How did Kaworu become so popular?

[Bagheera]

post after post you whine about people misunderstanding kaworu or something and then giving vague explanations

I'd say that counts as ranting

I thought about this for a minute, then just shrugged and said "eh, it's Xard." Not much else to be said really.

[SenorSquiid]

Summer fling
Don't mean a thing
But oooh those Geofront nights!

[child of Lilith]

^

[Lament]

I thought about this for a minute, then just shrugged and said "eh, it's Xard." Not much else to be said really.

Well. Shinji and Kaworu's relationship is abiguous. So your theory isn't the only 'right' option. K/S relationship is the one of the most argued things in this fandom and propably going to stay that way.

And the people arguing about in favour of romantic K/S relationship aren't that far off taking drafts of Ep. 24 to accord and what type of character of Kaworu was designed to be before teh censorship of the tv station. And the Anno June interview... Maybe if we play nice we'll get it translated some time (but with Eva fandom, I doubt it). It could be enlightening really.

But anyway. Back to Kaworu. Or do we need another thread split?

[Sailor Star Dust]

And the people arguing about in favour of romantic K/S relationship aren't that far off taking drafts of Ep. 24 to accord and what type of character of Kaworu was designed to be before teh censorship of the tv station. And the Anno June interview... Maybe if we play nice we'll get it translated some time (but with Eva fandom, I doubt it). It could be enlightening really.

While there probably was censorship on the part of the TV station, both 24' drafts were before the Anno treatment in the Script Process: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=363606#363606 (As stated in different places, he pretty much controlled every aspect of the series, even with last minute changes of things.)

If Anno really wanted to include draft material from whichever draft into Director's Cut 24', he probably could have. Yet he didn't.

[Bagheera]

Two points:

First, I wasn't dismissing Xard's posts because he somehow disagreed with my arguments. I was dismissing them because he claimed I was being ambiguous and ranting, when neither is really true.

Second, SSD has the right of it. Anno wanted Kaworu to be just so, and that wasn't just to troll the fanbase (though that was undoubtedly part of it, as this is Anno we're talking about). Making Kaworu gay for Shinji (and vice versa) misses the point of the character. It's more complex than that.

[Lament]

While there probably was censorship on the part of the TV station, both 24' drafts were before the Anno treatment in the Script Process: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=363606#363606 (As stated in different places, he pretty much controlled every aspect of the series, even with last minute changes of things.)

Translation of the drats is only partly done which is a shame. I also know that the interview that I was talking about was published after the show and in it Anno discusses Kaworu's character, ep. 24 and K/S relationship (and the censorship). Might be teeny bit informative. That's why I hope it gets translated. When I first registered here, people always argued that Anno needs to confirm K/S as a romantic pairing or it's not. Anno gave that long interview to June plus he gave them the drafts which they published. He gave the interview after the show had ended so it kinda still has a point.

Edit: Here's a bit of the interview (there's a link to the translation). Sadly it's the only translated bit but it says a bit about the censorship.

But anyway. I need to get back to the topic.

[Hashmal]

it doesn't matter the amount of screentime he got. this was the person who gave Shinji the affection and compassion he so sincerely needed, then forced Shinji into a horrible, tragic, sadistic decision. making the audience care about him given so little time is the mark of a great character.

that and they're so damn cute together. not even a shipper.

[C.A.P.]

making the audience care about him given so little time is the mark of a great character.

...what?

[Hashmal]

...what?

making the audience care about him given so little time is the mark of a great character.

[Bagheera]

making the audience care about him given so little time is the mark of a great character.

No, it's the mark of a memorable character. Not quite the same thing.

[Xard]

not quite the same but in Kaworu's case I don't see reasonf or differentiating. Kaworu wasn't memorable for reasons like being completely out of place in the setting, badly written or anything like that.

I must admit that there's something genuinely mystifying and intriguing in Kaworu's character, in completely non-gay way. Being voiced by Akira Ishida goes a long way too.

[Sachi]

EPIC CLEAN-UP.

Last chance, this thread.

EDIT: Quality of Episode 24 tangent split here.

[C.A.P.]

Urgh, thank you.

So yeah, I'm still scratching my head on how a character who was the focus of one episode (and 1/8th of another, along with a movie) is enough to make a great character. Aren't you suppose to make a character out of a personality rather than let that personality charm the audience and leave it at that?

Yeah yeah, "NGE is good metafiction", "it's not following a structure", all that stuff. But I still want an answer on what makes a great character if you use a character like Kaworu for only one episode. Impact and charm just can't be enough for one measly character to get all of this discussion.

[Eva Yojimbo]

But I still want an answer on what makes a great character if you use a character like Kaworu for only one episode. Impact and charm just can't be enough for one measly character to get all of this discussion.

The thing is, impact and charm HAVE been enough to generate all of this discussion along with a lot more. That's the thing; I'm sure you could point to hundreds-of-thousands of characters who are more complex, more fleshed-out, better developed, etc. but that's not the same as saying that all of those impact an audience, leave them wanting more or provoke them to try and figure them out.

