Help with End of Evangelion Script translation

[chaosakita]

After consulting multiple translations of EoE, I have discovered that the script of one of my favorite movies isn't what I thought it was. While the available translations are very good and definitely help convey the general meanings of the movie, I don't think they are all as accurate or consistent as they could be. To change this, I've decided to come up with my own script. Now I have to admit, I really don't know as much Japanese as I'd like, but Google translate and a good Japanese dictionary can help with most of that. Most of the dialogue is simple. However, with more difficult passages, I find that I end up copying (or rather, plagiarizing) from whatever translation I think is the most accurate. Now, I don't think this is a wholly bad thing, but I think I'd rather get a completely new translation that isn't completely plagiarized.

So, would anyone with a good sense of Japanese like to help me on the BEST and MOST ACCURATE End of Evangelion translation ever? It won't take much work - all I would like is for someone to help me translate a couple of lines (albeit quite difficult ones). I'll give you full credit if I ever get done with this project and decide to post it.

EDIT: For reference, here are the translations.

[ed]

understanding Japanese isn't really hard for me ,my problem is how to translate it into english properly

[symbv]

So, would anyone with a good sense of Japanese like to help me on the BEST and MOST ACCURATE End of Evangelion translation ever? It won't take much work - all I would like is for someone to help me translate a couple of lines (albeit quite difficult ones). I'll give you full credit if I ever get done with this project and decide to post it.

No problem. I translated the whole RCB back in 1998 and I think my Japanese has improved since. If it is just a few lines it should not be a problem -- but I have to say that English is not my first language so my translation may not be that natural. If this is fine I am happy to help.

[chaosakita]

No problem. I translated the whole RCB back in 1998 and I think my Japanese has improved since. If it is just a few lines it should not be a problem -- but I have to say that English is not my first language so my translation may not be that natural. If this is fine I am happy to help.

That's not a problem for me. I want a literal translation - naturalness can come later.

[gwern]

After consulting multiple translations of EoE, I have discovered that the script of one of my favorite movies isn't what I thought it was. While the available translations are very good and definitely help convey the general meanings of the movie, I don't think they are all as accurate or consistent as they could be. To change this, I've decided to come up with my own script.

Which ones have you consulted? Where did you find them lacking?

[chaosakita]

Which ones have you consulted? Where did you find them lacking?

I've looked at the A2000A translation, the Bochan_bird translation, and Yasuyuki Sato translation you've recently posted. One thing that I don't like is the individual translation of words. I know it's a personal preference thing, but I simply feel that the translations, while accurate, aren't conveying the meaning of the original script as well as they could be. Also, not all the translations are consistent with each other - that means that at least one of them has to be wrong.

Here's are some examples:

Original:
シンジ: またいつものように僕を馬鹿にしてよっ!
(Shinji: Mata itsumo no you ni boku o baka ni shite yo!)

A2000A:
Why don't you make fun of me like you used to?

Yasuyuki Sato:
Make fun of me again, like you always do!

Bochan_bird:
Call me an idiot like always!

My translation: Call me an idiot like usual!

The original specifically refers to Asuka calling him "baka", so I feel that the first two sort of miss the mark here.

Original:
シゲル: ああ、全ての使徒は消えたはずだ
(Shigeru: Aa, subete no shito wa kieta hazuda)

A2000A:
Yes, all the angels were supposedly destroyed.

Yasuyuki Sato:
Yeah, all the Angels must have been eliminated.

Bochan_bird:
That's right. All the angels have been destroyed.

My translation: Yes, all of the angels should have disappeared.

"消えた" in this line literally refers to disappearing, but I couldn't find any other connotations that would suggest the word meaning anything else. (Unless he actually means "made to disappear"?) I guess this hilights the need still for someone to proofread my work...

Also, Bochan_bird didn't translate in "はずだ" ("supposed to"), which means that this statement isn't supposed to be definitive like her (?) translation makes it.

Original:
ミサト:出来損ないの群体として既に行き詰まった人類を
完全な単体としての生物へと人工進化させる補完計画。

A2000A:
Humans are incomplete...
...and they must become independent life forms
by means of the Instrumentality Project...

