Why was Shinji strangling Asuka at the end of EoE?

[Chrad]

Yeah. Though like I've said in (probably countless, hehe ) other threads, things CAN get better for them both despite being in a sucky situation now. They have to work on their psychological issues (and trauma >_> ) as well as do some maturing first, though I believe they could do that together. They just shouldn't become a couple (let alone get married or even "worse", have any children!!!) until they've gotten better.

I would think that recovering and becoming closer to each other would be part of the same process. The route of both of their problems is their inability to reach out to others, after all.
Shinji and Asuka literally need each other after the final scene. They are alone together and are going to have to depend on each other to survive and retain sanity. It seems to me that they'd fall into being 'a couple' by circumstance. There's never going to be a Big Romantic Scene when Shinji says, "Asuka, you're the most beautiful girl in the world, will you go out with me?". This is where fanfic gets it wrong.

Also, the fact that she's changed doesn't mean she is not a perfect paragon of empathy and grace. She's taken the first step, but it's a process, not a magical transformation.

Exactly. Asuka is not Kaworu. Just because she's found it within her to show compassion to Shinji in the final scene doesn't mean she has to accept him completely, flaws and all. In my mind it would defeat the point of Eva if she had magically transformed that much.

In others words,this implies that Shinji does not believe in life and in a possibility of hapiness in the new world...a vision that is a lot different form Evangelion on TV(where he overcomes his problems and see it's possible to have a good life in the world)

I think this probably describes his point of view in the final scene pretty well, before Asuka's caress shows him the possibility of happiness.

"Miyamura-san, imagine that there's this guy you know and you get dismembered before his eyes and he's already manic depressive by the way so he goes completely insane and fuses with God and decides to destroy humanity but then realizes that harsh reality is preferable to blithe transhuman lack of individuality and kills God and restores humanity and returns to Earth and tries to choke you and you kind of like him anyway so you hope he stops trying to choke you and recognizes that you're trying to help, but instead he just whinges about it and you're like 'goddammit man, what the fuck', that's how you should read the line."

Amazing.

Not just EoTV, EoE as well. It basically ignores the whole of the final scene between Shinji and his mother. The entire point of the exercise, the reason he rejects instrumentality and returns to the real world, is wound up in the fact that he feels life is fundamentally worth living, and for its own sake at that. He does believe there's the possibility of happiness here, because if he didn't he wouldn't have come back.

It's easy to make that decision in Instrumentality, but it's harder to keep up that mentality when you find yourself in such a bleak situation as Shinji in the final scene. I don't find it particularly hard to believe he'd lose hope when once again confronted with the pain of reality, and I don't think it defeats the point of his decision if he does. The final scene just hammers home that only our relations with others make life worth living.

I think he just didn't want to be part of it. In a way we can liken it to his simply running away from something unpleasant, which is what he always does (that's a pretty depressing viewpoint, though, and probably not entirely fair to him).

But real life is much more unpleasant than the Instrumentality, as characterised by the post Komm Susser Tod scenes. 'Running away' would be accepting Instrumentality.

[Sanada Yukimura]

First of all sir Bagheera u need to be more polite when adressing my ideas or anyone's else.Whatever who u really are....u follow some familiar manners.

I think he just didn't want to be part of it. In a way we can liken it to his simply running away from something unpleasant, which is what he always does (...)

And really, how would he expect the real world to look? He woke up in Tokyo-3 after the JSSDF blew up the place and the whole world's population got tanged and GNR fell over and died. How else could it look after all that?

Shinji knew what was going on and he's not that stupid.It's possible (bleak, but possible) that he was strangling Asuka as an act of mercy, but such an act only makes sense if we assume he thinks she wants it. Saying "oh, the world is disappointing, she couldn't possibly want to live here" is assuming way too much IMO (both on his part and yours). (...)

For example ,ur repplies are weak and contraditory too.If he is just running away from his choice and its consequences in the destiny of human condition then he can't take an atitude like that(acting by mercy to Asuka because of the new "bad" human condition).And more...if we suppose he is just running away,so how Shinji knew what was going on??And according to Existentialism,running away should be a choice of not making a choice,and it means that Instrumentality would simply continues.

And about ur questions(that also seems contraditory to ur hipotesis of Shinji's awareness in reality)that ask how would he expects the world,I think the answers for this just requires a minimum of inteligence and time.Because if u have 2 choices,accepting Instrumentality or denying it,u should think that if u accept then things will be different from now on,and if u deny u just expects things to work how it was before.That's why I've said(and will repeat again) Shinji didn't know all this changes in the world,because if he knew maybe he would reconsider his choice(even though he overcomes his problems,he would see that now the problems was "outside",in the new condition he and humanity will be inserted)

And about stranglin scene I admit that is rly confusing,it's not clear for me about the meanings of this scene,but until now i have 2 view about it:in pessimistic way he yet hasn't overcome his problems(incoherent to EvaTV),in a more optmistic way he 've done that as mercy act because of the new world(coherent to EvaTV in the sense he became aware of reality)and ...it doesn't implies necessarily that Shinji knew she wanted death,he just thought that was the best choice the same way he thought rejecting Instrumentality was the best choice apart from other's opinions.And if u think this is so much IMO,how could u interpret in a"optimistical",i mean, less pessimistic view?

