Keel Lorenz and Third Impact

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

Moderator: Board Staff

Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
Ultrahuntr
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Gender: Male

Keel Lorenz and Third Impact

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ultrahuntr » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:28 am

Alright, so I'm interested in discussing this a little bit more than the wiki cover it.

Image

The wiki says "At some point between Second Impact and 2015, most of Keel's body, below the neck, was replaced with cybernetic implants. Although he uses a visor to see, Keel still possesses eyes (as indicated by production drawings). When the organic components of his body became LCL, the remaining mechanical components were left behind, and appear to include most of his spinal column."

1) Where's the source for when this occurred (just curious). I know 15 years is a huge time frame, but I'm wondering if there's more information to be found about this.

2) Are the other members of Seele also part machine? This point has the potential to completely change my view of Seele as a whole.

3)What are your opinions on this?

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:34 am

Exactly when he became a cyborg is entirely speculation, but he notably doesn't have the visor in the photos of him immediately after 2I, so it's feasible that he might be entirely human at that point. We know that he's a cyborg later on because, in EoE, there's all sorts of weird shit left over after his organic parts melt.

No information is provided on the other Seele members. There's nothing suggesting it nor denying it. If you want to make them part-machine in a fanfic, go right ahead.

Monk Ed
Sunshine Administrator
Sunshine Administrator
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 8601
Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Location: Chicagoland area
Gender: Male

Re: Keel Lorenz and Third Impact

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Monk Ed » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:35 am

View Original PostUltrahuntr wrote:1) Where's the source for when this occurred (just curious). I know 15 years is a huge time frame, but I'm wondering if there's more information to be found about this.

Keel's younger form is shown in a newspaper article in episode 21. That's how it's known that he wasn't always that way.
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Posts: 5660
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: Somewhere

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:35 am

I imagine someone found out about the plan for third impact and tried to assassinate him.

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 7872
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:42 am

Or maybe he was just getting very old and/or got very sick (like cancer) and wouldn't had survived until 3I without cybernetic part replacing his failing organs, and he really wanted to be present for Instrumentality. (especially if their true plan follows the one depicted in the NGE2 videogame, with SEELE sacrificing all of mankind to elevate themselves into eternal beings.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Posts: 5660
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: Somewhere

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:46 am

He was missing the lower half of his body!

Ultrahuntr
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ultrahuntr » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:29 am

It's possible though that in order to make room for the machinery that would keep him alive he had to give up his legs/hips. This makes sense since after he's tanged you hear a motor sputtering. Maybe his life support system was actually quite large.

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:40 pm

Not sure what the problem there was exactly, but I fixed your image.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Ultrahuntr
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ultrahuntr » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:00 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Not sure what the problem there was exactly, but I fixed your image.


Thanks. I was confused myself, I didn't know why it messed up. How did you fix it? (Sorry for derailing my own thread for a second.)

________________________________

Image

Also, I understand it's Tier 4 Canon, but in this frame of the manga we see him (or a figure we can assume to be him) walking with some of the other members of Seele.

Is it possible that he replaced his legs with robotic ones as well? Or that maybe all of the mechanical parts were actually inside of him? And he wasn't just a torso hooked up to a machine?
Last edited by Ultrahuntr on Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:27 pm

Just asked for a new image link. Not sure what was wrong with the first one, but oh well.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Ultrahuntr
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ultrahuntr » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:30 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Just asked for a new image link. Not sure what was wrong with the first one, but oh well.


It happened again. This makes me sad. D:

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:40 pm

are you clicking on the 'sharing options' button or just grabbing a link from the address bar? They aren't the same.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Ultrahuntr
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ultrahuntr » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:48 pm

I was clicking the wrong share link. I know which one I need now. Glad I got that figured out haha. Thanks for pointing that out.

SolidEye
Embryo
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 6
Joined: Oct 20, 2014
Location: Germany
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SolidEye » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:06 pm

Seele always has been ambiguous about their ambitions, origin and especially their Members.

Basically it is up to speculation, on exactly how Keel was brought into this condition.
It may be the result of something like a contact experiment with the mass production evas, which resulted into the decay of half his body, or the organic parts might be related to the magi system.

Also Gendo wears a similar visor in NTE, which might hint that he is in a quite akin situation.

Ultrahuntr
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 58
Joined: Sep 29, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ultrahuntr » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:30 pm

Possibly. I just wish there was a little more information on them.

El Squibbonator
Nerv Employee
Nerv Employee
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1273
Joined: Apr 01, 2014
Location: The state of Denial

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby El Squibbonator » Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:59 pm

Do we ever even see his full body in the show? I don't remember seeing him anywhere other than at a table with the SEELE monoliths.
Life can seem a challenge. Life can seem impossible. It's never easy when so much is on the line.


Do you like Eva? Do you like Pokemon? Then check out Neon Genesis Evangelemon-- You Can (Not) Catch 'Em All thread/16052/Neon-Genesis-Evangelemon/

Lavinius
Pilot
Pilot
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 2175
Joined: Apr 13, 2012

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lavinius » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:24 pm

This makes that weird "Ewiger Jude" nonsense the wiki mentions all the stranger, since obviously someone cursed to live to the end of the world would have no purpose or desire for mechanical life extension. Unless Jesus went around zapping people into being cyborgs. Which, given Eva's penchant for odd usages of religious elements, might not seem implausible to someone with the notion that Eva has some truly esoteric meaning or such. But whence came that story anyway? What was the first record of it?

I do have the headcanon that Kiel keeps the Dead Sea Scrolls in hollow compartments in his spine, if that's at all of interest to anyone.

Nuclear Lunchbox
Agent Ahegao
Agent Ahegao
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 10623
Joined: Dec 13, 2012
Location: Nippon
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:30 pm

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:Do we ever even see his full body in the show? I don't remember seeing him anywhere other than at a table with the SEELE monoliths.

I believe there's a photo of a younger him in one of those newspaper articles that we see about the aftermath of either second impact or the failed Eva-01 activation experiment, but even then we don't see his FULL body. So I suppose the answer to your question is no.


Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests