Questions about some frames from the EoE Movie

[diwo]

Hey everyone!

Before I'm gonna read the important topics about EoE and episode 25 & 26 I'm gonna post/upload some frames from The End of Evangelion Movie. I would love to read what you people think about it, and what you exactly see on those pictures


1. Who is this? This scene is where kid Shinji is playing in the sandpit. First it looked like Rei and I still think so

SPOILER: Show

2. What is this for a symbol?

SPOILER: Show

3. Wasn't Rei with Kaworu in front of EVA 01? Why is she appearing bigger again?

SPOILER: Show

4. What does those wings mean?

SPOILER: Show

5. Isn't the NERV headquarters in there?

SPOILER: Show

6. What are those things opening in her hand?

SPOILER: Show

7. Why is Rei appearing in front of everyone? And even the deaths, does this mean that every human that ever lived will get in the instrumentality?

SPOILER: Show

8. What are they doing? And why do they make such a expression?

SPOILER: Show

9. What is happening here?

SPOILER: Show

10. Are all these red points the soul of the humans?

SPOILER: Show

11. What is happening here?

SPOILER: Show

12. Are those white things Rei? And is this inside of the black moon?

SPOILER: Show

13. Is this where they share all their thoughts and memorys? (this is the moment where a lot of pictures are showed)

SPOILER: Show

14. Did Shinji have sex with Rei, Misato and Asuka at the same time in the Instrumentality?

SPOILER: Show

15. Why is this happening? And direct on her neck, why?

SPOILER: Show

16. From where does come all this blood? Is it hers or from the humans?

SPOILER: Show

17. Where are they? Is this deep in the ocean or inside of their head?

SPOILER: Show

18. And why is Misatos necklace showed so many times?

SPOILER: Show

19. Kaworu appears too. Why is he not naked? Why can they both appear in front of Shinji?

SPOILER: Show

20. What is this? These wings, who owns them?

SPOILER: Show

21. From where is this blood? Is this Rei's or from the humans?

SPOILER: Show

22. Why is her body tearing apart? Is it because her AT Field vanished?

SPOILER: Show

23. Here are the wings again. But what did the Longinus Lance do?

SPOILER: Show

24. Yes, this, but what is the meaning of this moment? All the other lance exploded into something

SPOILER: Show

25. What do you think about this?

SPOILER: Show

26. What does this water drop mean? It appeared three times, if I counted it right

SPOILER: Show

27. What do you think of this?

SPOILER: Show

28. What's with those hairs that EVA 01 has? What's this?

SPOILER: Show

29. What did happen to Rei and Kaworu? Are they still alive?

SPOILER: Show

Sorry all these questions. I recently (just today) rewatched episode 25, 26 and the End of Evangelion Movie again. I rewatchted episode 25 and 26 around 19 times by now and The End of Evangelion 6 times. Today I thought, while rewatching the movie I'm gonna make some screenshot that I upload and ask in the forum what they think of these things that happened in the pictures.
I would be really happy if you would answer me! And forgive me please my english, it's not my native language.

Thanks for reading!

[Dima]

I advise you to number each question (1, 2, 3, 4) so it can be addressed more easily because otherwise every post will have 20+ quotes.

[zlink64]

Yeah last two question I have about eva that I'm still not satisfied about yet after all these years are what Misatoes cross is suppose to symbolize and what hands are suppose to symbolize.

I think maybe the cross is suppose to symbolize Misato's beliefs. Like the advice she is always trying to give Shinji. Or It symbolizes that Shinji remembers about the elevator scene, so like Shinji in instrumentality remember/thinks about the themes/advice/lessons in their last conversation. Basically to Shinji I think the cross = Misato's ideas/life philosophy/opinions/etc

Reichu wrote in another thread that it was like narrative device to show similarity between her and her father which I though was interesting and matched the overall show very well. And this at least explains the purpose of the cross within the elevator scene itself.

"Misato, not unlike Ritsuko, ended up "repeating the sins of the parent" despite concerned efforts not to. Against severe adversity, she discovered how poorly suited to parenthood she was, and escaped from her emotional obligations into work -- much as her father did. EoE even punctuates this transformation by having Misato's final moments precisely echo Dr. Katsuragi's."-Reichu

Connecting this quote to ur question: Misato gave the cross to Shinji the way her dad gave it to her. Poetic irony.


