Why does Eva and its fanbase have such a bad...[reputation?]
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You beat me to what I was just about to post, ObsessiveMathsFreak, but I agree with you; we need to put this aside and get back on topic.
I don’t think the problems affecting the Eva fanbase can be found here and nowhere else. Whenever there is something people care deeply about (Eva or otherwise) friction is always going to arise and cause the fandom as a whole to look bad. Its just human nature that when enough people get together with differing opinions things are bound to turn ugly at some point. Singling the Eva fans out as the one place where this happens is both pointless and unfair.
I don’t think the problems affecting the Eva fanbase can be found here and nowhere else. Whenever there is something people care deeply about (Eva or otherwise) friction is always going to arise and cause the fandom as a whole to look bad. Its just human nature that when enough people get together with differing opinions things are bound to turn ugly at some point. Singling the Eva fans out as the one place where this happens is both pointless and unfair.
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"Happy people can be so cruel"- Claudia, Silent Hill 3
"everlasting, true love, I am yours"- Rule of Rose
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That seems very common in all Western storytelling too...Eva 02 wrote:It is very, very common in all forms of jap. storytelling to feature a disturbed anti-hero representing a "follower" be thrust into a situation in which he is presurred by all around him to perform, have inner conflict of apprehension of not being able to accept his reponsibilities, and in the end defying the odds and overcoming, transforming into a dominant male/leader/hero/celebrity.
It's called xenophobia, but this is incorrect; Not ALL humans hate what they don't understand. There are usually two different reactions to the unknown: fascination and fear. Fascination is what provokes humans to go out and fill in the gaps of their ignorance, to discover and invent and to understand. Scientists approach the unknown with wonder, fascination, and a desire to control and master it. Those who fear turn that fear to hate and anger. They "otherize" what's different and cook up all kinds of ways to treat it as something dangerous and otherwise undesirable.
This pretty much applies to all aspects of human life, from how we interact with each other to how we approach art. The general notion is that ignorance is a dangerous thing, but the desire to supplant ignorance with knowledge is infinitely better than the insistence on clinging to ignorance and forming one's basis of life around their negative reactions to it. Really, both reactions make sense in an evolutionary context. Anything that's different challenges our perception of truth, reality, and "the way things are". It's why Christians react so hostile to the theory of evolution. Truth, to many, is less important than the preservation of their beliefs. It's also very uncomfortable living in a state of doubt and uncertainty, which is bound to happen when people are willing to embrace the unknown. Plus, there's the whole element of "curiosity killed the cat", and there is a lot of truth to the idea that we risk a lot when we embrace what is unknown.
The problem is that when you insist on bragging about your IQ you're essentially giving people a license to pick your posts apart. As the great philosopher Kid Rock said, "It ain't cocky if you back it up", but consistent gaffs in spelling and grammar after bragging about your IQ isn't the way to do it. The thing is that modern technology has made the ability to spell well as you write almost unnecessary. Firefox and Microsoft Word have built in spellcheckers that alert you to mistakes, and it's pretty easy to right-click on a word and correct it. It's just silly not to use it.
Plus, one sign of IQ is the ability to correct for mistakes. So if you make spelling mistakes and are informed of it, someone with a high IQ should have an easy time remembering the correct way to spell something after learning the incorrect way. For someone to persist in frequent incorrect spelling isn't really the sign of someone with a high IQ.
I don't see why that's a bad thing... It's harder to appeal to the learned elite than the masses who are "satisfied with dumb shows"
This is another good point; it's not just the fact that NGE is popular, it's the fact that there are those who love it with the kind of passion that some attach to their religion or politics. Where there's that kind of passion there's also that kind of hate and backlash. Really, it's to be expected.
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
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I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
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Note the difference: I'm not referring to a coming-of-age tale or over-coming the odds, not even the under-dog-has-its-day or Odysseus-epic journey. Its specific to why people feel Shinji is too whiney, the same reason Simon the digger is also percieved as whiney about everything. Its a method used to convey apprehension, it just seems to be a case of 'we got the hint already, he doesnt believe in himself.' Part of storytelling is creating identifiable characters, so it may be hard for some to get past the ethnocentrism and realize the Japanese are a mass of awkward, insecure people who have taboos over broken families, who are more afraid of embarrassing others in public than spiders or snakes, and enjoy a story where they have to think for themselves**.
