That's a fair point; they seem to have taken issue with the translation itself, and never cared much about performances. That's not terribly surprising, as most of them probably don't speak English well enough to judge.
Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
That's a fair point; they seem to have taken issue with the translation itself, and never cared much about performances. That's not terribly surprising, as most of them probably don't speak English well enough to judge.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Alright, I now have this to ask. What is the fandoms general consensus towards NTE's dub? (Or more specifically, Jo and Ha's)
I'll admit, I've never seen neither NGE nor NTE dubbed, but after seeing the acclaim towards the NTE dubs, as well as the recent news of Q's Blu-Ray release, I was planning to watch all three dubbed together. However, this thread is beginning to give me second thoughts which I'm not finding to be very appealing of an experience. I just don't want the ordering of this Blu-Ray to be a fruitless effort
I'll admit, I've never seen neither NGE nor NTE dubbed, but after seeing the acclaim towards the NTE dubs, as well as the recent news of Q's Blu-Ray release, I was planning to watch all three dubbed together. However, this thread is beginning to give me second thoughts which I'm not finding to be very appealing of an experience. I just don't want the ordering of this Blu-Ray to be a fruitless effort
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""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
It really depends on how fussy you are. If you generally find dubs tolerable, and have no huge issues with Grant of Spencer, the dub is perfectly serviceable. If you dislike dubs or either of those VAs in particular you'll find the experience excruciating.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
I actually prefer the NTE dub's Rei to the original Rei, but I'm sure I'm in the minority there. 1.0 and 2.0 were really well done, in my opinion. Dub Mari swears quite a lot, though.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Oddly, that is that part of the NTE dub that I am the most okay with. "Just fucking die already!" is about as apropos as it gets.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
I really don't get all the dub haters. Never have. It comes across as elitist fun ruining.
Spike did an acceptable job. I do dislike Shinji, but it's based entirely on EoE and has nothing to do with his performance.
Spike did an acceptable job. I do dislike Shinji, but it's based entirely on EoE and has nothing to do with his performance.
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"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
NemZ: NGE dub hating =/= dub hating. Don't confuse the two.
I think we have been promised the Khara-endorsed subtitles, so that's something.
Not giving Mari a British accent was a hell of a missed opportunity. I keep thinking about how great it would be if, during the part where she's calling in after landing, Shinji can't understand her because she says everything in Cockney rhyming slang ("English English").
I think we have been promised the Khara-endorsed subtitles, so that's something.
Not giving Mari a British accent was a hell of a missed opportunity. I keep thinking about how great it would be if, during the part where she's calling in after landing, Shinji can't understand her because she says everything in Cockney rhyming slang ("English English").
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Reichu wrote:Not giving Mari a British accent was a hell of a missed opportunity. I keep thinking about how great it would be if, during the part where she's calling in after landing, Shinji can't understand her because she says everything in Cockney rhyming slang ("English English").
I honestly couldn't imagine her with a British accent.(Just imaging Seras from Hellsing Ultimate )
Also this argument got blown out of proportion.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Deliberately breaking consistency with the existing film dubs would also be a valid cause for complaint.
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Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
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Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
I wish they'd replaced Spencer and Grant TBH, though Grant's performance in 2.0 was way better than in NGE.
I think a main reason why so many people hate Shinji and refuse to open their hearts to the best girl instead preferring a creepy doll is that they're both so shrill.
Localization is not translation. Asuka's loudness should be toned down for the American market to make her less of a "loud foreigner (but not too foreign, she's still half Japanese somehow) in an anime" type person.
I think a main reason why so many people hate Shinji and refuse to open their hearts to the best girl instead preferring a creepy doll is that they're both so shrill.
Localization is not translation. Asuka's loudness should be toned down for the American market to make her less of a "loud foreigner (but not too foreign, she's still half Japanese somehow) in an anime" type person.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Don't follow.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Changing a VA between films (as opposed to between series and films) would be a bad move. I thought you were suggesting changing Mari's VA, which on reflection, you weren't, actually. Sorry, just talking nonsense again.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
(in response to the titular question)
I'd say "yes," but given how much I enjoyed his performance in the movies, I wouldn't even place the blame on Spike as a person. I'd place the blame on his performance in the show, and for that I'd blame.. external factors.
Why do you say that?
I'd say "yes," but given how much I enjoyed his performance in the movies, I wouldn't even place the blame on Spike as a person. I'd place the blame on his performance in the show, and for that I'd blame.. external factors.
Why do you say that?
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
This post from Answerman is pretty timely on the subject of voice acting. It turns out English and Japanese VAs both suck! http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-02-26/.99020
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-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
BrikHaus wrote:This post from Answerman is pretty timely on the subject of voice acting. It turns out English and Japanese VAs both suck! http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-02-26/.99020
I think there's a lot more to what he's saying there than that, honestly. That was a good read.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Animu voice acting sounds like animu voice acting in any language. This ain't news, especially if you've ever heard an actual Japanese person talk. I can count a very small number of anime where the Japanese voice actors are going for anything resembling realism as opposed to cartoon-style delivery, and Eva's not among them. (Nor should it be, seeing as the whole thing is basically a po-mo pastiche of Anno's beloved 70s Saturday morning robot sagas anyway.)
