Shinji's sexuality

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AuraTwilight
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Postby AuraTwilight » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:51 pm

Shinji likes girls and boys, but only the latter when his sexuality is at 0%.

oh ho ho do u get it gaiz?

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Postby BC Baron » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:26 am

THE Hal E. Burton 9000 wrote:
Joseph the PRPD wrote:Kinsey? Never heard of 'em.
you're kidding, right?

backseatjesus wrote:Hey, here's a question. If Shinji had no Man figure in his life and he most likely didn't take Sex Ed, how the hell did he know how to masturbate?

you're kidding, right?

At the risk of sounding homophobic, the idea of one dude educating another dude in such matters sounds like the gayest thing ever.
Last edited by BC Baron on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:58 am

CATO wrote:anyone who likes Ritsuko is insane
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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:20 am

BC Baron wrote:At the risk of sounding homophobic, the idea of one dude educating another dude in such matters sounds like the gayest thing ever.
well, if you were to be "hands on" with such instruction, that would definitely imply something like that
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Postby Alaska Slim » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:42 am

Synapsid wrote:
Alaska Slim wrote:The informal way to say "you", just as "boku" is the informal way to say "I", which he also uses, stop stretching...
Ehh, if Kaworu was being informal and dealing with a "bro" "omae" would have been it, You did say that Kaworu was polite, To be honest it looks like you're evading.

I 've heard yakuza in Detecive Conan refer to each other this way, so I damn know well there exists an exception to what you are saying, I don't need to evade, I know it, and half your other arguments are just grasping at anything that wasn't set in stone.

Well here is something that was: Evangelion was created with the idea in mind that there is something inherently wrong in the current thinking of the Japanese people, those being, compulsive obsession with fantasy, mass conformity, prolific apathy, and a horrendous and truly destructive identification with death itself.

Shinji, as I have describe him was made to counter those thoughts, to approach them, identify what it is that motivates them, turn them on their head, and hopefully cause people to open theirs eyes in the process. All of this clear, and nobly motivated, and yet, the only reason you can give, the only motive you've ever stated for what you suggest is true of him, despite the potential put all of this in jeopardy, is trolling for the sake of itself.

I‘m sorry, but both the creator, and his creation have shown himself to be far more thoughtful than that. Your view of Shinji may mean something to you, and I by no means wish to take it away if that is the case, but it errs in comparison to what he and his story was meant for.

Synapsid wrote:The theme occurs more than once (and made it's way to the manga)and according to a the sources around it was blocked by the network not Anno so it really seems pointless to dismiss what's in them.

The fallacies here are clear:

The theme you identified is not what you believe it is, and is irrelevant to begin with.

The manga was identified by its own writer as taking a different, more direct path, and has cited himself for the very things you cite as "evidence".

The network theory is something you’ve blown out of its original context, and while you’ve used it to suppose other things, only Timstuff has stated the truth on the matter, we still don’t know how involved they were, in what, and how much Hideaki Anno pulled the plug on himself.

Synapsid wrote:you've now done a reversal

What reversal? Image Even with the proposal, I thought it could only help with things on the peripherary, the trivial facts, like one I think I paid note of was Asuka’s lineage, not details that affect anything on a fundamental level.
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Postby Sachi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:09 am

I believe Shinji to be somewhat sexually confused but ultimately straight. Several times throughout the series he's shown an interest in women (I.e; Hot Springs Scene; falling on Rei; almost kissing Asuka; kissing Asuka; fapping over Asuka; etc.). His passion for Asuka is also expressed in EoE when he claims he wants to help and be with her.

His relationship with Kaworu can easily be perceived as homosexual, but far from it. To Shinji, Kaworu was his first actual friend he felt comfortable opening up to, especially at that particular time of need. He was searching for help, or some sort of emotional support that he could not find in his friends from school (they had all evacuated); not Rei because of what he saw in the Reiquarium; not Misato because of how torn up she was about Kaji, and the whole going crazy to find the truth thing; and not Asuka because she was in a coma. But then, as if sent from God, here comes Kaworu and Shinji finally gets that person to open up and let his feelings out to. Shinji had finally made a close friend who he felt sorta understood him.

On Kaworu's part, one could say that Kaworu was just being Kaworu, and that's the source of everybody thinking they were gay for each other.
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Postby Alaska Slim » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:19 am

Synapsid wrote:
Hideaki Anno also confirmed that Shinji is straight according to AlaskaSlim.
Err, you do know that was based on a Anno quote that never existed.

Synapsid, either openly state you think I'm lying, or be quiet.

And the quote was over Kawrou, Shinji isn't gay, because the people whom he was based upon and was made to emulate are not. Purpose, one must never fail to forget its context.