Also since you have so many questions it might be worth your time looking through the site's wiki. It's gotta a lot info. And like Dima said re edit your post and add numbers.

[Mr. Tines]

Mopping up the easy ones

> 1. Who is this? This scene is where kid Shinji is playing in the sandpit. First it looked like Rei and I still think so
The kids are Rei and Asuka, and the mother Misato.

> 3. Wasn't Rei with Kaworu in front of EVA 01? Why is she appearing bigger again?
Giant Naked Rei is actually some Alchymical Wedding of Adam and Lilith. Having gone past the need to keep Shinji quiet (since he's Tang'd now), the Shekinah reintegrates

> 4. What does those wings mean?
Ascension to divinity

> 5. Isn't the NERV headquarters in there?
Yes

> 6. What are those things opening in her hand?
Vulvae

> 7. Why is Rei appearing in front of everyone? And even the deaths, does this mean that every human that ever lived will get in the instrumentality?
She's going around collecting souls. The keywords for a forum search are "psychopomp" and "transition guide".

> 8. What are they doing? And why do they make such a expression?
Some hybrid of masturbation and seppuku

> 9. What is happening here?
The effects of Third Impact are spreading around the globe

> 10. Are all these red points the soul of the humans?
Yes. Everyone gets a hand-job from Giant Naked Rei, as their souls are sucked back into the Chamber of Guf.

> 11. What is happening here?
The Tree of Life is emerging from the forehead of the Shekinah

> 12. Are those white things Rei? And is this inside of the black moon?
Yes to both.

> 15. Why is this happening? And direct on her neck, why?
Shinji has requested that the whole operation be shut down, and he has the clout with the SysOp to have it happen

> 16. From where does come all this blood? Is it hers or from the humans?
At this point it's hard to tell if it's GNR's blood or a river of souls.

> 17. Where are they? Is this deep in the ocean or inside of their head?
In the sea of LCL -- probably as much metaphorical as a physical location

> 19. Kaworu appears too. Why is he not naked? Why can they both appear in front of Shinji?
Because he's a guy. Or it would give away that she's actually a flat chested girl. Take your pick.
Note in light of earlier questions, that we never see Kaworu's palms.
Both Adam and Lilith are together in the Shekinah.

> 20. What is this? These wings, who owns them?
EVA-01/Yui Ikari

> 21. From where is this blood? Is this Rei s or from the humans?
As above, GNR blood or souls

> 22. Why is her body tearing apart? Is it because her AT Field vanished?
Because Shinji asked the system to crash

> 23. Here are the wings again. But what did the Longinus Lance do?
It ceased to be the Tree of Life, and returns to lance-like state

> 24. Yes, this, but what is the meaning of this moment? All the other lance exploded into something
Everything EVA-tech is being destroyed as part of the collapse (part of Yui's grand design).

> 25. What do you think about this?
Lilith/Rei bidding farewell and bon voyage to the (temporarily) petrified Yui Ikari.

> 28. Whats with those hairs that EVA 01 has? Whats this?
The keyphrase of this is "megami shourai"

> 29. What did happen to Rei and Kaworu? Are they still alive?
They have ascended. The phrase for this one is "quantum Rei".

[Dima]

> Who is this? This scene is where kid Shinji is playing in the sandpit. First it looked like Rei and I still think so
The kids are Rei and Asuka, and the mother Misato.

I think he was asking who is the kid in the picture he quoted. It's Shinji.

[Reichu]

Yeah last two question I have about eva that I'm still not satisfied about yet after all these years are what Misatoes cross is suppose to symbolize and what hands are suppose to symbolize.