**My gf was kinda pissed after watching the series+EoE and I told her that she was, for the most part, gunna have to draw her own conclusions for what wasn't explained. Indeed another reason why some dislike Eva, as this method can be either endlessly intriguing, or a source of hatred for some. Its because its foreign, like ^ Yojimbo said, you can approach the new and unknown with fear and hostility, or you can embrace it and uncover all its secrets.
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Well, I can't think of any direct Western counterparts off hand, but I do know that the concept of the anti-hero isn't exactly new or exclusive to Japanese/Eastern art. Stories about losers pressured to succeed and eventually doing so and becoming a leader don't strike me as especially Eastern... I mean, doesn't Linda Hamilton kinda go through a similar arc in Terminator?
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
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^ Correct, but giving those aspects to the main protagonist can be a kiss-of-death, as it isnt western culture to identify to a scared and uncomfident person. Unless you want to go the Karate Kid route where they're a loser and then thanks to training becomes ultimate. Its the same thing you see in shonen series', i.e Bleach. The character is faced with a clearly impossible circumstance and comes out stronger only when on the brink of death. That is even yet, more universal.
My main point wasnt that it doesnt exist in Americana, I was leaning more toward emphasiing that the 'apprehension' and denial stage is exaggerated to appeal to the ideosyncratic insecurities specific to Japanese, as in contrast to arrogant American heroes - where Ichigo and Spike Spiegle seem to be models of. Americans have not been socialized to identify with emphasized cowardice in their stories, in the same way its been said that movies where everyone dies at the end can piss of a shitload of people but also make it unforgettable and essential to the other half.
Of course every kind of story has been done, hell it was all done even before Shakespear's time. I'm speaking form expiriences in being around the Japanese, hearing stories, reading translated folklore, watching Japanese silent&modern films etc... I mean specifically to explain why people can view it as being whiney and emotional, yet can also never give that impression to others - and not all eva fans are dramatic and cry babies as even the most insulting otaku can admit.
My main point wasnt that it doesnt exist in Americana, I was leaning more toward emphasiing that the 'apprehension' and denial stage is exaggerated to appeal to the ideosyncratic insecurities specific to Japanese, as in contrast to arrogant American heroes - where Ichigo and Spike Spiegle seem to be models of. Americans have not been socialized to identify with emphasized cowardice in their stories, in the same way its been said that movies where everyone dies at the end can piss of a shitload of people but also make it unforgettable and essential to the other half.
Of course every kind of story has been done, hell it was all done even before Shakespear's time. I'm speaking form expiriences in being around the Japanese, hearing stories, reading translated folklore, watching Japanese silent&modern films etc... I mean specifically to explain why people can view it as being whiney and emotional, yet can also never give that impression to others - and not all eva fans are dramatic and cry babies as even the most insulting otaku can admit.
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ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:This thread has either become a brilliant meta-demonstration in answer to the original poster, or else is a naked flaming troll fest that is in danger of being put down for the good of everyone. Can people please try to remember that this is supposed to be a discussion and not a spectacle?
Looks to me more like the normal stuff that happens on internet forums, rather than something particular to the Eva fandom. In fact, by comparison to most, the Eva fandom is quite civil. (I speak from experience. Oh the dark depths I have seen...) At worst it shows just how normal Eva fans really are!
(Wow, did I actually relate that back to the topic after all?)
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"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara
I think you’re either stretching or being overly limiting in terms of what selection of entertainment you’re looking at. Death of a Salesman and Catcher in the Rye are two incredibly well-known works of Western entertainment that feature cowardly whiners as protagonists, and both are taught at a high school level almost across the whole of the US. Artfaggotry in general loves its whiney protagonists; it’s definitely not just some ethnocentric Japanese thing.Eva 02 wrote: Americans have not been socialized to identify with emphasized cowardice in their stories
And it seems like you're acting as though Japan wasn’t the same country that gave us Guts and Kenshiro, as well as all those badass black & white samurai flicks. They’re just as capable as the West is in terms of producing ultra-confident macho characters.
