Quantum Magic and Unit 01

[SawItAtAge10]

So we all know that Unit 01 leaves at the very end of EoE to go drifting off into the cosmos to be "eternal proof that mankind ever existed" and possibly become a new kind of mother to a race of beings on another world.

Here's a what if scenario that could tie her cosmic journey into Rei/Lilith's alleged quantum magic as well as the aspects of recurrence in the series.

What if the being we have come to know as Lilith (the white giant that was cut in half to create Unit 01 and hangs on the big red cross wearing a purple mask down in Central Dogma for most of the show) is in fact Unit 01/Yui herself?

This might seem preposterous, but what if when Yui went off on her little journey, she fell into a wormhole that sent back in time, and accelerated and projected towards Earth at a precise moment when Adam had dominance, thus causing first impact?

What if that impact, her lance (the one she took with her, that was initially Adam's) got projected into Adam destroying his in the process OR was destroyed in the collision, thus causing the requirement of his much later on?

This could account for the purple mask worn by Lilith as a kind of clue: it could be what's left (after billions of years) of Unit 01's armor. The fact that it has the seal of SEELE on it is indicator of its connections to Yui herself, who was affiliated with them prior to meeting Gendo.

If this is true, than Lilith/Rei III "talking to herself" just prior to the initiation of 3rd Impact becomes even more reflective of the connections between them. It's like a reflection of a reflection of a reflection.....(Insert infinite regression here)

If this scenario is the case, then it becomes very ironic for Yui's arc. She's habitually damned to repeat the cycle. She's sees her younger self with her ambition of becoming one with a part of Lilith (in the form of Unit 01) to ascend to Goddess-hood. However, as Lilith hanging on the cross, she's crucified as punishment for trying to achieve such ambitions while simultaneously abandoning her son (both on earth and ultimately after her departure) to achieve her goals. She knows everything that's going to happen and that her goal is a failure, but she's trapped in a fixed loop while humanity is able to move forward post 3rd impact, to do what ever it does after the beach scene in EoE.

The "young Yui" that departs Earth in EoE has no idea of the failure, thus Yui as Lilith has no choice but to watch herself make that mistake forever and ever. In that sense, she's probably very happy to die and disintegrate when her neck splits open in EoE. It's the only form of relief she gets until the process is repeated again with her "arrival" at 1st Impact.

Granted, all of this kind of diminishes Rei's (and her multiple incarnations) purpose or characterization within the story of the series and movie. However, it further emphasizes her "replaceable" or disposable nature as well as enhancing her "motherly" nature as well.

In that sense, Yui IS Unit 01 who continually reincarnates as Rei and Lilith for all eternity. (Assuming this hypothesis has any validity)

Now in regards to this scenario, maybe "Rei" (the being who is made up of Yui's body and Lilith's soul) in becoming herself "through the interaction with others" --- basically becoming a unique being through her experiences/memories during the time she was alive on Earth (predominantly as Rei II) is able to transcend this fixed loop? This would "open a metaphysical can of worms" and maybe even allow the possibility of her alleged powers and early "ghost forms" (I'm looking at YOU Episode 1!)

I realize that this theory begs the question "If this is valid, then where the hell did the body that we identify as "Lilith" originally come from in the first place?"

Well, Evangelion being what it is, is very postmodern in its themes and concepts. To that end, one of the main tenets of this mode of thinking is "having no originals", thus the Yui/Unit 01/Lilith (think "Cross of Lorraine") being becomes a thing that perpetuates itself like a snake eating itself. However, because Lilith is the progenitor of the human race and Yui's departure at the end of EoE is basically the outcome of a man made situation, one could view mankind as its own "prime mover" or the "homo faber" of our own existence.

This is viewed in a different way is metaphorical sense in the series whenever Unit 01 activates itself. This concept comes from Psychology Alchemy (which NGE makes extensive use of---Carl Jung)

According to this system the third attribute concerned with "the Real Self" is " capacity for self-activation and assertion". Thus, humanity's use of Lilith/Unit 01 is the "prima materia" or "philosopher's stone" for bringing forth its own existence.

Once the "rebirth" (another core concept that gets a lot of coverages throughout the series/movie) is over in EoE, Unit 01 (unbeknownst to her) just like Rei, is more or less disregarded by being tossed off into space. This of course comes back around again for 1st Impact. Thus, two beings Lilith and Unit 01 who are one in the same, serve two impacts for one goal: the perpetuated existence of humanity.

[NemZ]

...or we could just accept the far simpler and more understandable arrangement most of us already do without the wild unsubstantiated fanwanking and avoid the logical paradoxes altogether.

Seems like an easy choice to me, but YMMV.

[SawItAtAge10]

...or we could just accept the far simpler and more understandable arrangement most of us already do without the wild unsubstantiated fanwanking and avoid the logical paradoxes altogether.