And yeah the only thing i agree with u is that humans can return from LCL sea (The same as in Evangelion on TV, I haven't paid so much attention to the plot in EoE too...)but even though it's yet a problem that doesn't matter his will,after all nobody know if some day people will recover their identity and return to world again.

In the end....EoE and EvaTV seemed to have portrait the same end,however if we look better,Shinji seems to much more pessimistic in the last one,i'm not clear of it.

[Stuart]

What you quoted in your last post Sailor Star Dust is really cool, a bit like pinching yourself to ensure that you really have woken up from a dream.

Perhaps, then, Shinji's tears could also be a sign of relief ("Thank God I'm back in reality and instrumentality is over").

Or maybe Asuka's "I feel sick" means she does physically feel ill, and with a lack of civilisation will be dead in a few days, leaving Shinji all alone yet again.

[VoidEater]

Asuka has been begging Shinji to "stand up to her", "man up", treat her as poorly as she treats him for 20-some-odd episodes.

After her roaller coaster trip with Singularity, she comes out and gets exactly what she's been asking for.

She realizes the explicit masochism of her psyche, and revolted comments on how disgusting she has been.

Personally, I think How Disgusting is a comment on how people treat each other and ask to be treated - in their ignorance - and, having been dumped back on Planet Earth they find the same old games at play. "Some of them want to use you, some of them want to be used by you; some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused..."

[DSPaul]

Hey -- new user here, and I just thought I'd drop in my two cents on this subject. There are a lot of places in Evangelion where Anno subverts our expectations for how the story is going to progress. He'll hint at one possible development -- often one that seems "obvious" or narratively fulfilling -- and then sharply contradict it, as if he's saying to the audience, "Nuh-uh. It's never that simple." I don't think he does this just to be perverse; I think he always has a reason, and this last scene is no exception.

We've just seen Shinji find the resolve to live in the real world; to try to accept himself and others. He says goodbye to his mother and symbolically lays to rest his unresolved issues. Anno could easily have ended EoE right there; or attached a coda with a happy, well-adjusted Shinji. Instead, he shows us Shinji screwing up. He loses control of his emotions, lashes out at someone he cares about, and collapses into tears of shame. Asuka's line clearly mirrors what Shinji must be thinking about himself; he wanted to make a new start, and instead finds himself making the same mistakes as before.

Now, I don't think Anno is trying to tell us that Shinji is doomed to repeat those mistakes forever. Even the most committed nihilist wouldn't spend a 26-episode series and a movie just to set up that punchline. So why doesn't he give us the happy ending that we're expecting -- and that Shinji was presumably expecting when he chose to reject Complementation? Well, because a straightforwardly happy ending would be too simple. Anno has shown us that it's possible for Shinji to become a better person, but he doesn't want us to think that it's inevitable. He undercuts Shinji's newfound hope with an example of how easily things could go wrong again, because he wants us to be genuinely uncertain about how things are going to turn out. If you've ever seen the movie Inception, you'll see a comparison:

SPOILER: Show

The camera cuts away just before we find out whether the main character has returned to the real world or is still trapped in his dream.

If it weren't for that carefully inserted ambiguity, we'd assume the "happy ending" was the real one; instead, we're left wondering.

I think the other reason Anno put in that last scene to be the screen door on Shinji's submarine may have to do with the artificiality of many fictional "epiphanies." There are plenty of stories where the protagonist experiences a moment of clarity or catharsis and almost immediately is able to resolve their personal baggage. In the real world, it's nowhere near this simple. "Closure" isn't the end of the recovery process; it's closer to the beginning. Changing your life is hard, and from time to time you'll inevitably find yourself making the same stupid mistakes you swore you'd never make again. (I'm speaking from experience, here.) Anno wants to show us that Shinji still has a long way to go, and that it's not always going to be easy.

One last thing: Unlike a lot of people, I don't buy into the assumption that Shinji and Asuka are literally the last people on earth. Yui specifically says that anyone who wants to return to their body can do so, and it beggars disbelief that Shinji and Asuka would be the best -adjusted people on Earth! However, showing them in isolation on the beach serves to drive home a thematic point: They're stuck with each other. They no longer have the option to run away from human contact -- they're going to have to learn to live with each other or die trying.

