The Production and Abilities of the Replica Spears

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The Production and Abilities of the Replica Spears

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Postby boyfrand » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:26 pm

[Cleaned up and expanded the thread title. - Monk]

anyone give much thought to the production and abilities of the replica spears? do you think their production was unknown to nerv? i'm not really sure when they would have been produced because apparently the LoL was just hanging out in antartica (were they studying it there?), then moved to tokyo-3 to impale lilith, then launched into space, where it remained untiil EoE.

i just rewatched Asuka's battle in EoE, and it appears that the spear successfully pierces her at field, but it clearly doesn't destroy her completely (when Rei threw it into space, did the LoL seek out the angel's core or was Rei really good at javelin throwing?), it just goes into her skull. why not her core?

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Postby K40s » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:28 am

Apparently during the Katsuragi expedition they actually removed the LoL from Adam, sent it to the Dead Sea region and then shipped it back to Antarctica and stabbed it back in Adam for the Contact Experiment, in EoE they talk about pulling out the spear.

I once theorized that the Spear they sent back to Antarctica was a (the first) replica and not the original, which was kept by Seele and later sent to Nerv in Japan.

Since they removing the Spear out of Adam didn't cause her to activate or do nothing whatsoever (the same can be seen with Lilith, the spear only seems to prevent her from regenerating her legs) and took all the trouble of sending it back to Antarctica only to spear Adam again for the CE with the Katsuragi donor, I proposed that they intended it to keep Adam from activating when actually performing the CE itself, since what they got back was a fake Adam did indeed activate and caused 2nd Impact. They probably did the same with Lilith (only this time with the real spear) in order to produce Rei, they dove some of Yui's DNA on Lilith's speared body it reacted and formed a Rei body using Lilith's marshmallow matter and Lilith's soul split itself among both bodies.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:01 am

It's interesting to note that the replica Spears carried by the MP Evas bubble up and produce little legs when Eva-01 stops 3I. They look suspiscously like the small legs growing out of Lilith's waist, and the script identifies the substance they turn into as LCL:

SPOILER: Show
Image


My theory is that they may be replicas of Lilith's original (lost) Spear, somehow made out of LCL, or that Seele somehow found a way to clone Adam's Spear using LCL and possibly biomatter from Lilith.
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Postby boyfrand » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:45 pm

i never noticed that about the replica spears before! however, maybe the spears are reacting that way because they are interacting with the cores of the massive production units?

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:01 pm

View Original Postboyfrand wrote:i just rewatched Asuka's battle in EoE, and it appears that the spear successfully pierces her at field, but it clearly doesn't destroy her completely (when Rei threw it into space, did the LoL seek out the angel's core or was Rei really good at javelin throwing?), it just goes into her skull. why not her core?


The original Lance is sentient (not sapient, sentient) and targeted Arael on its own. Pretty much all Rei had to do there was point it in the right general direction and throw and the Lance would do the rest.

The replica Lance, by contrast, does not appear to be sentient at all, and thus is at the mercy of its wielder when it comes to accuracy.

View Original PostK40s wrote:I once theorized that the Spear they sent back to Antarctica was a (the first) replica and not the original, which was kept by Seele and later sent to Nerv in Japan.


Not sure what you're on about here, as we're told rather pointedly what's going on with the Lance at every turn. Same holds with the rest of your theory; the KE wanted to wake up Adam, we know how Rei was born and the Lance had nothing to do with it, etc.

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:My theory is that they may be replicas of Lilith's original (lost) Spear, somehow made out of LCL, or that Seele somehow found a way to clone Adam's Spear using LCL and possibly biomatter from Lilith.


Yeah, given their LCL constitution it's likely they were cloned from the original.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if the Lance has a soul? That might explain why the replicas weren't sentient, same as the Rei clones weren't people on account of lacking souls. That would make for a nice symmetry between the Eva project and the replica lances.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Postby Malevolo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:40 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:
Now that I think about it, I wonder if the Lance has a soul? That might explain why the replicas weren't sentient, same as the Rei clones weren't people on account of lacking souls. That would make for a nice symmetry between the Eva project and the replica lances.


