Evas as Nephilim

[EvangelionOtaku]

I have a hypothesis regarding the nature of the Evas. As you may be aware, the Evas are actually biological beings (and sons of god/YHWH). I think that the Evas are actually the Nephilim or giants spoken of in the Book of Genesis (of the Hebrew Bible) and elsewhere in apocryphal literature such as the Book of Enoch and fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls from lost works such as the Book of Giants and Manichaean literature and writings. The Hebrew Bible (or Torah) speaks of Giants who in that day (ancient times) walked the earth along with man. This adds yet another biblical aspect to Evangelion, which is primarily a homage to biblical (or judaic) lore and legend (as is, for example, the Halo series).

[AuraTwilight]

They're not literally the children of any divine figure. They're clones of a big-ass space alien powerful enough to ruin planets.

[EvangelionOtaku]

If we understand that the gods are in fact extraterrestrials who were worshipped by humans far inferior to them, then YHWH is an alien, as are the other gods. Also, that the Evas are clones of a space alien doesn't rebuke my hypothesis that they are Nephilim. The big ass space aliens may have been what was meant by giants that walked the earth and fallen angels. Fallen angels = space aliens. It is even theorized that the Nephilim have an extraterrestrial origin, a topic discussed in several books (just search 'nephilim' on amazon, for example). So again, I still say the Evas are indeed the Nephilim. The space aliens that ejected bio-material to earth (which ultimately evolved into humans and non-human animals) are honored as Gods from the human perspective, sure, but they aren't literally deities.

[Reichu]

What do ambiguously extraterrestrial giants who wandered the Earth in Biblical times have to do with enslaved "artificial human" giants generated from aliens via cloning in the 21st century?

[EvangelionOtaku]

What do ambiguously extraterrestrial giants who wandered the Earth in Biblical times have to do with enslaved "artificial human" giants generated from aliens via cloning in the 21st century?

Possibly everything, which was my point if you even read anything I wrote. The 'human giants' you refer to are Nephilim. It is also consistent with where we know Evangelion draws inspiration from. I'm really surprised you chimed in at all. The aliens they were generated from were the Nephilim and the Nephilim were cloned to be 21st century enslaved beings, forced to do the will of humans.

[palehorseXIII]

I hope this doesn't come off as condescending because I'm really not trying to be but just out of curiosity have you only watched the series without doing much further reading?

Reason I ask is because this doesn't sound all that off base if you've only watched through the series once. I though some pretty wacky things too at first.

[Alaska Slim]

The 'human giants' you refer to are Nephilim. It is also consistent with where we know Evangelion draws inspiration from.

One problem, Evangelion draws most of its contextual references (angel names and nature, the tree of life, SEELE's logo, etc.) not from the Bible, but the Kabbalah, a collection of Jewish mysticism. And it just so happens the Jews have a slightly different view/translation of who the Nephilim were.

Still, it's an interesting muse.

[Allemann]

Nephilim literally means "the fallen ones". The translation of the word as giants (gigantes) appears in the Septuagint, whose translators were influenced by the Greek stories of the titans. There are two understandings of the nephilim: angelic beings or fallen renowned warriors. Any in case, it isn't about literal giants.

[Stryker]

Any in case, it isn't about literal giants.

Which, the Evas are anyways.

[Born of Lilith]

They're not literally the children of any divine figure. They're clones of a big-ass space alien powerful enough to ruin planets.

Perfect example of, just like how in real life it's more fun to speculate imaginatively on how fucking magnets work than get the scientific answers, fanwanking Eva is often more fun than going by canon. :P

[AuraTwilight]

If we understand that the gods are in fact extraterrestrials who were worshipped by humans far inferior to them, then YHWH is an alien, as are the other gods. Also, that the Evas are clones of a space alien doesn't rebuke my hypothesis that they are Nephilim. The big ass space aliens may have been what was meant by giants that walked the earth and fallen angels. Fallen angels = space aliens. It is even theorized that the Nephilim have an extraterrestrial origin, a topic discussed in several books (just search 'nephilim' on amazon, for example). So again, I still say the Evas are indeed the Nephilim. The space aliens that ejected bio-material to earth (which ultimately evolved into humans and non-human animals) are honored as Gods from the human perspective, sure, but they aren't literally deities.

The creators of the Angels never visited our planet. There is no way they are at all analogous to any of the deities humanity has ever imagined.

[Synapsid]

What do ambiguously extraterrestrial giants who wandered the Earth in Biblical times have to do with enslaved "artificial human" giants generated from aliens via cloning in the 21st century?