How is this unsubstantial or a logical paradox?

I think I very carefully laid out my argument and evidence for this theory...

[NemZ]

You built the whole thing on a "what if?" that isn't even remotely evidence-based and fully embrace (and even name!) a paradox of infinite regression as part of the theory. I see a lot of interpretation but no evidence.

I'm not trying to shut the thread down or anything, and it certainly was a lot of effort to put this together, but I'm not even slightly convinced. Sorry. There's a symbolic sort of sense to this as just a larger chain of civilizations creating seeds to remake themselves over and over again on different worlds from the same common pool of souls, but the idea that Yui is literally Lilith rather than just symbolically doesn't seem at all feasible as a starting point because 1) it's kind of pointlessly confusing for no real gain and 2) Adam still had to come from somewhere too.

[SawItAtAge10]

I kind of see your point, but I just thought it was interesting in a way that fully validates a "punishment" for Yui's terrible behavior as a parent and an ironic retribution for her hubris in attempting to become a god like being.

As far as infinite regression goes it would be something like this:

Yui = Unit 01
Unit 01 = Lilith
Lilith = Rei
Rei = Yui or Rei = Unit 01

Thus, Rei's "Welcome Home" into Lilith is really Yui welcoming herself back into herself. I thought this theory would fit nicely into the whole "return to origins" thing going in NGE.

Rei's independence through Unit 00 and her self-actualization (awareness of who she is outside of having Yui's form and Lilith's soul) could be the means by which she is able to separate herself from this cycle.

Btw my evidence is as follows:

The above equations I just made.
The fact that Unit 01 goes off into space to become a "mother".
The fact Lilith came from space as a "mother".
Lilith's Purple mask. The fact that Unit 01 is purple.
The fact that Unit 01 is made from Lilith as Rei is made from Yui.
The fact that Lilith's mask is has the SEELE seal, which Yui was known to be affiliated with.

The rest ties into the various "Quantum Rei" theories floating around the forum and the idea of "Eavngelion is a story that repeats"
If my theory held up, it would be the ultimate form of a story repeating itself.

As a side note: Maybe the ghost we see floating in space with Unit 01 near the end of EoE traveled back with her and that is the "independent Rei" that mentioned. If that were true, then it also clears up how/why we see "ghost Rei" before third impact.

Also, I just thought it would be some interesting food for thought. Assuming it was true, what are your thoughts on how it affects the overall interpretation of events within the show?

[NemZ]

That's a decent start to a list of the connections between all these players, both actual and symbolic, but in no way does that constitute proof that because A is like B that we can conclude A IS B. That's the problem.

I mean I don't even personally consider Lilith and the various forms of Rei to all be identically the same person even though they definately do share the same soul and have shared memories. To my view each is still a distinct entity in her own right, and treating them as if interchangeable is exactly what Gendo does wrong in EoE. So to me, even if Yui and Unit 01 were also caught up in this somehow I still wouldn't consider them to be the same person.

[SawItAtAge10]

How are Yui and Unit 01 not the same person? I thought it was made explicitly clear that it was her soul inside since "she chose to remain inside the Eva"?

Of course the various clones are "different" in certain ways, but they are each inherently connected. Also, there is direct evidence that Unit 01 came from/is a direct extensions of Lilith, thus the two are more or less mirror images of each other... I would say that Rei I and Rei III are "more complete" because that fragment of the Lilith soul was broken when Dr. Akagi Senior killed her. Then, it was later retrieved when Unit 0 exploded and Rei II died. In fact, it's the very nature of that seemingly "pointless sacrifice" (in the sense that Rei could easily be resurrected/replaced with a "new" version from the Reiquarium) that seems to indicate Rei III's overall perspective on "being alive/existence in general". It's also reflective of the futility of Unit 01 leaving Earth to create life elsewhere only to (hypothetically) come back to the same planet and be made into a tool for humans, which the center of the irony because she was trying to "ascend" to a greater state of being.

I think Rei's sense of individuation stems from her ability to break away from this loop.

And I didn't say "A is like B" as much as I said A = B.

[NemZ]

...Why is nobody else in this conversation? I feel like I'm picking on you and that isn't at all my intent.

How are Yui and Unit 01 not the same person?

She was Yui, but I believe she came to see herself not as herself within in 01 but AS 01 itself, which is why after instrumentality she still showed up as unit 01 but with crazy hair much like she was seen as a phantom hallucination by Shinji within Liliel. When she stopped being human she stopped being recognizably the person she was before.

Similarly that's why Lilith took the shape of Rei after they rejoined... because she IS Rei now, Lilith is dead and gone.

Unit 01 came from/is a direct extensions of Lilith

Are you an extension of your parents, or are you your own person?