I really think this exaggeration/emphasis on cowardice that you’re referring to is universal to most adolescent-teenage entertainment, since a great deal of adolescence through the teenage years is spent in a similar state of confusion and imbalance, particularly in today’s age. Death of a Salesman doesn’t really fit in here, but Catcher in the Rye certainly shares its targeted age demographic with the same people targeted for shonen/shoujo programming—heck, just about all of Salinger’s work is targeted for people in their early teenage years. You’ll see the same themes of trying to find one’s place amid society & the resulting pains of alienation amid almost all young adult fiction, and that’s probably why a lot of folks don’t “appreciate” Shinji’s whining in NGE; if they’re not the target audience, they’ll find his whining to be juvenile and immature. Tines has already commented on this point. The same people will find Holden Caufield’s angst to be juvenile and immature, and I don’t blame them—it IS juvenile and immature. That was the whole point to both Catcher in the Rye and NGE.
I dunno, maybe this was what you were trying to say, but trying to tie it down to being a Japan-centric thing is splitting hairs. The same themes pop up in very similar ways across Western entertainment as well.
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Ah, see you're putting words in my mouth, saying anti-heroes dont exist in the West. I also said that I'm not specifying Bildungsroman-style such is Catcher in the Rye, where the use of insecure traits makes the character imperfect (which is the way you're supposed to make your characters, anyone who writes fiction will tell you).
What I'm saying is our cultures are different on that note, where yes we do have such conflics, but (in general!!!!!) I've personally noticed that certain Eastern material can be more whiney. That's also an arbritary word not meant to put down the art, but to explain why some people can't get past it. My Texas Government professor loves all kinds of anime, but I have trouble convincing him to rer-watch the series in Japanese to get the real feel, he instead watched the annoyingly whiney dub and dislikes them always showing the characters freak oiut in their own minds complaining about every little thing. Another reason the english dub sucks, in order to more perfectly support my thesis', is because the then-ametuer team didn't know how to handle it correctly, because they werent used to it. (How do you explain cowboy bebop, which, AWL was a big part of, pretty much wins the award for best dub as it is slightly better than the Japanese version. [bad audio quality, even though Ed sounds better in jap])
OPf course this is not true for ALL forms of Eastern entertainment, I know! Thats why I started getting into Bleach and other shonen media, where the Protagonist mirrors the typical loud, arrogant and kinda naive hero who seems to stay out of trouble due to his friends slight guidance and his own brute strenght, for example. I'm merely stating that the reason NGE and some other anime's like TTGL can be dissmissed because they wine more than ppl are used to in American entertainment, along the lines of the "half fear, half explore" reaction slplit as Yojimbo mentioned.
What I'm saying is our cultures are different on that note, where yes we do have such conflics, but (in general!!!!!) I've personally noticed that certain Eastern material can be more whiney. That's also an arbritary word not meant to put down the art, but to explain why some people can't get past it. My Texas Government professor loves all kinds of anime, but I have trouble convincing him to rer-watch the series in Japanese to get the real feel, he instead watched the annoyingly whiney dub and dislikes them always showing the characters freak oiut in their own minds complaining about every little thing. Another reason the english dub sucks, in order to more perfectly support my thesis', is because the then-ametuer team didn't know how to handle it correctly, because they werent used to it. (How do you explain cowboy bebop, which, AWL was a big part of, pretty much wins the award for best dub as it is slightly better than the Japanese version. [bad audio quality, even though Ed sounds better in jap])
OPf course this is not true for ALL forms of Eastern entertainment, I know! Thats why I started getting into Bleach and other shonen media, where the Protagonist mirrors the typical loud, arrogant and kinda naive hero who seems to stay out of trouble due to his friends slight guidance and his own brute strenght, for example. I'm merely stating that the reason NGE and some other anime's like TTGL can be dissmissed because they wine more than ppl are used to in American entertainment, along the lines of the "half fear, half explore" reaction slplit as Yojimbo mentioned.
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While I don't think I have much else to add to this recent East/West discussion, I have often wondered if there wasn't some kind of existentialist shift in Japanese narrative art after WW2. It seemed that most Japanese pre-WW2 was fairly insular. Granted, I haven't seen/read much, but what little I have seems distinctly different to what was produced afterwards. Kurosawa's Post-WW2 films were almost Dostoevsky-like in their grand existentialist metaphors, and even Ozu seemed to be more concerned with the invading Western mentalities and the conflict with the traditions of the East. I think Japan's apprehensiveness concerning god-like technology, though, is much more potently felt. I've often wondered if that whole angst isn't what produced most of the primary fantasy genres (like mecha) in the first place. But NGE certainly seemed to be one of the first to draw a distinct parallel to the individual's existential plight and how it was intertwined with its technology.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
( Then I’m not sure what you’re even referring to. My point was that you’re trying to make an East/West cultural distinction that I don’t see as necessary. Especially since you’re apparently using NGE as an example of this, yet NGE is pretty reliant upon the Bildungsroman theme. I think it’s also important to note that anti-hero is a very broad term and encompasses many different character types, not just the angst-ridden “I can’t do this” type of character.Eva 02 wrote: Ah, see you're putting words in my mouth, saying anti-heroes dont exist in the West. I also said that I'm not specifying Bildungsroman-style such is Catcher in the Rye, where the use of insecure traits makes the character imperfect (which is the way you're supposed to make your characters, anyone who writes fiction will tell you).