Well, don't they call them angels? That may not literally be what they are, but the Nephilim-Eva idea isn’t a bad analogy.

After all weren’t the nephilim supposed to be the monstrous giants produced by angels violating humans? That’s pretty close to the EVAs (along with Kaworu and Rei in EOE) being the monstrous giants produced by human/angel contact... Just with the twist that humanity was the one at fault.
Seeing as how Evangelion took other concepts and adapted them to its own purposes, Nephilim are hardly out of place.

[AuraTwilight]

Eve wasn't a Nephilim, so comparing the Evas to them kinda fucks up the Adam and Eve analogy.

If the Nephilim comparison is appropriate anywhere, it's for Kaworu and Rei.

[Synapsid]

Eve wasn't a Nephilim, so comparing the Evas to them kinda fucks up the Adam and Eve analogy.

Adam's a mother and the EVA's are her bastard children. I don't think a decent Adam and Eve comparison was possible to begin with. At least not unless if you see it as the primordial man-woman Adam Kadamon and the Rei-Kaworu-SoL-Yui chimera in EoE being it’s equivalent.

If the Nephilim comparison is appropriate anywhere, it's for Kaworu and Rei.

Sure, why not: given their human-angel duality and propensity for turning into giant monsters Nephilim's got to be one of the more valid comparisons out there.

[Oral Stage]

"Man has become, so to speak, a God with artificial limbs." - Sigmund Freud, Civilization and its Discontents

[EvangelionOtaku]

The creators of the Angels never visited our planet. There is no way they are at all analogous to any of the deities humanity has ever imagined.

That's just not true and you have no basis for saying that. Even if the creator of the angels hadn't visited earth, their creator could be speculated upon and regarded as a deity, nor does that fact or non-fact negate the idea that the Evas are the Nephilim spoken of in ancient texts. The ideations of deities are imagined and not necessarily based on fact. Some ancient humans thought that their very existence proved that a god must exist since everything needs (in their view) to have a creator, even though they did not experience such a god themselves, they could still draw up stories and myths. They made up lies, call them white lies if you want or just bard's tales. Some source of reasoning and logic in the absence of technology and science.

[Alaska Slim]

nor does that fact or non-fact negate the idea that the Evas are the Nephilim spoken of in ancient texts.

No, what negates it is the actual translation and context:

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of the nobles would come to the daughters of man, and they would bear for them; they are the mighty men, who were of old, the men of renown.

The Nephilim, in the Torah, are not decedents of Angels, rather, they are decedents of Seth, and daughters of Cain, their "fallen" status referring to their own rebellion against God.

Could the Eva staff have gone with an incorrect translation? Possibly, but when it has come to the nature of the Angels, it's been the Judaic interpretation they've most adhered to.

The ideations of deities are imagined

Perhaps, but this one ideation that is not a deity. They were formidable warriors of an uncircumcised people, whom God specifically targeted to be destroyed in the Flood, that's all.

[EvangelionOtaku]

No, what negates it is the actual translation and context:


The Nephilim, in the Torah, are not decedents of Angels, rather, they are decedents of Seth, and daughters of Cain, their "fallen" status referring to their own rebellion against God.

Could the Eva staff have gone with an incorrect translation? Possibly, but when it has come to the nature of the Angels, it's been the Judaic interpretation they've most adhered to.


Perhaps, but this one ideation that is not a deity. They were formidable warriors of an uncircumcised people, whom God specifically targeted to be destroyed in the Flood, that's all.

Just about everything you wrote is totally wrong. For one thing, it isn't 'God', it's YHWH, there is no single 'God', there are gods from a variety of traditions, many of them former tribal deities with or without consorts (YHWH's consort was a female deity Asherah, hence the tradition of creating Asherah poles as homages to YHWH's consort). So YHWH is a tribal deity, to be specific.

Next, you state that YHWH specifically targeted the Nephilim with his genocidal flood. This is totally false. Nowhere in the Torah does it state that god decided to create an episode of 'justifiable genocide' with the flood to whipe out the Nephilim. It says, instead, that he saw humans as totally wicked and decided to kill all of them indiscriminately to cleanse the world. There's nothing about the flood targeting the Nephilim.

The translation you are quoting is wrong. It isn't 'the sons of nobles', it's the 'sons of God' and a more accurate translation is the 'sons of Elohim'.