In general, I think the cross (originally Dr. Katsuragi's, passed to Misato, passed to Shinji) is meant to represent burden and sacrifice. It's a Greek cross (at least, it's supposed to be; expect continuity errors) and not a Roman-style crucifix, but I'm not sure Anno cared about this kind of minutiae. The sacrifice part is straightforward enough, with Dr. Katsuragi and Misato both mortally wounded getting someone else to safety. (At least, this is the most poetic way to read Dr. K's wounds.) The burden aspect is a little less straightforward, but, if you think about it... Misato carries the weight of her father's death with her into adulthood and joins the organization he had worked and died for, Gehirn, in search of some way, any way, to exorcise herself of his ghost. She must resolve not only her mixed feelings for the man, but the mystery of just what happened in Antarctica. It seems that by EoE she has more or less succeeded in doing this, but one final thing remains, to stop Third Impact and end the cycle for good. This burden, along with that of her own death, is passed onto Shinji.

I think maybe the cross is suppose to symbolize Misato's beliefs.

This is another possibility, though perhaps less overt in NGE than in ENT -- at least if I'm remembering correctly and she grabs the cross when she says she believes in the pilot of Eva-01.

I'll, uh, dig into the OP once the questions are numbered.

[Dima]

^Didn't they said that they used the cross symbol only because it looked cool? I think it also applies to Misato's cross and not only when an angel dies.

Tsurumaki said

"There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us. Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians. There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice."

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Cross

[zlink64]

@ Dima well we aren't talking about religious symbolism specifically. More like symbolism within the show itself. So the cross could've been anything...it just happens to be a cross that Misato has. Whether this very specific cross was used by Anno because it looks cool or because it meshes well with sacrifice themes doesn't really matter since the symbolism pertains directly to the show itself and not outside stuff.

@Reichu. That makes a lot of sense. I was thinking when he nails the cross it was symbolic of him growing up and not needing to rely on Misato because he's learned from her and of saying good bye. But the way you describe works too. Like the burdens finished so he leaves it behind.

[Reichu]

Dima: Yeah, what zlink64 said.

zlink64: The Katsuragi cross and how it's used throughout the show is probably worth a look at, all on its own. There's some interesting and seldom discussed stuff going on there...

Okay, onto the numbers. Mr. Tines may have addressed some already, but alternate responses are fine too.

2. It's a variation upon the trinity symbol. The particular significance, if any, of the two circles, and why the Evas are in this configuration at this exact moment... beats me.

3. At this point, Lilith has expanded her own Anti A.T. Field and emerged from it, like an insect from a cocoon, with vastly expanded proportions. (Earlier, Eva-01 could be cupped within her palms; now, the Black Moon itself is but a bouncy ball to Lilith.)

4. Twelve wings are twice the number of wings that seraphim (a powerful choir of angels; depending on who you ask, THE most powerful) possess. The angel Sammael (more commonly known as Satan or the Devil) was said to possess twelve, I guess as proof of how awesome he was. Twelve wings appear in the show's opening twice, first with the woodcut-looking angelic being, and later on sprouted by Eva-01. It's hard for me to say exactly where the show is going with this, but the JSSDF guy calls Eva-01 the Devil when she sprouts wings, and Lilith is named for the queen of demons, so maybe that's something. Within the show itself, energy wings seem to be a representation of "power level" -- the more wings, the greater the power. For example, Eva-01 starts with two, grows two more after casting off the shoulder bindings, and adds another eight at the end.

6. They're called the Gates of Guf, and they lead to the Chamber of Guf. It's not precisely clear where the Chamber is. We see Lilith channel souls into both her palms and the top of the Black Moon. Assuming they all end up in the same place (the Chamber of Guf), the chamber may exist on an extradimensional level. This has made me wonder for the longest time: is there any significance to some souls going into the Gates, while some go into the Moon?

7. These manifestations of Rei are collecting people's souls and bringing them back to "Rei Prime" (Lilith). You can see them swimming around inside Lilith later, three steams all heading toward a red sphere in the distance. Maybe the red sphere represents Lilith's soul, and all the little Reis are offshoots that are about to glom back together?

8. They're committing suicide: whether to free the souls within their cores, bring the Spears in contact with their S2 engines, or both. This act is causing them to all orgasm. The sequence makes me think of the "Ecstasy of St. Teresa", or more specifically the original account inspiring the sculpture. It basically amounts to a woman being speared in the soul by an angel and having one hell of an orgasm.

This may take a while. More later.

