Do you think the Human Instrumentality Project could happen?

[Hiromakuta]

All I know is, if there was a way to do it, some slavering religious nut would eventually get their hands on the button, and press it while shrieking exultations to no one but themselves. (Can you say SEELE?)

Also, I really, really wouldn't want to be a part of it.

Ditto.

[Zuggy]

The HIP is the ulimate act of running away.

[Mr. Tines]

Running away from what? What's wrong with the pursuit of happiness? I think it's an excellent idea; and so do other people. This site is worth a read:-

http://paradise-engineering.com/heaven.htm

[TsubasaNoKoikokoro]

I would probally give into instruementality if I never saw Evangelion. But you never know unless it happens.

And instruementality is in a sense real. The fusion of all beings into one is possible... But not available in modern technology.

[Shnooks]

If your just referring to merging everyones conciousness, I'm sure that sometime in the future a way to do this technologically will probably be developed.

Isn't there something similar to that in "The Beast That Shouted Love at The Heart Of The World" by Harlan Elison? The short story in the middle of the book is kind of like that, I think. I didn't really understand it.

I think, if there is an Instrumentality project, and the public was notified of its presence, the people would generally accept it. I think its just a weird thing - y'know, like the more republcians, the bigger the republican and vote.

Myself? I would like to go through itj ust for the experience! LIKE COLLEGE.

xD

[Hiromakuta]

If your just referring to merging everyones conciousness, I'm sure that sometime in the future a way to do this technologically will probably be developed.

Isn't there something similar to that in "The Beast That Shouted Love at The Heart Of The World" by Harlan Elison? The short story in the middle of the book is kind of like that, I think. I didn't really understand it.

I think, if there is an Instrumentality project, and the public was notified of its presence, the people would generally accept it. I think its just a weird thing - y'know, like the more republcians, the bigger the republican and vote.

Myself? I would like to go through itj ust for the experience! LIKE COLLEGE.

xD

I really doubt it. The religious communities would dubbed it "Anti-God" or something along these lines , so it would be widely rejected. And that´s just saying one reason!

[DatDude]

If it happined for real I like to think id have the wiil power to come back to reality.

[Zuggy]

ANUS.com talking here. Deleted.

[Takumi Fujiwara]

The Singularity Institute - about the turn of the century; but the idea of the accelerating future development of technology and its implications on the (super-)human future had been in discussion for at least a couple of decades previously.

SEELE - NERV and GEHIRN's secret backers, who wish to implement the Human Instrumentality Project. Consists of twelve prominent people; five of them form The Instrumentality Committee, which directly oversees NERV's progress, officially in the name of UN. (German for "soul")

Oh noes! :shock:

[TehDonutKing]

That depends on your religion. If you're Buddhist or Hindu, that's your equivalent to Heaven.

[sephirotic]

What Im asking is if you belive that there could or ever would be a Human Instermentality Project. Yea I know its kinda a dumn ? but Im new and all so forgive me.

Not only i think is possible, but i also believe something similar is very close of happening as i speak in this post on the other topic about the matter:

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=358763#358763

ill check out Mr. Times links, i already saw some enginers speaking how they plan on connecting the brains directly with a computer/internet, and eventually wich each other, throung bioenginnering. Essentialy ths is exactly what Naoko and her daughter studied during the magi development and the base technology to allow connecting and control of the nerv system of the evangelions.

While the instrumentality happening throung gigantic godlike creatures is obviously fantasious in the series, the biologic explanation, biocomputer concept however are very avant gard and realistic, a instrumentality happing through direct connection via a global net, similar/linked to the internet, is likely to cause a similar conscious evolutionary effect. Through it probably won´t be permanet and we could disconnect from the next as soon as we log off... Question remains if we could actually abandon our bodies, if that would be a nice thing, and where all the minds and memories be stored if not on fragile biologic brains. We still need a body/interface as a giant mind to survive in the universe and keep exploring the universe.

[AuraTwilight]

That depends on your religion. If you're Buddhist or Hindu, that's your equivalent to Heaven.

Not really.

[konfunoodle]

kind of. with the whole sense of escaping the cylce of life and death. running away from life, which life=pain. and the whole concept of all being one and vice versa. Eva just had it's own unique version, though I doubt it could really happen like that.

[AuraTwilight]

...I'm going to sidestep a religious argument and just say that you are grossly misinterpreting the Nirvana concepts of Hindu and Buddhism, and that SEELE equating their goals to the concept is the same as Christian fundamentalists wiping out Muslims in the Crusades to "spread the faith."

[Merridian]

kind of. with the whole sense of escaping the cylce of life and death. running away from life, which life=pain. and the whole concept of all being one and vice versa. Eva just had it's own unique version, though I doubt it could really happen like that.

AuraTwilight’s correct. Aside from the fact that Instrumentality isn’t oneness with all of existence & eternity, there’s also the notion that striving for such oneness is just as important as attaining it, as that ‘journey’ basically prepares one for such state of existence. Using technological mumbo jumbo to leap right into an enormous goo-mind isn’t only arriving at a conclusion that isn’t even Hindu/Buddhist to begin with, but even if it were, the methods employed subvert the very reasons for attempting to reach such an 'end' in the first place.

[konfunoodle]

well, i can't admit that i am wrong, but my opinion seems to be lost in translation. I have to admit that I am not sufficient in projecting my thoughts on forums for I am not that great at projecting my thoughts on the web. But believe me that I am trying to understand what you are saying.
Eva's instrumentality for me has very little to do with Eatern religion/philosophy/beliefs, but I tend to exaggerate the director's meaning in things(it's a flaw of mine) to take the side of the smaller percentage. I'm very educated in various religions and other philosophies, but I tend to go over board when I can not talk to some one face to face to keep me in line of my thinking.I know that I am not correct and am open for corrections.
I hope this made my previous statements more clear, cuz I find everyone here very knowledgeable and accepting.

[TehDonutKing]

...I'm going to sidestep a religious argument and just say that you are grossly misinterpreting the Nirvana concepts of Hindu and Buddhism, and that SEELE equating their goals to the concept is the same as Christian fundamentalists wiping out Muslims in the Crusades to "spread the faith."

I wasn't refering to Nirvahna. After the cycle of reincarnations stops, the Soul rejoins the Bramin.

If I spelled anything wrong, forgive me.

[AuraTwilight]

In the context you were using them, the concepts are literally identical.

Okay, just stop. You're in no business to be trying to make Buddhism/Hinduism metaphors.

[gwern]

These guys are planning something similar, and are dead serious about it. There is a lot of techno-millenialist feeling out there in the real world.

FWIW, I've been reading SIAI material (and participating in discussions) for most of the last decade. The Singularity as most of them/us envision it would not be a single giant collective borganism. A 'good' Singularity would probably leave individuality intact.

Yudkowsky has a (obsolete) proposal for what exactly a FAI would do; http://singinst.org/upload/CEV.html

Unless you think people really do have a deathwish and want to merge, a HIP is a pretty unlikely outcome of a CEV Singularity.

(Of course, a 'bad' Singularity means that everyone will be eaten and turned into computronium. But then, our consciousnesses won't exist in any sense, as they aren't useful, so that's not a HIP either.)

[evill33t]

Actually there are severall christian groups that try to start the apocalypse.
http://www.letusreason.org/curren23.htm
Those guys are trying to acquire Jesus Christ DNA to clone him which would start the second coming. Other groups try to trigger the "Apocalypse of John" . And thats just the christian groups, i am pretty sure some other religious fanatics work on their own Apokalypse.