I mean, I don't know I'd call Kaworu a "great" character. What I think I'd call him is the best character of his kind ever crafted. He's not a great character in the same sense that Shinji or Asuka is, but he's a great character in some other sense.

[C.A.P.]

I mean, I don't know I'd call Kaworu a "great" character. What I think I'd call him is the best character of his kind ever crafted. He's not a great character in the same sense that Shinji or Asuka is, but he's a great character in some other sense.

Yeah, now that's more logical. Don't give me wrong, Kaworu's not a terrible character, but thinking about it, I'm starting to realize that I'm more fascinated by the impact he gave to the fanbase than the actual character itself. In fact, if you ever do explain why he's "the best character of his kind", that'll probably be more interesting and thought-provoking than figuring out the basic 101 of how to understand someone like Kaworu, because like you said, it's not like analyzing Shinji's or Asuka's character.

So with that in mind, how SHOULD we analyze Kaworu? Should we study the emotional feelings of Kaworu rather than try to analyze the character? Should we not analyze his motivations, but instead, ponder on the illusionary nature of him? Just what is that "other sense?"

[Eva Yojimbo]

It's not an uninteresting question you pose... what I find fascinating about Kaworu is that he seems to be the one character who has everything figured out amidst an episode where confusion reigns supreme. I think there's this sense that if we can figure out what Kaworu knows that we'll know all we need to know about what's really going on with the mythology, the characters, etc. But I also don't think he can be tackled in isolation because his primary importance is his relationship with Shinji and how he basically plays the role of the psychiatrist/emotional outlet for Shinji to latch onto like an emotional crutch. Then there's his (initially) mysterious connection with Rei, and his even more mysterious relationship with The Angels (why does he seemingly choose to sacrifice his race for humans?). Kaworu is just such a cipher that can be analyzed under so many different modes and would still reveal some illuminating aspects, but he's not so abstract that he doesn't have his own personality.

[1731298478]

Episode 24 seems to be the climax of Evangelion. If this is the case, then Kaworu's importance to the series as a whole is in disproportion to the amount of time he appears. Kaworu was planned from an early stage as the culmination of the series of angels: the angel which takes human form and comes closest to human beings. It's possible that the impact Kaworu has as an individual character is closely connected with the impact of Evangelion as a whole.

Kaworu represents the culmination of the "angels vs. humans" conflict. After the death of Kaworu, the conflict becomes "humans vs. humans." At first glance, the conflict between angels and humans seems to contain two major, overlapping motifs. The first is the idea of a conflict between man and god, or a "satanic" rebellion of man against god. The situation of mankind in Eva appears at first glance to be a kind of "end days" scenario, where human existence is being (justly?) brought to an end by "angels," servants of god. Mankind battles back with "Eva," a creature which is demonic in appearance and whose existence is predicated upon the ability of mankind to harness divine power with "promethean" science. The second is the intimation of a conflict between Japan and the West. The angels are called in Japanese "apostles," which seems to refer not only to the twelve apostles but to the idea of the proselytism of the Christian faith generally. The robots which battle the angels are not simply "demonic" in appearance but specifically "oni-like," "Japanese demons" created to protect the chief target of the angels, Japan.

The overall progression of the angels in the second half of the series is not only towards forms that attempt to make contact or synthesize with human beings but also away from "monstrous" forms and towards forms angels might traditionally take in the western imagination. The climactic "angel," Kaworu, is the most beautiful, the most "angelic", the most human - and so on. Because he bridges two worlds, it seems that he might be capable of understanding both sides of the conflict. In the event, Kaworu decides in favor of human beings against angels. This could be, to begin with, something like the acknowledgement of a god that the rebellion of his creation is justified. The difficulty is that we do not know why, or upon what criteria, Kaworu makes his decision; we can only speculate based on the circumstances. Shinji assents to Kaworu's decision, but he does not understand it. Misato's explanation does not satisfy Shinji and even seems to turn him against her. Shinji seems to deny that Kaworu decided correctly.

The entire situation is, I think, very complicated. Kaworu stands in a very important "place" in Eva. I think the mysterious nature of the character, and of the mysterious nature of the relationship between Kaworu and Shinji, is at the root of the appeal. But I don`t think that this "mystery" is only superficial. It's difficult to precisely describe. Kaworu is somehow an unsettling character.

[Dima]

I was looking the Top 30 1990's Male Characters of Newype and i couldn't help but notice that Kaworu is in number 2.Even if i dont take account the list he is one of the most popular characters in EVA despite appearing only in one episode.Personally i think that Kaworu is the most interesting character in EVA but maybe that's me because when i started watching NGE,1.0 and 2.0 were already out so i saw him more than one time.I dont think this have happened with other animes meaning after 20+ episodes and near the ending a new character appears for one episode and become so popular.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Kaworu's a bishounen and mysterious, I'd say that helps his popularity a lot.