltyJoe]

But it's not small talk in the grander scheme of things. The idea of sexual exclusivity strengthens the concept of Misato being in love with Kaji (something that can't be verified through logical analysis but is glaringly obvious otherwise if you consider the way their relationship was depicted in it's entirety), which comes to a dramatic head during her breakdown after learning about his death.

We don't need to convince ourselves that Misato says what she says. The show itself does the convincing.

[CJD]

Except her smoking habit is not a highly personal secret. By contrast her sexual history is.

Then why doesn't anyone else know about it? Surely something like that would come up in conversation with Ritsuko. Without the details yes, but something like "Oh I still smoke occasionally".

[Bagheera]

Then why doesn't anyone else know about it? Surely something like that would come up in conversation with Ritsuko. Without the details yes, but something like "Oh I still smoke occasionally".

Not really. If she only does it after having sex and she hasn't had sex since breaking up with Kaji in college it's not like it'd ever come up.

[Warren Peace]

Just one general note about all this:

We tend to credit every single thing in the show to Hideaki Anno. He's the chief figure, of course, and as showrunner he's responsible for continuity and any mistakes that may slip past. But there were a lot of cooks in this kitchen, some of whom may have different impressions (or misconceptions) about who Misato is. It could be that some things got through that do not necessarily add up. We like to think that EVERY shot, EVERY detail is constructed to lead us somewhere... but they can screw up. Anno himself even has a change of heart about characters, I bet. If 2+2=5, you can hack away until the 5 looks more like a 4, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. This seems like something where the 5s and 4s got mixed together sometimes.

[BC Baron]

Like a lot of dialogue in NGE, I think the pillow talk between Kaji and Misato could be interpreted in at least a couple of different ways, depending on what the viewer wants to read into it. Now I must admit I'm no expert when it comes to what goes on in the bedroom, so please take my analysis with a grain of salt. Anyway, I figured I would just throw in my two cents worth here.

加持「たばこ、まだ吸ってたんだな」
Kaji: (I see that) you still smoke cigarettes.

I won't rule out the possibility that Misato might consider her smoking habits to be an intimate detail of her personal life that she would prefer to share only with a sexual partner. Some people just prefer to compartmentalize things like that. For all I know she views smoking as a vice she's ashamed of (as opposed to excessive drinking), or perhaps her past smoking habits were widely known to anyone who knew her from her college days (like Ritsuko), but somewhere along the way she convinced those people that she quit and doesn't want them thinking she lacks willpower; can't really say for sure.

ミサト「こういうことの後にしか吸わないわ。だから知ってるのは加持君だけよ」
Misato: I only smoke after something like this. So the only one who knows is (you,) Kaji-kun.

At the risk of getting Freudian (and trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about), I suppose when Misato says "something like this" she might have been referring to specific sexual activities that she's only comfortable performing with Kaji, but not with other partners. I don't know. I've heard that some people attach sexual symbolism to the act of smoking itself - oral fixations or whatever. There's probably an entire thread somewhere on this forum devoted to the debate of whether a cigar is just a cigar. Enough said.

For me, the words "something like this" are sufficiently vague to suggest different interpretations. Maybe Misato just meant particularly satisfying sex. She could have had several other sexual experiences since college that weren't nearly as good and, thus, no smoking afterwards. Perhaps what made this particular session cigarette-worthy might have had something to do with her feelings for Kaji. Either that or maybe the guy is just very skilled. I mean, he supposedly took a week off once back in the day for the purpose of marathon sex with Misato, so he probably has a pretty good idea of what she likes in bed.

"It's inappropriate and tactless to speak explicitly about plurality of sexual partners in front of one...

Once again, I'm a bit out of my element here, but I'm inclined to agree. I think it's entirely possible that Misato has had several sexual partners since her relationship with Kaji ended. The same can probably be said for Kaji, as well. I don't recall the exact time frame, but I thought it was years since they were an item. They're both young, attractive people without rings on their fingers and a tendency to visit bars after work. Each of them still remember living through the horrors of Second Impact and probably experienced enough loneliness at some point to actively seek out some form of temporary companionship.

Also, even if you believe that Misato's statement to Kaji directly implies that she has not ever had sex with anyone else in her entire life, isn't it just as possible that she's lying to him? Maybe she doesn't want to kill the mood and open a whole can of worms by being brutally honest and openly discussing all of her sexual history. She could be trying to spare Kaji's feelings, or perhaps she regrets some of her unsuccessful past relationships and wishes to deny they ever happened. I thought people lie about sex all the time in real life. Am I way off base or does this simply not apply to fictional characters?

Having said all that, I guess I must be fairly liberal when it comes to this topic. Even though I believe Misato and Kaji probably each had several sexual partners somewhere along the way between the time of their break-up and the rekindling of their relationship, I don't think that means they were cheating on each other and I wouldn't call either of them sluts. They were a couple of people dealing with the emotional scars of Second Impact, trying to fulfill their respective duties while moving forward in their personal lives, coping with the backdrop of a war against the Angels and hoping to find some sense of connection with someone. I hereby declare them flawed, but normal.

Now Gendo, on the other hand, was a serious SLUT. No question. That guy would bang just about anything in a white labcoat (provided there was even a small chance that said conquest could somehow advance his scenario). He was one sick puppy.