Yasuyuki Sato:
Since humanity is a failure which has already reached a dead end in evolving as a colony,
...the Human Instrumentality Project will artificially force the human race to evolve into a perfect single being.

Bochan_bird:
Having reached its limit as a colony of flawed and separate entities,
Humankind is to be artificially evolved into a perfect single being.
The Instrumentality Project...

My translation:

Since the human race as a colony is a failure stuck at a dead end,
it will be artificially forced into evolving as a perfect single being by the Human Instrumentality Project.

These were some very tough lines to translate, and I still don't claim that these lines are accurate. Still, I felt that the A2000A totally missed the mark by leaving out half the words from the original lines.

And here is an example of a line I am really, really having trouble with:

Original:
冬月: 人は生きて行こうとするところにその存在がある。
それが自らエヴァに残った彼女の願いだからな。

A2000A:
The meaning of humanity is their wish to survive.
That's the hope of the woman who willingly stayed inside the Eva.

Yasuyuki Sato:
"People have a reason for existence as long as they continue
to try to live,"
...that is what she who chose to remain in Eva wished.

Bochan_bird:
Humans exist because they have the will to live...
And that is the reason she remained within Eva.

I understand that Yui was an optimist about human nature and so and so, but I still don't understand the what the cause and effect are. Bochan_bird seems to be the only person who translated in "だから" (therefore), but the two other translators give no mention as to whether her optimism was the reason she stayed in Eva. On the other hand, Bochan_bird left out "願い" (wish), while the A2000A translation translates it as "hope", which I don't feel is quite the same thing.

Also, everyone translated what Yui believed differently. I mean, not a big deal in the long run, but still, we're not getting the full meaning the story.

I'm not criticizing the translators - I just feel that their translations could use some improvement. I'm very glad that they've decided to let English-speaking audiences also experience the End of Evangelion, but now I feel like it's time that we can understand what was really intended here. [/quote]

[gwern]

Bochan_bird is a guy incidentally, Brendan Jamieson. (You can verify this by reading old EML emails, or looking at the WHOIS for evaotaku.com.)

I'm not sure your examples justify an entire translation, which would be a lot of work, but rather, focus on individual lines like your colony and Yui examples. But I'm glad to see you've at least thought about it.

Hm, while I'm at it, I think there are 2 other EoE translations - the Manga one, obviously, and also the one used by the fansubbers who released the Renewal edition of EoE. I don't know where to get a transcript of the Manga subs, but I know I have a copy of that Renewal burned to disc somewhere; wonder if I can extract the subs from it.

[Ornette]

Bochan_bird is a guy incidentally, Brendan Jamieson. (You can verify this by reading old EML emails, or looking at the WHOIS for evaotaku.com.)

If they really are the same person (I never thought they were) he's doing a pretty good job obsfucating it. Brendan thanks Bochan Bird on his site in his FAQ. A quick look through some EML emails when they were both posting at the same time (mid-2007), Bochan was using (and sending from, if you look at the email headers) a Japanese MTA and IP, while Brendan was using gmail via a web client. On Aug 26, 2007, Bochan announced that he will no longer contribute manga translations. This is the same email address that he's used but the "Real Name" has changed starting from around Dec 23 2005 when the real "Bochan Bird" died (his blue parakeet) and so he changed signature from "Bochan Bird" to "M" (for Mourning), and has been using that since his departure from the list in 2007. As for Brendan, I know he has an account here and at the very least Aaron knows him, but his posting IPs from the same period of time doesn't match Bochan's.

[chaosakita]

Bochan_bird is a guy incidentally, Brendan Jamieson. (You can verify this by reading old EML emails, or looking at the WHOIS for evaotaku.com.)

I'm not sure your examples justify an entire translation, which would be a lot of work, but rather, focus on individual lines like your colony and Yui examples. But I'm glad to see you've at least thought about it.

I'm barely in through the translation (I've just translated up to Fuyutsuki's lines about Yui) and these are only some of the inconsistencies/mistakes I could find. Since no existing script is perfect, I think people should get a new script that has the least errors possible. It's the very difficult lines that take up the most time, and translating the rest of the script that allows me to tell people what the best translation of those words are.