Genesis Chapter 6:4

The Nephilim were in the land in those days, and also, afterwards, when the sons of the ELOHIM came toward the daughters of soil-man, and they brought forth for them -- these were the mighty ones that were from an age, men of the name.

Source: [url]http://originalbible.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/genesis1-12version10.pdf[/url]

Original Bible Project (Transparent English Bible or TEB) translation of Genesis (Bere'sheet).

The Transparent English Bible/Original Bible Project (see: [url]http://originalbible.com/translation-sample-genesis-1-12[/url]) is without a doubt the most accurate translation of the Torah yet and is also a sacred names translation, revealing the different names (such as YHWH or YHWH ELOHIM) used for the respective deity. So yes, just as angels are the sons of God, so are the Nephilim. They are not the sons of nobles, that is a mistranslation you quoted. They are the sons of ELOHIM, ie. God as you like to say.

YHWH's target with the flood is humans and his reasoning is given in the same chapter of Genesis I quoted. Genesis 6

5 And YHVH saw that the bad of the soil-man was abundant in the land, and every shaping of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all day. 6 And YHVH was sorry that he had made the soil-man on the land, and it made distress toward his heart. 7 And YHVH sad, "I will wipe out the soil-man that I have created from upon the face of the soil --- from soil-man, to animal, to moving thing, and to flyer of the skies; for I am sorry that I made them."

source: Transparent English Bible (TEB) translation, see the link provided above

No mention in his reasoning is made of Nephilim, YHWH doesn't say he's sorry for creating the Nephilim and the Nephilim have been bad or wicked.

[Allemann]

YHWH's consort was a female deity Asherah, hence the tradition of creating Asherah poles as homages to YHWH's consort

The grammar of the inscriptions show that asherah is to be treated as a common noun, not a proper name. It refers to a cult symbol. Whether it refers to Asherah is ambiguous, for during the second temple period, the practice was to address YHWH and a personified cult object together (To Yah and to you, O Altar! To Yah and to you, O Altar!) with the intent of showing comparable status.

In any case, the Asherah cult was widespread in Israel and Judea, which is also mentioned in the Bible (Deut 16:21; 1 Kings 15:13). Next to the Mosaic monotheism. there was parallel syncretistic cult of Yahwism with pagan elements. Polytheism and syncretism was rampant until the kingdoms was conquered by invaders and the Hebrews oriented themselves to complete monotheism.

No mention in his reasoning is made of Nephilim, YHWH doesn't say he's sorry for creating the Nephilim and the Nephilim have been bad or wicked.

Fallen warriors are bad and wicked. When you're judging the entire humanity, there's no reason to single them out.

[EvangelionOtaku]

The grammar of the inscriptions show that asherah is to be treated as a common noun, not a proper name. It refers to a cult symbol. Whether it refers to Asherah is ambiguous, for during the second temple period, the practice was to address YHWH and a personified cult object together (To Yah and to you, O Altar! To Yah and to you, O Altar!) with the intent of showing comparable status.

In any case, the Asherah cult was widespread in Israel and Judea, which is also mentioned in the Bible (Deut 16:21; 1 Kings 15:13). Next to the Mosaic monotheism. there was parallel syncretistic cult of Yahwism with pagan elements. Polytheism and syncretism was rampant until the kingdoms was conquered by invaders and the Hebrews oriented themselves to complete monotheism.



Fallen warriors are bad and wicked. When you're judging the entire humanity, there's no reason to single them out.

That's wrong, there are inscriptions found in the area that do refer to Asherah as a proper name. Not only that, her name is paired with YHWH in some of these ancient inscriptions. Also, the Hebrews of ancient times were never entirely monotheistic and it took a very long time (centuries) for monotheism to develop and maturate. It did not just happen suddenly or within a single year or month. Also, you are quoting me as pointing out that YHWH didn't single the Nephilim out but I was responding to the poster above me who asserted and claimed that YHWH did single the Nephilim out. It's like you completely ignored who I was responding to and making it seem like I was the one claiming that YHWH did target the Nephilim when my whole point was to rebuke such a claim. If you doubt my claims about Asherah or monotheism, I strongly suggest you brush up on the history, archeology and anthropology of the area (which is not encapsulated in the Torah or Tanakh). I suggest you read 'Who Were the Early Israelites and Where Did They Come From?' by William G. Dever or 'Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel' also by William G. Dever. Furthermore, nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is it stated that Nephilim are fallen warriors nor that they are bad or wicked, you are making that claim up based on apocryphal literature not canonical literature. It's texts like the Book of Enoch which portray them as such and refer to them as fallen and wicked.