That turned out a bit longer than I expected -- I hope I didn't bore anyone. I'd like to hear any of your responses, and I look forward to spending more time on this board in the future.

[soul.assassin]

^
I like that little parallel with Inception.

On a side-note, I managed to retrieve an article that was once on the Akadot site:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040619110313/http://akadot.com/article.php?a=31

You are probably best known in the US for playing Shinji in "Evangelion." Some of Shinji's speeches sound like they might have been ad-libbed. Did you get to ad-lib and experiment when you were working on "Evangelion?"

MO: I'm delighted that you think I sounded natural as if I was doing ad-libs. I don't remember doing anything experimental. There was a time when I actually pushed Yuko Miyamura to the floor to strangle her during the last scene of the "Evangelion" movie in which Shinji strangles Asuka. I couldn't act very well in playing that scene. I was so agitated that I strangled her too hard, making it impossible for her to say her lines for a while. Of course, I apologized to her for doing that. I almost killed her.

I thought of that little scene -- and that "Love the Way You Lie" music video -- and saw that after suffering through with Asuka's insults, badgering and let-me-downs, Shinji cracks under pressure, loses his mind and self-control, and goes completely ballistic with that primal rage. It's simple as that, someone who gets real sick and tired and angry after putting up with so much excuses against repeated assaults on his dignity.

Rather than yelling back and saying "DAMN IT, I HAD ENOUGH WITH YOU!" he just goes off his rocker to neutralize the target responsible for giving him hell almost on a daily basis.

[skikes]

I can honestly say this is one scene I have never been able to make my mind up about. For years now, I've watched and re-watched EoE and that final scene still bugs me. I've read all there is to read on the matter, official statements and fan theories but none of it feels right, I just don't get it. I've come to enjoy it's ambiguity to be honest.

[Zan]

The way I always viewed the end was definitely reveling in its ambiguity, but I had my own (admittedly superficial) theory concerning Shinji's behavior. It's no secret that sometimes people get angry with the people they love, even outside of relationships as love/hate as Asuka and Shinji have. The reason we don't lash out in physical violence against those we love is that we have the mental fortitude stop ourselves from giving into barbaric and ultimately destructive actions, and instead opt for much more constructive and ultimately loving actions. Post-Instrumentality, Shinji is in a very unstable mental state at best, so he doesn't have the mental block required to not revert to a savage, instinctual action. Asuka's follow-up words I feel are due to a reason that's been said several times - she doesn't understand their or anyone's relationships.

(Note: I hope I didn't sound like "Urgh, I wanna beat people up when I'm mad all the time!" earlier. I bet we've all had moments like that, but I'm a pacifist, I swear to god)

[Eva Yojimbo]

I've read all there is to read on the matter, official statements and fan theories but none of it feels right, I just don't get it.

Even my theory? FWIW, (and this is something I don't go into on that link), I think the biggest reason behind that scene's impact is how anti-climactic and irresolute it is. It literally leaves us stuck at the beginning of the post-apocalypse, without any definitive signal of what happens, what will happens, or what has happened to the characters. It's kinda similar to Paradise Lost, but readers know what happens after it if only by virtue of having read The Bible.

[die-yng]

If I might add my two cents.
First of all, I think Shinji is just plain crazy after what happened to him, he is shellshocked and his inner turmoil expresses itself through this violent act.
When Asuka not only doesn't fight him, but actually caresses him (and with the same gesture his mother used) it pulls him back from his madness, his rage. The terror of his experiences rushes in, probably even amplified because of what he did to his love (the girl he wants to be with) and he breaks down in tears. Perfectky normal reaction, I'd say.

I don't think Asuka is upset about him not killing her. Can you imagine how strong her will to live must have been, to actually come back, after what was done to her? So why would she want him to kill her?

There are basically two different english translations for the original Japanese line "I feel sick" and "how disgusting"
to me the "I feel sick" translation, makes much more sense in the given context. Because it keeps his meaniing regardless how you interpret her motive for saying it. While "how disgusting" grinds with some of the explanationa.
BTW. I'd say that the Asuka being choked by Shinji during "Instrumentality" was not the real Asuka, but Shinji's fear of how Asuka would be.

Anyway, in my opinion the most likely interpretations are, she either is just commenting in her usual way on Shinji whining again ( and he does whine an awful lot to be honest) or she's refering to all that happened to her, maimed, killed, losing her mother once again, being forced into the instrumentality.
Like Shinji, what she experienced during instrumentaliity probably wasn't that great an experience either. Even if she is commenting on him,I don't think it is an actual judgement, just her usual way of riding him.