[Reichu]

9+10. Lots going on here. The effects of Lilith's Anti A.T. Field are spreading across the surface of the Earth. In its wake, the physical bodies of all living things are reduced to LCL and the souls within are released. The green crosses are launching the souls of humanity up high, to be caught in the "current" pulling everyone toward Lilith and the Black Moon. I'm not sure why the crosses just sit there afterward (they don't go away until Instrumentality is called off at the end of the film). Another interesting question is why the Earth turns red. Supposedly this is from the LCL, but hasn't LCL been orange up until now? Best I can come up with is that LCL becomes red when it's "saturated' with souls -- in this case, the souls of all the lifeforms that aren't human and hence don't get to be part of the Human Instrumentality Project.

12. This is inside of Lilith, which seems to go to the same place as the inside of the Black Moon -- the Chamber of Guf. (See my answer to 6.) As for the Reis, see my answer to 7.

14. Everyone (who isn't a god) no longer has a body at this point, so sexual intercourse is impossible. Sex is just being used as a metaphor, since it's the closest two people can get in the physical world, and Instrumentality is the closest two (or three billion) people can get in the spiritual world.

15. Unclear. This happens right after the live action sequence -- before Shinji and Rei have their conversation about Instrumentality's result. It's possible that Lilith's body is an inevitable casualty of the process, whether successful or failed. Assuming linear cause and effect are in play here, she might have begun her "death sequence" in anticipation of releasing the complemented form of humanity. (According to scenarios shown in the video game Neon Genesis Evangelion 2, Eva-01 would have housed this being. If Eva-01 were being primed for this purpose, this might also explain what that Tree of Life business was all about.)

17. Rei describes it as the "sea of LCL" -- clearly not a physical sea, so what the heck is it? I made a series of posts starting here exploring the question. Worth checking out -- once I fix those broken image links, anyway. If people express interest, I'll probably do it faster.

19. Kaworu is clothed for symbolic reasons. He asks, "Is it okay for A.T. Fields to hurt you and others once more?" ATFs and clothing both act as barriers: the former, to separate vulnerable souls; the latter, to separate vulnerable bodies of naked flesh.

20. Eva-01, sprouting twelve wings of light. This might represent a "passing of the torch" from the dying Lilith to her Evangelion progeny.

21. It's more of that mysterious red LCL. I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from this. Does the Black Moon have hollows and passages going all the way down, and Lilith has been bleeding in there for so long that she flooded everything below Terminal Dogma? Or is it just a cool-looking visual that we're not supposed to think about too much?

22. See my answer to 15. What's happening here also recalls the fate of the clones in episode 23 when Ritsuko triggers "destrudo release". Destrudo is the self-destructive impulse, so, by "releasing" it, Ritsuko basically let them destroy themselves. Lilith might be destroying herself here, as well. Rei has wanted the absolute freedom of death for quite some time, hasn't she?

23+24. The Spear of Longinus, wielded by Eva-01, causes the replica Spears to burst into LCL and makes the corpses of the MP Evas "petrify".

25. Rei/Lilith bidding farewell to Yui/Eva. Also, perhaps, acting as a medium of communication between Yui in the Eva and Shinji in the ejected entry plug. As for why Eva-01 is also "petrified" here, I have no idea; she isn't when we see her later on, so what's the point?

26. Water drops are a recurring visual motif, starting with the TV series. Most sense I've seen anyone make of them is that they mark transitions between "outer world" (physical reality) and "inner world" (spiritual/psychological reality). This interpretation doesn't take all the variations and such into account, but it's a place to start.

27. Head of Lilith's corpse cleaving in half, echoing Eva-00's fate at the arms of Zeruel.

28. Eva-01 during her journey into the great cosmos with the transformed Spear of Longinus. Most of the armor is purple again. The helmet is missing and the Eva appears to have developed a head of bluish hair. Hard to tell if this is actual hair or "flaming hair" (a la Lordgenome). Possibly signifies that Eva-01 has undergone a greater physical transformation that we're not allowed to see, but who really knows. (When NGE2 depicts a long-haired Eva-01 in silhouette in one of its endings, the hair appears to be physical; nothing suggests that the Eva has physically changed in any other appreciable way.)