Synapsid wrote:In fact Anno interviewed with mags like June(an iconic BL/Yaoi publication) and released some scripts that show entirely the opposite,

They show only the beginings of Evangelion's forming and are already conflicting to what we see in the series in several other aspects, least of all timing, while the interviews haven't even been translated yet.

Synapsid wrote:If the information was right then these scripts were what Anno planned to use, the scripts also did fill in several gaps in the show and EoEbut the networks prevented them from using the version he wanted

They only thing the networks clearly have prevented was percieved allusions to the Aum and their sarin gas attacks. Anything else has only been conjecture so far.

Synapsid wrote:and implausible to consider Shinji a completely heteronormative character.

Confusion is granted, not what you are suggesting. :um-no:
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Postby BC Baron » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:23 am

Joseph the PRPD wrote:And as I said previously
-in episode 9 he is tempted to kiss a sleeping Asuka

-in episode 10 he gets aroused hearing Misato and Asuka implying they are touching each other

-and we clearly see it in EoE.

Plus, I forget the # of the episode, but after the battle with the fourteenth angel, while Shinji is still trapped within Unit-01, there was the whole, "Do you want to become one with me?" sequence. I suppose this scene could be interpreted a few different ways, but if you agree that at least one component of what Shinji was experiencing in that moment was some kind of sex/affection fantasy scenario, then perhaps it also qualifies as supporting evidence of his heterosexual preferences, since Misato, Rei and Asuka (in appearance only) are depicted, but there were no images of any guys.
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Postby Sachi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:40 am

BC Baron wrote:Plus, I forget the # of the episode, but after the battle with the fourteenth angel, while Shinji is still trapped within Unit-01, there was the whole, "Do you want to become one with me?" sequence. I suppose this scene could be interpreted a few different ways, but if you agree that at least one component of what Shinji was experiencing in that moment was some kind of sex/affection fantasy scenario, then perhaps it also qualifies as supporting evidence of his heterosexual preferences, since Misato, Rei and Asuka (in appearance only) are depicted, but there were no images of any guys.

I see you had to add that. xP But yes, the episode you're thinking of is #21.

And to go on with what you're saying, Asuka, Rei and Misato are the three leading women in Shinji's life. Misato is more of a mother-figure if anything. But Rei and Asuka may symbolize both aspects of Shinji's love interests.

Rei symbolizes more of a fantasy. She's cute, decent breast size for her age (especially when looked at by someone like Shinji), and she's practically a "doll" as some might put. And after his experience with her falling down in her apartment, he got a taste of a sexual fantasy. In EoE, when Rei is talking to Shinji about remaining in instrumentality, she was basically asking him to live in a fantasy world with her. But this can be argued with Shinji also being asked to stay with Kaworu in instrumentality.

But Asuka, on the other hand, symbolizes reality and, arguably, true love over physical love. She's more of a real person in comparison to Rei, with real reactions and emotions. Shinji lives with her and gets to know her for the person she actually is as opposed to what someone at school might see her as. And he soon falls in love with her (if you believe A/S is canon). In EoE, Shinji chooses to live in reality instead of instrumentality/fantasy with Rei. And in the reality that Shinji chose to go to, Asuka was there (well, technically she came after a while, but that's splitting hairs).

So Asuka, Rei and Misato are the three leading women in Shinji's life, but where are the men? Kaji is a player in Shinji's life, but like Misato, he's more of a parental figure.

Kaworu, on the other hand, isn't a reality nor a fantasy. He's simply a friend to Shinji.
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Postby Allemann » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:24 am

Shinji is straight as an arrow.

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Postby oOoOoOo » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 am

I'm really confuffled by the Alaska-kun/Synapsy-chan debate. Somebody should sum it up to me in a single paragraph. I got really confused when Alaska started mentioned He Who Must Not Be Named, hehe~

Anyway, it is sort of hard to compare Kaworu to the girls too much, since from what we know of Shinji I'd guess that Kaworu would be his first boycrush, if we want to look at it from that angle. In a heteronormative society, it is kind of easier for opposite-sex fantasies and reactions to float around in the brain, whereas same-sex fantasies/attractions are met with more internal resistance and confusion.

I should note that as someone who likes both sexes, Shinji's reactions to Kaworu are not what I'd call platonic. Even if he's bisexual with a strong lean towards opposite-sex attraction, it still seems more evidence suggests that than 100% straight. I'd be more inclined to see the manga Shinji as straight. With the reaction to giant Kaworu vs. Rei in EoE, and the drafts posted in that other thread, I'm inclined to believe Anno felt Shiniji's orientation was either non-heterosexual or simply up for interpretation (like so much of the show).
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Postby LiLi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:39 am

For the curious ones and the archeologists :tongue:, there was also debate on Shinji's sexuality in the Fave Couple thread - most notably from page 58, IIRC.
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Postby oOoOoOo » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:45 am

Thanks Lili-chan for the page number! That thread is scary-big. ^_^ There seems to be a part in the Face Couple thread where Alaska thinks Shinji=Anno. I'm hardly the top Evangelion fan-scholar ever, but I've read lots of stuff (including interviews in the back of the manga) that talks about how Anno put his own personality into several of the characters. In that sense, Misato is also Anno, since Misato represents a more carefree part of Anno's life.