I think the way she was stroking his face, was so caring and gentle (and that while he tried to strangle her). It would be strange if she finds him really disgusting.

in regards to statements of Anno and voiceactors. Just because somebody remembers something in a certain way, doesn't mean it's all true. (When watching the interviews on the GITS: SAC boxex, I was amazed at how little sense some of the voiceactors opininon actually made.

My interpretation of both, the way she looks at him and the tone of her voice, is that she is simply tired, she doesn't have the energy to put emotion in her voice and actions. That can happen when ou are tired both physicall and mentally.

And really, why would the first thing coming to her mind be Sinji's masturbation? After all that happened, that is supposed to be her motivation for the sentence? Not bloody likely.

I think it is undisputed, that Shinji and Asuka are alive and together (and hopefully a little bit happier than before) after EOE, so the most pessimistic interpretations don't make sense to me.

BTW, I've heard about the "I feel sick translation," then there might be a small chance, she has "morning sickness" and that might be because she is actually pregnant. Just to show one of the really unlikely interpretations.
But I admit, that's mostly my "wished for" interpretation.

[aznskills90214]

I'm still basically trying to understand the actual events in EoE, not even getting into the psychological/metaphorical stuff. Like, I just straight-up don't even know why that happened. He was... choking her. I can't really articulate it any more explicitly than that? HE WAS CHOKING HER.

Why was he choking her?

[mastervampire]

Some people just like being choked during sex.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Alas, there was an excellent post from Anime Nation Forums which I can't find, but it more or less said how by EoE, ALL the characters were PAST their breaking points and naturally, had completely fucking snapped. Therefore, we see them at their absolute worst, lowest, points.

[aznskills90214]

Alas, there was an excellent post from Anime Nation Forums which I can't find, but it more or less said how by EoE, ALL the characters were PAST their breaking points and naturally, had completely fucking snapped. Therefore, we see them at their absolute worst, lowest, points.

So you're trying to say they were all just bat shit crazy and that's how Shinji expressed himself?
Like, I'm not disagreeing with you; that actually makes a lot of sense. I just want to make sure that's what you're actually saying.

[the_seventh_child]

I guess he was angry because there was nowhere food in sight.

Or, what SSD said. One or the other.

[Ornette]

The (long) Passage of Time thread: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/2270/Passage-of-Time-EoE-Final-Scene/

There's a lot of debate and discussion about this that span dozens of threads. Doing a search for "Shinji choke Asuka" or "Shinji strangle Asuka" over at the search page: http://forum.evageeks.org/search.php will give you some more relevant threads.

[gatotsu911]

I wrote something halfway decent in response to this question somewhere the other day. I'll see if I can dig it up. (Be warned, it's a personal interpretation rather than an authoritative "THIS IS WHY THIS HAPPENED" explanation, because I pretty strongly believe that personal interpretation is just about the only valid way to talk about the bucketfuls of emotionally subjective content in EoE.)

[EveryoneGotTurnedIntoTang]

I tend to take the Cardass explanation that Shinji was trying to see if Asuka was real and had come back after being left alone in the world for so long. That's pretty much supported by Quantum!Rei's appearance beforehand.
Of course he doesn't realize what the heck he is doing until Asuka caresses him, which causes him to cry partly because he's hurting people again and that's what he wished for, as well as a variety of reasons I would prefer not to discuss now.

[CJD]

The answer to that question is the Holy Grail of Eva fandom (or, well, one of them). Basically, as of now, the only answers you'll get are opinions, as there's no definitive answer.


Gonna repost something from an old thread.

The way I see it is that Shinji strangling her is either to verify reality, that she is in fact there, and/or to verify that she has the will to live....

Asuka reaches up to Shinji, at which point he stops strangling her. This is her verifying, to him, that she is real and has the will to live. When Shinji sees this, he lets her go and begins to cry, perhaps due to joy at not being alone, joy that Asuka is alive (Since he saw Eva 02 in such a mangled state), or perhaps the weight of everything he's seen and been through finally spills over, now that he has someone for him to cry to.

People often bring up the rusty nail as evidence that a long period of time passed, and Shinji has lost it (he knows he can kill), but, personally, I'm not convinced of that. I find it more likely that he just found a rusty nail and used that.


But, like I said, that's just my opinion, man, and it's just as questionable as every other theory.

The (long) Passage of Time thread: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/2270/Passage-of-Time-EoE-Final-Scene/

There's a lot of debate and discussion about this that span dozens of threads. Doing a search for "Shinji choke Asuka" or "Shinji strangle Asuka" over at the search page: http://forum.evageeks.org/search.php will give you some more relevant threads.

Oh! That was a thread I've never seen, but that "Card" basically says what I said! Neat.

[Fireball]

To make sure that it was real after all the mind melding accid trip is one of the popular theories. Personally, I would have grabbed her boobs though.