29. Unclear. The Rei that appears here may just be operating on the same sort of logic as all the other Reis throughout the film (not to mention the one in episode 1) that don't seem to care one wit about normal space-time logistics. If the all-seeing Rei can appear in the past, why not the future?

[NemZ]

13: that seems to be the intention. It's a big mash-up of scenes in which the characters within "Pre 3rd Impact Instrumentality" interact.

[diwo]

Thank you all so much for giving me such helpful answers! It helped me really a lot. I love this forum already and I love Evangelion even more!
@Mr.Tines thanks for telling me the key phrases! I am not really good at finding the right word for the search function so that the right threads show up

@Reichu thanks for the thread! The Thread title already sound interesting! Gonna start reading from the first post soon

Another questions would be

30. What is the meaning of the sandpit scene where Shinji and the two other kids are playing and then Shinji destroying the tetrahedron he build? And Shinji being on top of that thing (the picture on the first question) and these headlights as well as the swing

SPOILER: Show

31. The argue of Shinji and Asuka, and the several scenes before them (Shinji, Asuka saying mama; Misato having sex and being watched by Shinji; the Kaji scene after Asuka ask herself if she is gonna do the same like Misato when she grows up and the train scene, the train scene apppears in the anime too). What do they all mean? Especially these scenes I just listed (in the previous sentence)

SPOILER: Show

Did the Instrumentality already started? Or does this just happen in Shinjis mind as a side effect?

32. Why does Shinji have this traumatized look after the Instrumentality? (the beach scene)

SPOILER: Show

And Misatos cross being nailed on a tree. Did Shinji nailed it on the tree? How and when? And does the nailed cross mean that Shinji growed up like zlink64 said?

Anyways for the final scene Mr.Tines posted me some threads about it in another topic

SPOILER: Show

After more than a decade, that gets to be a long list -- for example, some related threads just for the final scene of EoE

thread/2270/Passage-of-Time-EoE-Final-Scene/
thread/13181/End-of-Evangelion-ending/
thread/8283/EoE-last-scene/
thread/3858/Why-did-Asuka-reincarnate-on-that-beach/
thread/3323/Asuka-on-the-beach-tangent-split/
thread/8496/Finished-watching-TV-Series-and-The-End-of-EvaQUESTIONS/
thread/7776/Question-About-Asuka-at-the-End-of-EoE/
thread/1457/The-Ending-of-the-End-of-Evangelion/
thread/1558/AT-the-end-of-EoE/
thread/459/Shinji-Asuka-and-Life-after-End-of-Evangelion-and-quot/

You might try just paging through the Discussion forum and checking interesting sounding threads; or there's the wiki.

Just gonna read them in some time and thanks again Mr.Tines!


I really hope that they are gonna release the NGE Blu Rays (with everything) dubbed in my country. I would love to see EoE in 1080p in my language and not in 360p (like these pics).
My favourite parts in NGE are episode 25 & 26 and the second half of EoE. I just love it, I just can't get enough of it. I rewatched it so many times and still it's not boring!

And by the way, where can I find the full version of the live action scene in EoE?

EDIT:

@Reichu to you answer on the 15. questions; doesn't it look like more he deceided to reject instrumentality after the talk in the live action scene? Like something Mr.Tines said in his answer (even though I don't know what he means by "clout" or "SysOp"

[Dima]

30. I think, this will be helpful

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Theory_and_Analysis:Sandbox_Sequence

32. Well, Shinji saw many things during Instrumentality. I don't know what other look he should have after that, plus he must have been alone on the planet for some time, since Misato's cross shows signs of deterioration. Check this thread for more

http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/2270/Passage-of-Time-EoE-Final-Scene/

[zlink64]

32) I'm pretty sure there is no generally accepted answer to that specific question other than like a lot crazy shit has happened, which is actually a pretty good explanation lol. I did write like a thereoy/analysis thing where I tried answering that very specific question. I'm honestly not sure if I'm right or not, I go back and forth, but I find having something reassembly an explanation is better than having no explanation so it satisfied me. But yeah it's kinda one of those things we just don't get much info on so you are kind just stuck trying to figure it out the best you can. My opinion on the subject: thread/17500/EoE-Final-scene-explained-and-connected-to-EoTV-GWF-Hegel/