As far as imperfect characters & fiction goes, well, that’s not entirely accurate. It all depends on the context and overall functioning dynamic of the story. Sometimes a seemingly “perfect” character is warranted and necessary to the story’s impact or purpose. But that’s off topic
I dunno what to tell you. East & West have the same capacity for whininess in their protagonists. I guess Japan might be more prone to throwing it into their standard anime entertainment (especially in post-NGE industry), but it’s not like we don’t have our fair share of wimps on TV or in movies. I’m tempted to say that in general we like to glitz our shit up a bit more, but even that I’m not so sure of when compared against modern animeEva 02 wrote: What I'm saying is our cultures are different on that note, where yes we do have such conflics, but (in general!!!!!) I've personally noticed that certain Eastern material can be more whiney.
I can agree that it’s in roughly the same vein as “half fear, half explore” for audiences, though. The same people who dislike Shinji’s whininess will assumedly dislike Holden Caulfield’s angst as well.
Amanda Winn-Lee wasn’t involved with the Cowboy Bebop dub.Eva 02 wrote: How do you explain cowboy bebop, which, AWL was a big part of, pretty much wins the award for best dub as it is slightly better than the Japanese version.
I'm pretty sure that's what resulted in both Astro Boy and Tetsujin 28/Gigantor, but don't quote me on that. I don't remember where I read it. Either way, it would be difficult to say that this thinking DIDN'T impact or result in the creation of those titles.Jimbo wrote:I've often wondered if that whole angst isn't what produced most of the primary fantasy genres (like mecha) in the first place.
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Weren't Bildungsromans all about a character changing from childhood to adulthood? NGE never really moves out of its adolescent state, so I'm not sure that's applicable on a literal level. It should be mentioned that NGE shares a lot of traits with the monomyth too, though it subverts/changes/ignores some aspects.
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
only if you ignore EoTV & EoE. "Adulthood" part of coming of age stories are usually pretty short parts that happen at the very end, and often after a pretty long-in-the-making narrative climax. Catcher in the Rye's denouement was its 'adulthood' stage, if you could call it that; his coming to terms with the world with some level of closure, acknowledging that there is worthwhile 'goodness' and purity in the world, enjoying the company of his little sister, etc. EoTV's penultimate "I'm allowed to exist, it's OK for me to be here, congratulations, etc" scene functions in the same way. One More Final calls this into question, but on thematic level, it calls it into question in a rather mature way that anyone can relate to. Plus there's that caress bit. As it stands, Catcher in the Rye has its own caveat; Holden's recounting the whole story from some hospital ward being visited by a psychoanalyst guy, but the novel is still considered part of the genre.Jimbo wrote:Weren't Bildungsromans all about a character changing from childhood to adulthood? NGE never really moves out of its adolescent state, so I'm not sure that's applicable on a literal level.
It's not Great Expectations, but come on. "Never really moves out of adolescent state" could be said for a great deal of works that are considered Bildungsromans. It depends on how you consider its climax/revelatory scenes to work.
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Fair enough. I became aware of the term long after I'd read a lot of works that fell under the label so I often have difficulty connecting the label to the works.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
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Merridian wrote:( Then I’m not sure what you’re even referring to. My point was that you’re trying to make an East/West cultural distinction that I don’t see as necessary. Especially since you’re apparently using NGE as an example of this, yet NGE is pretty reliant upon the Bildungsroman theme. I think it’s also important to note that anti-hero is a very broad term and encompasses many different character types, not just the angst-ridden “I can’t do this” type of character.
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As far as imperfect characters & fiction goes, well, that’s not entirely accurate. It all depends on the context and overall functioning dynamic of the story. Sometimes a seemingly “perfect” character is warranted and necessary to the story’s impact or purpose.