The only problem would be whom a soul would be put into the lance, because the only replica souls we know are the dummy plugs, and them another problems arises, whom do you put a soul into a replica lance without all the computing necessary to subdue a replica soul (dummy plug)

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:24 pm

View Original PostMalevolo wrote:The only problem would be whom a soul would be put into the lance, because the only replica souls we know are the dummy plugs, and them another problems arises, whom do you put a soul into a replica lance without all the computing necessary to subdue a replica soul (dummy plug)


The point is that the replicas don't have souls, which would explain why they aren't as spiffy as the original Lance. No one would need to put a soul in the original because it already has one (gained when it was created by the FAR).

I'm not even sure how I feel about this idea but at first blush it seems kinda neat.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Lavinius » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:41 pm

Wait, there was some scepticism as to whether the LoL had a soul in the first place?
I hadn't thought the replicas didn't have souls though, if I thought about I would have assumed they had castrated or overridden ones, like the Harpies do.
To be honest, and even though this sounds a bit silly, but since the Lances are alive, and have souls, perhaps they aren't merely the instruments and servants of the Ancestors, but the Ancestors themselves?
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:54 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:Wait, there was some scepticism as to whether the LoL had a soul in the first place?


I've never even seen it suggested before, but perhaps it's old hat and I missed it.

To be honest, and even though this sounds a bit silly, but since the Lances are alive, and have souls, perhaps they aren't merely the instruments and servants of the Ancestors, but the Ancestors themselves?


There are only seven of them total, so that seems unlikely. That said, maybe they went Seele's route and turned whole populations into the Lances, dumping the rest into the Chambers of Guf so the Seeds could do their thing. Who knows? :shrug:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Lavinius » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:08 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I've never even seen it suggested before, but perhaps it's old hat and I missed it.

It just seemed pretty obvious to me... they're alive and intelligent, and clearly organic, not machines, so of course they have souls.
There are only seven of them total, so that seems unlikely. That said, maybe they went Seele's route and turned whole populations into the Lances. Who knows? :shrug:

Well, maybe only seven of them didn't become seeds or souls in the Chamber of Guf. Or maybe only seven of them went with the seeds and there's a whole space city filled with Lances. Who knows?
I thought it was a silly idea, but it actually sort of makes sense. The Ancestors didn't have any combination of Fruits because they were an entirely separate kind of being to begin with.
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Postby Malevolo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 11:16 pm

View Original PostLavinius wrote:It just seemed pretty obvious to me... they're alive and intelligent, and clearly organic, not machines, so of course they have souls.


I concur with Lavinius.

And to penetrate an AT Field like they do, without a powerful energy source (like a positron canon), they need a way to do it. We see them adapting to Asuka AT Field so they can cross it, well if they have a hardwired replica soul (like the souls on the harpys), are organic, they need a AT Field to maintain the shape, and change their shape so can cross one.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:20 am

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:It's interesting to note that the replica Spears carried by the MP Evas bubble up and produce little legs when Eva-01 stops 3I. They look suspiscously like the small legs growing out of Lilith's waist, and the script identifies the substance they turn into as LCL:

SPOILER: Show


My theory is that they may be replicas of Lilith's original (lost) Spear, somehow made out of LCL, or that Seele somehow found a way to clone Adam's Spear using LCL and possibly biomatter from Lilith.


Are those legs, or greebles that makeup the explosion effect?
the prophecy is true

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:06 am

View Original PostMalevolo wrote:I concur with Lavinius.

And to penetrate an AT Field like they do, without a powerful energy source (like a positron canon), they need a way to do it. We see them adapting to Asuka AT Field so they can cross it, well if they have a hardwired replica soul (like the souls on the harpys), are organic, they need a AT Field to maintain the shape, and change their shape so can cross one.


But they don't have AT Fields. That's actually a pretty solid argument for their not having souls.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:14 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Are those legs, or greebles that makeup the explosion effect?


Definitely legs. The Spears don't actually explode until a few frames later. Some of the legs even seem to have half-formed waists, much like those growing from Lilith.
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Postby boyfrand » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:52 pm

Well, since the replica lances don't have AT fields, they most likely don't have souls. So Seele figured out how to create a weapon that pierces an AT field without using another AT field to corrode/erode it. Do you think they had recently created the technology or were they hiding it from Nerv Japan so they couldn't use it against Seele?

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Postby LeoXiao » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:08 am

You guys know what would be really boss?

Is if instead if piloting Evas, they pilot Lance replicas instead. Would probably be much more effective.


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