In a creative work with a single lead author, all the characters are ultimately derived from the creator's personality. It seems silly to say that Shinji must be X because Anno-san is X.
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Postby Allemann » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:53 am

This "debate" is inane and pointless as it gets. The are no homosexual undertones of Shinji's and Kaworu's relationships. Do they had to watch football, drink beer, and burp at each others faces to not be labeled as homosexuals? Kaworu was the kindest person to Shinji in the entire series, so, of course, Shinji feels an affection for him. The show is straightforward about this.

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Postby oOoOoOo » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:15 am

Certainly as inane and pointless as any other Eva-related discussion, silly~

There are plenty of more-than-platonic undertones, including the post-coital expression plastered across Shinji's face after giant Rei becomes giant Kaworu. A platonic friend's never made me bliss-out like that. ^_~

Also, I don't think we're really talking about homosexuality any more, specifically, but non-heterosexuality. As far as the stereotypes about sports/beer (being gender) are concerned, I don't know how much that colours my understanding of Shinji's orientation, but the immediate and epic way in which Shinji connects with Kaworu seems very much like a swoon-heavy love-at-first sight megacrush. This doesn't have to make him 100% gay. At the least, there are hints he's bisexual with a strong lean towards opposite-sex attraction. His reactions to Kaworu were very similar to the sorts of reactions (if we want to use anime/manga examples) you see in romancecentric anime. At least, that kind of platonic relationship is rarely portrayed in anime/manga from what I've seen. Anno's pretty familiar with the medium, so I'm guessing he was aware that the roles Shinji and Kaworu were filling are usually filled by a confident member of one sex and a bashful member of the other.

In those situations, often it is a clueless boy denying his obvious attraction for a more confident/outgoing female co-star, or the reversal. This kind of mucking up of typical anime character roles is what the drafts of the relevant episodes really hinted at, and is why everyone was talking about it before the thread got split into... I guess this is a more general discussion of Shinji's sexuality. It isn't the first time a topic has had several threads with different tints to them. ^_^
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:06 am

Well lets look at it this way.

1. Rei, shes cute and nice and all that but really shes a clone of your own mother so that might not be good in the long run plus she carries the soul of the creator of Humanity.

2. Asuka, she is also cute but also drives poor Shinji crazy. He does like her and wishes to be more with her but she just won't let down that wall to let him in. If she did then we could have a happy ending where they carry on...Sort of EoE I guess but a lot less death.

3. Kaworu, hes nice and does not wish to hurt Ikari at all other then when he used 02 on him ^_^; He is an Angel and having it with an Angel has to have some effect on your body but maybe that is a chance worth taking. Maybe they don't have to have any kind of sexual intercourse, just be in love.
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Postby Rock-Slash » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:11 am

oOoOoOo wrote:the post-coital expression plastered across Shinji's face after giant Rei becomes giant Kaworu. A platonic friend's never made me bliss-out like that. ^_~
Certainly, but aside from that Kaworu is never presented in any kind of sexual tone in EoE, unlike the rest of Shinji's crushes, wich is contradictory.

the immediate and epic way in which Shinji connects with Kaworu seems very much like a swoon-heavy love-at-first sight megacrush
Or a plot device, either way is enough to make me dislike they're relationship.

Allemann wrote:Shinji is straight as an arrow.
A sexual repressed arrow...Damn you Kinsey scale.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:15 am

Allemann wrote:Do they had to watch football, drink beer, and burp at each others faces to not be labeled as homosexuals?


What makes you think there aren't uncouth beer-guzzling sports fans who also happen to be gay? Culturally-defined gender roles don't necessarily have anything whatsoever to do with sexual orientation.

rock-slash wrote:contradictory


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Postby oOoOoOo » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:23 am

Haha, plot device? It's almost like Neon Genesis Evangelion is a narrative.

In End of Evangelion I'd say Kaworu is presented sexually, since his efforts to become one with Shinji are the only ones that are happily accepted. While this is really all about the union of souls, Anno-san nevertheless often portrays the "become one with me" scenes in a very sexual way (naked characters sitting on top of Shinji's penis leaning towards him like they'll make out with him, etc.). Kaworu's scene as a naked giant isn't as explicit, but it does remind me of those earlier dreamfucks.
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Postby Rock-Slash » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:24 am

NemZ wrote:Sexuality is a spectrum, not a yes/no questionnaire.

Contradictory as in: Kaworu was presented in a very sexual way the first scene then he spent the rest of the movie totally clothed
Last edited by Rock-Slash on Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.


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