Also the cross symbolism thing , it's another one of the things we don't have an answer to that is generally excepted by the whole community. So your guess is as good as mine lol. Like I actually tried figuring it out once. I rewatched the show specifically just to figure out the possible symbolism of it but it's hard you know, like I didn't even notice the stuff Reichu said at all. Also it's just symbolism. I mean at certain point I think it's okay for you to have your own opinion on it since it happens at the very end. Like I think you get to decide what the "very end" means to you(with in reason that is, no crazy/dumb theories) and that includes the cross being nailed/left behind. At least that's my view on it.

[Mr. Tines]

> 31. The argue of Shinji and Asuka, and the several scenes before them
This section gets called pre-Third Impact Instrumentality (P3II); it's the closest we get to the vision of instrumentality in the original ending, with all the participants in unfiltered communication. We know Misato has to be in there because that's the only way that Asuka and Shinji would know about that.

> Or does this just happen in Shinjis mind as a side effect?
It's all in Shinji's mind -- just that a lot of other people are sharing space there just at the moment.

> 32 ... And Misatos cross being nailed on a tree.
Those are utility poles, charred by some of the violent events, and set up by Shinji as grave markers, while he was there all alone. There are no bodies there to mark, just as there was none in his mother's grave (episode 17).

> and not in 360p (like these pics).And not in 4:3 aspect ratio like those pics, too, I would hope.

> And by the way, where can I find the full version of the live action scene in EoE?
The unused live-action scene is on YouTube -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBs3VsNfdY

> even though I don't know what he means by "clout" or "SysOp"
In this idiom, "clout" is the ability to influence someone (or some organization) to do something. And "SysOp" is the systems operator, a slightly old-fashioned term for the administrator of a big centralised computer.

Now, this is where I start to put my own unique spin on things, based on my reading of NGE as another artifact of mid '90s science fiction and the somewhat millenarian/apocalyptic themes doing the rounds at the time -- so in this context, it refers to the SysOp scenario for Singularity, in which a transhuman level artificial intelligence (the SysOp) takes over. Indeed the scenario we see in the outcome of Instrumentality looks not that far from being a mass-upload Singularity with the Lilith/Adam construct as SysOp handling the chores of keeping the whole substrate running. Big conceptual infodump here.

[diwo]

Thanks for the answer Dima, zlink64 and Mr.Tines! Gonna read now all the threads

[Reichu]

diwo: Let me fix the links on that "Instrumentality 101" thread before you dig into it. I'll PM you when it's done. Never mind, done. Took less time than I thought.

@Reichu to you answer on the 15. questions; doesn't it look like more he deceided to reject instrumentality after the talk in the live action scene? Like something Mr.Tines said in his answer

Consider the sequence of events in the film:

- Live action sequence
- Lilith's neck rips open and starts bleeding
- Shinji and Rei are seen merged together; Rei tells Shinji about what's happened, and Shinji decides that he doesn't like it

Lilith's body starts to undergo destruction before Shinji is enlightened about what's happening and before he makes a decision to end the process. Therefore, unless this sequence is not meant to represent linear cause and effect (and if that's so, how on earth would we know?), Lilith's body starts to degrade for some reason NOT having to do with Instrumentality ending.

[Arcadia's legacy]

If that's the case, why exactly would she will herself to fall apart?

[Reichu]

If that's the case, why exactly would she will herself to fall apart?

I offered some possibilities upstream. Could copy and paste, but it's not a huge thread; I'm sure you can find them.

[diwo]

Rewatching EoE Movie again right now, and I got some questions about episode 25' - Love is destructive

First one is about this:



Is this above the base or in the base? I mean, in the city itself or down in the GeoFront? If its in the GeoFront - how did they come down so fast?


Second questions is about this:



Wasn't the GeoFront multilayered? How comes that a bomb blows a big hole in the wall and destroys everhing and some angel failed miserably with getting in the GeoFront? And why don't we see this big hole later in episode 26 when Lilith blows up half of the planet to get the GeoFront, the black moon free?