And I didn't say "A is like B" as much as I said A = B.

I'm not in any way disputing these connections, I just don't think they are as strong as you make them out to be.

[ElMariachi]

This might seem preposterous, but what if when Yui went off on her little journey, she fell into a wormhole that sent back in time, and accelerated and projected towards Earth at a precise moment when Adam had dominance, thus causing first impact?

Wormholes doesn't work like that.

[Reichu]

Not sure how any of this accounts for the Black Moon, either.

[Bagheera]

Not sure how any of this accounts for the Black Moon, either.

That was my thought. The Black Moon and Adam (to say nothing of the Angels) kinda put the kibosh on this theory.

[Atropos]

That was my thought. The Black Moon and Adam (to say nothing of the Angels) kinda put the kibosh on this theory.

Don't you mean the White Moon? I thought Lilith's was the Black Moon, while Adam's was the White.

[Bagheera]

Don't you mean the White Moon? I thought Lilith's was the Black Moon, while Adam's was the White.

I was including Adam's stuff with Adam. Sorry for the confusion!

[AuraTwilight]

This is a fun fanfic premise. Now we need to figure out how to timeloop Adam/Kaworu.

Preferrably if we can fit in Gendo being the same soul through shenanigans. Shinji is the Child of Time. The Fool who teeters on the Abyss between Past and Future, forever vagrant.

And this is why you shouldn't masturbate, children.

In all seriousness, I consider this a really entertaining idea even if there's no real support for it. I'm a fan of Chuckman's posts afterall, especially at their most out there. I just feel this idea either goes too far or doesn't go far enough, but as it is it's not very well-established, both because you haven't provided many comparisons beyond symbolic comparisons, and it doesn't address things like the Black Moon, the Angels, or...well, a whole lot.

For reals though I want some crazy fanfic where Shinji spanking his monkey dooms the entire universe.

[Ultrahuntr]

How are Yui and Unit 01 not the same person? I thought it was made explicitly clear that it was her soul inside since "she chose to remain inside the Eva"?

She doesn't have direct control over the Eva at all times, at least not from what we've been shown. I mean yeah, she apparently actively rejects the dummy plug, but every single time Unit-01 went berserk was when Shinji was in some sort of emotional turmoil. There was never a time where she moved of her own accord without Shinji in the plug or very near her. It seems more accurate then to say that she INHABITS the Eva, but isn't the Eva itself. she can sometimes take control, but not permanently. As is she's "taking the wheel" from Shinji in order to help him.

[Reichu]

It seems more accurate then to say that she INHABITS the Eva, but isn't the Eva itself. she can sometimes take control, but not permanently. As is she's "taking the wheel" from Shinji in order to help him.

This is a common opinion, but by no means a universal one.

[Bagheera]

I don't know how that's different from inhabiting a normal human body, anyway; a body's a body, how does it being big enter into things?

[Atropos]

Because our bodies don't have little men piloting them?

The way I see it, Yui is only in control when Shinji (or the dummy plug, in that one instance) isn't. The one exception may be in EoE, when Shinji is in the entry plug but isn't wearing his interface headset.

[Reichu]

The way I see it, Yui is only in control when Shinji (or the dummy plug, in that one instance) isn't. The one exception may be in EoE, when Shinji is in the entry plug but isn't wearing his interface headset.

Ultrahuntr wasn't talking about "control" per se, but whether or not Yui actually IS the Eva. And going by NGE rules of the body/soul relationship, claiming that Yui merely "inhabits" the Eva is kind of like saying that Lilith merely "inhabits" Rei. The fact that Evas are slaves controlled by an implant through the spine, and thus aren't ALLOWED to have a normal relationship with their own damned bodies, seems to throw people off quite a bit.

"Control", by the way, is relative, since Yui's soul is the gatekeeper of Eva-01's (now Yui's own) body. Basically, the body won't do anything unless Yui either has direct access, or grants it to someone or something else by synching.

[Ultrahuntr]

"Control", by the way, is relative, since Yui's soul is the gatekeeper of Eva-01's (now Yui's own) body. Basically, the body won't do anything unless Yui either has direct access, or grants it to someone or something else by synching.

This is the point I was trying to make. And I do understand it's not a universal opinion, but as with a lot of things relating to Eva it boils down to personal opinion based on the research that has been done, and this happens to be mine lol.

If Yui had complete control over the Eva I don't think the dummy system ever would have had to have been used. In that instance the Eva wasn't going berserk because what was happening was what Shinji was allowing to let happen. Ultimately this is what Yui wants, for Shinji to make his own decisions and be happy. He said he would rather die than kill Toji, and Yui never once tried to stop him. The only reason Shinji didn't die is because of the Dummy Plug.