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Amanda Winn-Lee wasn’t involved with the Cowboy Bebop dub.
I'm having a hard time contributing more also, as not much more can solidify my argument. But just to seem like less of a douche and to earn some understanding to my point, I was/am referring to the main character - they cannot get on your nerves(to a general audience!!) to be successful in this market. Its been said many a time that Shin-chan does just this, and we've all also heard anime fans whom dislike Eva because of the (dub) Shinji. Generally the books and movies that are massivley popular in America, like Eva was in Japan, do not have the main character as emotionally unstable and whiney. Of course there are exceptions such as movies with Shay Le'Bouffe as the lead or horror movies where its normal to be that scared. In General, and IME, I notice that while enjoying some popular modern/dated Eastern entertainment that takes an allegory story path, I find myself thinking that the character could be less whiney to pull of the intended personality intended to be developed.
And YES you do want to make flawed characters! Just like you need round and flat, dynamic and static characters you also need perfect, flawed, and just plain criminal characters on both sides of the conflict. Seriously, anyone else know what I'm talking about? Its in like every literature book on writing/developing/analysis. Idk it tends to stick more with me, I practice fictional writing cuz on my back-burner I have an unrealistic dream to become director/writer/producer one day.
Also, Amanda Winn-Lee is on my Cowboy Bebop dvd right now talking about how she takes credit for the compliments given to the team at conventions. I know shes a douchebag like that but she certainly had her influence in the creation. Note she had the most say-so on the Eva movies, yet they were slightly( ) better than the series, which would be talking in somber tone when the character is agitated in the jap version of the same line!
@ Yojimbo: Yes there was a huge shift producing a post-war Japanese culture. I'm putting off my Government homework as it is to find the original article I read, but theres some interesting things on The History of Anime and also if you do a little reading on Superflatism.
I also agree that Bildungs. isnt the best genre to catagorize Eva, more like TTGL. The connection I see is that he goes from wanting to end all existance to realizing he can just change himself to appreciate others for the better not worse. This happens in the span of a year, as to where a large span must occur. The congruencies are that the main chara starts off weak, and it is essential that a significant change takes place. The only problem is that it is dually important for the character to go of his own volition. Shinji came at the request of his father under false pretenses, although Misato does question Shinji's assumptions and states that he had to know there was more to it. He also fought his responsibilities to the very end (making his confident scenes even more enjoyable). Generally society is the biggest antagonist, and the protagonist's problems understanding/accepting them. There are too many inequities to classify it as bildungs, mis-matched aspects can best be represented by another genre, but theres no real need to state what most have read in the archives.
**However, These are the attributes to a traditional Western style-bildungsroman. An eastern version may come with more whiney-ness and apprehension instead of being a overall weak character with the strength to change hidden deep within them.
Mikoroshi Tou Kara Zutto
- supershinjiasukashipper
- "doggy"
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Eva 02, I thank you for the defense back there. Hopefully one day they will understand that when you hit a certain level of intelligence, you just stop caring about trivial things. Sadly it works both ways too, up and down the scale, but when its up the scale it has to do with musings over efficiancy and relativity to the changes in history. Thats my reason there, and the fact that when you are as depressed as I am you just stop caring.
Interesting Quote:
ANTA just went full BAKA - Tines-sans reaction to my MS paint thread fail.
my fanfic.net account, enjoy my work, praise me! http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2164682/
Forgive my spelling errors, my keyboard acts quite weird weird.
ANTA just went full BAKA - Tines-sans reaction to my MS paint thread fail.
my fanfic.net account, enjoy my work, praise me! http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2164682/
Forgive my spelling errors, my keyboard acts quite weird weird.
- TehDonutKing
- Camel Dilettante
- Age: 28
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- Contact:
- supershinjiasukashipper
- "doggy"
- Age: 33
- Posts: 2279
- Joined: Oct 13, 2009
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Gender: Male
Thanks so much, I love internet hugs, they make me feel so much better.
Interesting Quote:
ANTA just went full BAKA - Tines-sans reaction to my MS paint thread fail.
my fanfic.net account, enjoy my work, praise me! http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2164682/
Forgive my spelling errors, my keyboard acts quite weird weird.
ANTA just went full BAKA - Tines-sans reaction to my MS paint thread fail.
my fanfic.net account, enjoy my work, praise me! http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2164682/
Forgive my spelling errors, my keyboard acts quite weird weird.
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