Effects of Rei's Cloning (again?) On Her Lifespan

[Bagheera]

When Ritsuko turns on Gendo and Rei by destroying the dummy plug plant, she also stops aiding Rei . Like I said I'm not quite sure, but it could be one of the reasons Rei started falling apart in EoE.

I suspect that's more to do with her proximity to Lilith than anything else. Note she was badass powerful in 24, long after Ritsuko had destroyed her clones.

Also note the MPEs had activated their AATFs at the time. We didn't actually see it do anything (unless the Red Earth Ceremony was carried out using them, but it's never made clear how exactly the Geofront is excavated in that sequence), and she might have been more sensitive to it than most owing to her fragmented soul or whatever.

Basically there are an awful lot of moving parts in the show at that point, so we can't really assume much.

[Reichu]

The clones fall apart due to "destrudo release"; which implies that the clones had a latent potency for self-destruction that has been inhibited, Ritsuko removes this obstacle, and the clones can subsequently undergo spontaneous suicide. The way Rei 3 (and, later, GNR) begins to fall apart is quite similar, so the root cause may be fundamentally the same. That is, it's a form of self-destruction.

I'd suggest that Rei is intrinsically predisposed toward this, and at least some of her supplements keep her body intact by suppressing her destrudo (albeit not enough for her to value her existence that much). Rei 3, ever the rebel, probably stopped taking her supplements, leaving her in a state susceptible to destrudo release.

[NemZ]

She also may have just been swimming in the disembodied remains of her 'sisters', perhaps becoming contaminated with the same destrudo-releasing whatever in the process.

[Reichu]

She also may have just been swimming in the disembodied remains of her 'sisters', perhaps becoming contaminated with the same destrudo-releasing whatever in the process.

She was looking at their disembodied remains, not swimming in them. Her soak was at a different location.

Also, since "destrudo release" implies the clones "willfully" destroyed themselves, it suggests that Ritsuko removed an element preventing this, as opposed to adding an element inducing it. (If you were suggesting otherwise.)

[SenorSquiid]

Re: Pills

Rei was made by scientists. She doesn't look like Yui entirely. Her age is artifically advanced probably with magic future science. Since magic future science is very intimately involved with her body's creation and control of it's growth, it's logical to assume the pills performed some kind of function on her body. Or maybe they surpressed her AT Field, and she had quit taking them before End of Evangelion, say around the time the rest of the clones were destroyed. If they had some effect of extending ehr life, the destruction of all other avenues of being forced to return were broken, thus empowering her death wish. But Rei really isn't the type to just slit her wrists in the bathtub, so she played along, because she's always been sued to it. She was going to savor her disintegration, and maybe get lucky and die before Third Impact. But she didn't, but only at the end did her concern for Shinji snap her out of her funk.

In end of Eva we see Rei leave a room where it's clealry indicated that she has not taken her pills. This wasn't just a sign of her rejection of Gendo. The presence of the pills,a nd the water beaker in her room were clearly otherly, indicating Rei has something going on medically.

Then we see Rei floating, naked. Not giving a shit anymore. Like maybe she made a decision to be free of something...and floating even in the tanks where she was created.

Then we see her looking at all of her dead bodies. She can't come back, she's shutting down. gendo comes along and she does what she's told because that's what she's always done. She is going to die, she doesn't care about Gendo anymore, but she sticks to the schedule ebcause she's punctual.

While she's free of her desire to please Gendo, she still follows her orders, only stopping because she realizes she cares about Shinji. At this point her body is literally disintegrating.



In re: PWM Whatever she's made out of, she can be killed by strangulation.

[Stryker]

SenorSquiid's theory seems to make sense.

The only problem is that although she doesn't seem to care about herself (I.E: poor apartment sanitation, "Wolfish Hair"), she doesn't exactly hate herself. She does wish it to end, but she can wait for her death. So, why speed her death if she is ever so patient for it (unless we look at it EoTV way, where she is now scared of it... right?).

[SenorSquiid]

SenorSquiid's theory seems to make sense.

The only problem is that although she doesn't seem to care about herself (I.E: poor apartment sanitation, "Wolfish Hair"), she doesn't exactly hate herself. She does wish it to end, but she can wait for her death. So, why speed her death if she is ever so patient for it (unless we look at it EoTV way, where she is now scared of it... right?).

Well, Rei has never been one to rush a task. I think the method she chose tied in with her apathy. She stopped taking her pills to die. She was going to die. She didn't need to speed it along.

Also probably feeding into her not taking her pills: her use was at an End. The last angel was gone and she knew what comes next. Either way she wasn't going to need them any more.

[Sgt. Griff]

...we don't know if Lilith even has ovaries, or a womb (unless it's in her head, and that's where Unit-01 hangs out in EoE)/...

That's where her Vag is at least.

[SenorSquiid]

^^
Gives a whole new meaning to mindfuck, doesn't it?

[Archont]

An Rei saw that it was good.