[gwern]

Well, maybe I'm mistaken, Ornette. Looking through evaotaku.com, I see that Bochan_bird is listed as the translator, as I remembered, but pages also list Jamieson as the editor (eg. http://www.evaotaku.com/html/screenplay.html ) which is a little hard to explain if I had been right about them being the same person... I still think Bochan_bird's emails read as 'male' and maybe he mentions that somewhere, but I'm not so sure anymore.

[chaosakita]

To me, it sounds like Bochan_bird did the translations and Brendan simply hosted them on his website.

[symbv]

Also, not all the translations are consistent with each other - that means that at least one of them has to be wrong.

Translation is often more like art so total consistency among different translation is almost impossible. When I read professional English and modern Japanese translation of classic works like Genji Monogatari, the issue is even more visible. That said, I can see from the examples you quoted below that the available translations still have room of improvement.

My translation: Call me an idiot like usual!

The original specifically refers to Asuka calling him "baka", so I feel that the first two sort of miss the mark here.

I think we do not need to always translate "baka" as "idiot" because "baka ni shite" could indeed mean "make fun of". But if the context has the word "baka" just before this phrase, perhaps putting the "idiot" word here can re-create the parallel as in the original.

My translation: Yes, all of the angels should have disappeared.

"消えた" in this line literally refers to disappearing, but I couldn't find any other connotations that would suggest the word meaning anything else. (Unless he actually means "made to disappear"?) I guess this hilights the need still for someone to proofread my work...

Also, Bochan_bird didn't translate in "はずだ" ("supposed to"), which means that this statement isn't supposed to be definitive like her (?) translation makes it.

Good point, though I would just translate it as "Yes, all the angels should have gone". Disappear made it seem like they disappear by themselves, but "消えた" can carry "eliminate" or "remove" connotation. It is a word often used in thriller literature to indicate the target was "removed" or "eliminated". But if we do not want to make the connotation too explicit, I suggest we translate it as simply "gone". Disappear does not sound the most suitable here.

My translation:

Since the human race as a colony is a failure stuck at a dead end,
it will be artificially forced into evolving as a perfect single being by the Human Instrumentality Project.

These were some very tough lines to translate, and I still don't claim that these lines are accurate. Still, I felt that the A2000A totally missed the mark by leaving out half the words from the original lines.

I think your translation is a very good one.

And here is an example of a line I am really, really having trouble with:



I understand that Yui was an optimist about human nature and so and so, but I still don't understand the what the cause and effect are. Bochan_bird seems to be the only person who translated in "だから" (therefore), but the two other translators give no mention as to whether her optimism was the reason she stayed in Eva. On the other hand, Bochan_bird left out "願い" (wish), while the A2000A translation translates it as "hope", which I don't feel is quite the same thing.

Also, everyone translated what Yui believed differently. I mean, not a big deal in the long run, but still, we're not getting the full meaning the story.

Again very good points here. Only B_b translated "dakara" (therefore) but he did not translate "negai" (wish). And I agree that here wish is more suitable than hope, although "negai" can mean both.


On Bochan_bird, I remember working with him in various translation effort on Eva back in the days of EML (Evangelion Mailing List) in late 90s. I think he was living in Japan then but I do not know where he went or what he did after I dropped out of anime/manga scene 11 years ago.

[chaosakita]

Thanks for the reply.

I think we do not need to always translate "baka" as "idiot" because "baka ni shite" could indeed mean "make fun of". But if the context has the word "baka" just before this phrase, perhaps putting the "idiot" word here can re-create the parallel as in the original.

I guess this is a problem due to me not knowing connotations.

Good point, though I would just translate it as "Yes, all the angels should have gone". Disappear made it seem like they disappear by themselves, but "消えた" can carry "eliminate" or "remove" connotation. It is a word often used in thriller literature to indicate the target was "removed" or "eliminated". But if we do not want to make the connotation too explicit, I suggest we translate it as simply "gone". Disappear does not sound the most suitable here.