Spencer as Shinji (along with Allison Keith as Misato and AWL as Rei) has always been one of the main reasons I like the dub in the first place, but even outside of my own perspective: of all the people I know who like or hate Shinji, I've seen little correlation between those who watched the series subbed or dubbed. I think it really has more to do with one's own perspective and temperament. (I'm not an expert, but I gather the perception of Shinji being less polarizing in Japan may be at least somewhat exaggerated as well, seeing as how nearly all spinoffs and doujins seem to "fix" his personality to some degree, making him less passive and neurotic.) It's good that he's a polarizing character; he should be.
On a vaguely-related topic, it's always surprised me that Spencer doesn't get more work in American cartoons - his ability to throw his voice around, mug out Jim Carrey-style and/or convincingly portray a pubescent boy would all seem like ideal qualifications for Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon-style programming. I suspect he might just have a crappy agent.
Spencer as Shinji (along with Allison Keith as Misato and AWL as Rei) has always been one of the main reasons I like the dub in the first place, but even outside of my own perspective: of all the people I know who like or hate Shinji, I've seen little correlation between those who watched the series subbed or dubbed. I think it really has more to do with one's own perspective and temperament. (I'm not an expert, but I gather the perception of Shinji being less polarizing in Japan may be at least somewhat exaggerated as well, seeing as how nearly all spinoffs and doujins seem to "fix" his personality to some degree, making him less passive and neurotic.) It's good that he's a polarizing character; he should be.
On a vaguely-related topic, it's always surprised me that Spencer doesn't get more work in American cartoons - his ability to throw his voice around, mug out Jim Carrey-style and/or convincingly portray a pubescent boy would all seem like ideal qualifications for Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon-style programming. I suspect he might just have a crappy agent.
Last edited by gatotsu911 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Um, why? What's so wrong with something that could be loved by all? (or most, since this is humanity we're talking about)
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""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Nothing inherently, but not everything can or should be that. Shinji is a highly individual and flawed character; the qualities which make him unique and interesting are the qualities which confront and (therefore) polarize audiences.
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased
"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence
Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way
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Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
BrikHaus wrote:This post from Answerman is pretty timely on the subject of voice acting. It turns out English and Japanese VAs both suck! http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2016-02-26/.99020
I find a lot of what he says to be true. I can see the "voice inside my head" reading the subtitles dictating how I thing they're delivered by the Japanese voice actor. Often times I'm conscious that, because Japanese grammar and senate structure is so different, whatever word that's emphasized by the actors isn't the one I think it was in the subtitles. The emphasized word would have ti be italicized, bold-faced, or in all-caps in order for me to know, and sometimes that just makes it should off when it doesn't match with where the actor emphasized part of his/her dialogue.
That being said, the first time I watch Eva Q was on the Japanese Blu-ray with no English subs or dubs and I still felt that the Japanese voice acting was great. I also watched some of the NGE episodes on the Japanese Blu-ray, which lacks any English translations, and I still feel as though the acting was really good in many places. (The only places I can think to complain about is Kotono Mitsubishi as Misato sounding too much like a sports announcer when she explains the initial attack plan in the beginning of Episode 9, and Yuriko Yamaguchi as Ritsuko crying at the end of Episode 23 sounding a little fake. But even then both will give give an outstanding performance in other parts of the show, more than making up for all of that.)
However, looking back at some of the other anime I've watched, I can't honestly say that I can watch them untranslated and still enjoy the Japanese voice acting. Angel Beats comes to mind and something there the acting would sound unnatural in many places where it shouldn't (though I do get the stylistic, over-the-top tone the voice acting matches in a lot of other scenes too), and some of the acting in the Attack on Titan anime still gets on my nerves. Heck, even Anno's earliest GunBuster OVA sounds way too typically saccharine towards the beginning for it's own good.
There is something to be said about a performance feeling "unnatural" still being "appropriate," though. If the background behind the character becomes magical and sparkly, and the sound begins to reverb with a little glistening sound effect kicking it off, and the character is floating onscreen because he/she is so happy, then I expect the voice-acting to be silly and over-the-top in that moment. Anything else would just be off-putting.
gatotsu911 wrote:Animu voice acting sounds like animu voice acting in any language. This ain't news, especially if you've ever heard an actual Japanese person talk. I can count a very small number of anime where the Japanese voice actors are going for anything resembling realism as opposed to cartoon-style delivery, and Eva's not among them. (Nor should it be, seeing as the whole thing is basically a po-mo pastiche of Anno's beloved 70s Saturday morning robot sagas anyway.)
In the first half of NGE, I agree with you. Those last 8 or so episodes, on the other hand, feature some of the more natural sounding and authentic performances I've heard from anime in a while. (Misato trying to comfort Shinji after Rei dies in Episode 23 strikes me as particularly authentic.)
Re: Is Spike Spencer the main cause of Shinji hatred overseas?
Good thing i don't know Japanese then. I already hate (most of) the english voice acting in animes, if i hated the Japanese ones too i would stop watching anime.
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