Back on topic: I don't think Rei had a death wish. She was just apathetic, uhm, to the core, perhaps due to her fragmented soul (a piece of it was put into Eva Unit 00, right? and it was a childish one, all the little joy and fun). If the pills "surpressed her AT Field, and she had quit taking", this means, for me at last, a wish to live (hell, AT Field is a weapon with purpose to protect "the holy light of soul", or how Kaworu called it). Rei could fancy about "return to nothingness", but when things got real, you needed (Teh) Commander Ikari to get her move from that chair. And she seemed to wait for any excuse to break the leash.

But this scary me. Gendo's plan for Instrumentality required to take Rei's soul? You mean, literally?

[SenorSquiid]

An Rei saw that it was good.

Back on topic: I don't think Rei had a death wish. She was just apathetic, uhm, to the core, perhaps due to her fragmented soul (a piece of it was put into Eva Unit 00, right? and it was a childish one, all the little joy and fun). If the pills "surpressed her AT Field, and she had quit taking", this means, for me at last, a wish to live (hell, AT Field is a weapon with purpose to protect "the holy light of soul", or how Kaworu called it). Rei could fancy about "return to nothingness", but when things got real, you needed (Teh) Commander Ikari to get her move from that chair. And she seemed to wait for any excuse to break the leash.

But this scary me. Gendo's plan for Instrumentality required to take Rei's soul? You mean, literally?

^^
Well, hers, and literally everyone else in the world's soul.

But your other points are of quality. I think I summed it up wrong by calling Rei apathetic about her suicide. She wanted it. The word I should have used was passive. Rei is a passive character largely defined by her non-actions, hence her passive suicide.

[Archont]

Well, hers, and literally everyone else in the world's soul.

No, I meant something different... What came to my mind was the idea, that Gendo's version of Instrumentality requires putting Lilith's soul into Adam embryo. This would render Rei soulless piece of flesh slowly decomposing in the puddle of LCL. I red somewhere on this forum, that for the rest of humanity The Blissful State Of Tang would be temporary: once Gendo rejoins Yui he will kick out everyone from "the ark of Eva" and, as I understand, the two will remain there forever, while ordinary people will return to their ordinary life. But not the Rei, since she will be stone cold dead.

tl;dr - for Gendo Rei isn't human being, she's only kinda of automatic vessel for Lilith soul.

Rei is a passive character largely defined by her non-actions, hence her passive suicide.

You got point, though one can argue even with that. When Rei II actually commits suicide, she disobeys direct order, in act of her own volition. And when she resurrects as Rei III, she begins to act... a little different. Like if she was damned sure that Gendo will save her in the battlefield, no matter what, and the fact he didn't leads her to, uhm, questioning the authority. When Gendo calls her to fulfill her "purpose of existence", he gets that cold glance, like if she was saying "all right, I go. But give me the right and excuse and you will hear what I think of you." And that exactly happens. Quite not passive (as for her), I think.

tl;dr: Rei's attitude slightly changes towards the end of the anime.

[Redaye]

If real-world genetic science still applies regarding imperfection, could the "copy of a copy" defect play in (assuming Rei's clones were all gen-1)? New wine into old wineskins, as it were?

[Archont]

Perhaps yes, because brain structure is geneticaly encoded, perhaps not, since brain developement (and the whole body developement) strongly depends on conditions in the womb, especially on mother's hormon level in umbilical blood and we may suppose that in Rei's case those conditions are strictly planned and monitored.

And of course there is the whole soul business on top of that.

[Drabant]

What Reichu writes further up about the destrudo release makes great sense to me, but with a few additions/notes:

Rei clones have no souls, and therefore perhaps no AT-field. They would perhaps fall apart without a soul. Rei who has a soul, but is not created or born normally like a human, would maybe have some overlapping tendencies.

Destrudo is also mentioned once more in EoE, where Shinji's AT-field is in the process of breaking down.

In summary I think Rei and her clones have a predisposition against falling apart, but this isn't really related to the psyche. The psyche might be affected by this of course, so the other way around might apply.

This would also mean that we are talking about some energy field and not a chemical.

An Rei saw that it was good.

Back on topic: I don't think Rei had a death wish.

Like you, I don't think Rei had a death wish either, but she did yearn to return to a state of nothingness, or just non-human form - not death, but to return to her true self, Lilith. Could be strands of the fractured souls pulling at eachother, I have no idea.

Still, Rei ends up dead more than once, but I believe her willingness to accept that has a very simple reason: She can be replaced, and she knows it. Now, not replaced entirely, but revived into a new body. So the things that make Rei Rei, her body and how people perceive her, can be replaced. She's got this figured out.

Rei is a rational and logical being (more than average), and she knows that if she can be reborn, and she already knows it has happened once, she'll try using that to her end. Meaning she can go further than any other pilot in risking herself, which explains her willingness to accept dangerous assignments.

This still doesn't change how she's unhappy and lonely. Being unique in a large underground facility, being treated as a tool, and knowing what Rei knows will make you unhappy.