Good point. I think "should have been gone" is what's best here.

[Avatar of Dreams]

I think symbv has said everything that needs to be said but I'll add some stuff.

My translation: Call me an idiot like usual!

As symbv said, "馬鹿にする" is more along the lines of "to make fun of". Your translation would be more fitting if the line ended with "馬鹿と呼んでよ！". I think Yasuyuki's translation is the most accurate here.

Good point, though I would just translate it as "Yes, all the angels should have gone". Disappear made it seem like they disappear by themselves, but "消えた" can carry "eliminate" or "remove" connotation. It is a word often used in thriller literature to indicate the target was "removed" or "eliminated". But if we do not want to make the connotation too explicit, I suggest we translate it as simply "gone". Disappear does not sound the most suitable here.

Agreed. But "should have gone" sounds like the Angels went somewhere which is probably why they translated it as "destroyed" to avoid confusion as to how the Angels 消えた. Maybe "should be gone"?

My translation:

Since the human race as a colony is a failure stuck at a dead end,
it will be artificially forced into evolving as a perfect single being by the Human Instrumentality Project.

Good translation but I like the term "evolutionary dead end". Did they use that in the dub? I don't remember.

I understand that Yui was an optimist about human nature and so and so, but I still don't understand the what the cause and effect are. Bochan_bird seems to be the only person who translated in "だから" (therefore), but the two other translators give no mention as to whether her optimism was the reason she stayed in Eva. On the other hand, Bochan_bird left out "願い" (wish), while the A2000A translation translates it as "hope", which I don't feel is quite the same thing.

By cause and effect, are you referring to the "kara" at the end? I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that "kara" is sometimes used at the end of a sentence to imply an effect that can be inferred by the hearer so it doesn't need to be said. In this case the literal translation would be something like "That's the wish of the woman who willingly stayed inside the Eva (Therefore she willingly stayed inside the Eva)". As you can see, the second part isn't necessary. The sentence can be written as "それが女の願いだから自らエヴァに残った" to simplify the meaning (which is what Bochan_bird was trying to imply).

[chaosakita]

By cause and effect, are you referring to the "kara" at the end? I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that "kara" is sometimes used at the end of a sentence to imply an effect that can be inferred by the hearer so it doesn't need to be said. In this case the literal translation would be something like "That's the wish of the woman who willingly stayed inside the Eva (Therefore she willingly stayed inside the Eva)". As you can see, the second part isn't necessary. The sentence can be written as "それが女の願いだから自らエヴァに残った" to simplify the meaning (which is what Bochan_bird was trying to imply).

I disagree on the second part not being necessary. I think it's not something that really can be inferred on itself and its absence removes a whole dimension of Yui's character. (And the plot, too)

But thanks for the comments. I love any help I can get.

Here is my new translation:

That's the hope of the woman who thus willingly chose to stay inside the Eva.

[bjamieson]

To me, it sounds like Bochan_bird did the translations and Brendan simply hosted them on his website.

This is correct. He'd translate and I'd offer opinions when he had questions on certain lines and things of that nature. We're two different people. He's been working in Japan for 15+ years now I think. I live in Chicago. Also, if I had been pretending to be two different people it'd be super creepy.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Not sure if this is a close enough thread, but it'll do. I have a Shinji bot on Twitter that says series lines and random stuff in both English and Japanese.

A Japanese fan pointed out this:

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

In this situation, it's not "help" but a Biblical salvation is intended. "Deliver me from hardship, Asuka. Save me." I believe is the case.

Thought it was interesting, but I Direct Messaged them and mentioned how both the TV end and EoE translate Shinji's lines as "Help me".

[JoeD80]

助けて can be 'save' or 'help' or 'rescue' or 'relieve'; don't think there's really any deep meaning there connecting to a biblical sense. It's more about the context of Shinji needing to use Asuka for his own selfish reasons, thus leading to the masturbation scene.

[Mjolnir Mark IV]

Can someone point me to where I can read the A2000A translation of the script?

[pwhodges]

Here's a copy of the A2000A EoE subtitles.

Have you checked out the recent discussion here?