Weird observation about Asuka's many traumas

[Bagheera]

It probably doesn't mean anything, but something occurred to me just recently:

-- Asuka gets mindraped by Arael, and Shinji's father stops him from intervening.

-- Asuka gets dismembered by the MPEs and Shinji's mother stops him fron intervening.

-- Asuka gets choked out by Shinji (in real life, mind) and Shinji finally intervenes, making his own choice with no one else to get in the way.

Like I said, probably nothing. But it's still a neat little detail IMO.

[Redaye]

It probably doesn't mean anything, but something occurred to me just recently:

-- Asuka gets mindraped by Arael, and Shinji's father stops him from intervening.

-- Asuka gets dismembered by the MPEs and Shinji's mother stops him fron intervening.

-- Asuka gets choked out by Shinji (in real life, mind) and Shinji finally intervenes, making his own choice with no one else to get in the way.

Like I said, probably nothing. But it's still a neat little detail IMO.

IMHO: Gendo's wife was at stake, Misato was too busy saving Shinji's butt to let him get there in time and Asuka stroked his face like his mom had done (if your ref is to EoE).

[EVAJedi]

So what you are saying is Shinji's family always stopped him from saving her from her suffering, but when pitted with making her suffer as well, he eventually overcomes his family's sins against Asuka and intervenes on her behalf?

I would say that you have a point.

[Dream]

-- Asuka gets choked out by Shinji (in real life, mind) and Shinji finally intervenes, making his own choice with no one else to get in the way

With "intervenes" you mean that he saves Asuka from his own hands, right? (For some reason i'm assuming you refer to One More Final)

I have the feeling that Anno intended that, and hoped that it would get noticed. It makes for a nice contrast between Shinji and his family, as well as some, uh, vision? of character development on both his and Asuka's part. I do wonder too, if the situations and other factors related to it have something to do (Thematically) with the parent who is preventing Shinji from helping.

For whatever reason this makes me think of a comment in Fight Club about how you have to eventually reject the value system of your parents (And others) In order to attain happiness or enlightement, or to attain yourself.

[EVAJedi]

With "intervenes" you mean that he saves Asuka from his own hands, right? (For some reason i'm assuming you refer to One More Final)

I have the feeling that Anno intended that, and hoped that it would get noticed. It makes for a nice contrast between Shinji and his family, as well as some, uh, vision? of character development on both his and Asuka's part. I do wonder too, if the situations and other factors related to it have something to do (Thematically) with the parent who is preventing Shinji from helping.

For whatever reason this makes me think of a comment in Fight Club about how you have to eventually reject the value system of your parents (And others) In order to attain happiness or enlightement, or to attain yourself.

Good point dream about "rejecting value system of your parents" - we have to remember that Shinji is in this mess because of his parents - (I mean we know that Seele would have probably found a way to do this without Shinji's mother) but the fact that Shinji is living with his teacher and had a disgraced upbringing is because of his parents actions.

The fact that he has to keep listening to his father throughout the series, which he hates and eventually seeks to disobey him,...and the fact that he says goodbye to his mother shows how he has taken that step away from his parents and will make his own decisions.

In other words, stop choking Asuka :)

[bobbyfischer's ghost]

Yet another reason to hate Gendo, Shinji's late like always poor Asuka.

[Korgan]

-- Asuka gets dismembered by the MPEs and Shinji's mother stops him fron intervening.

Misato was too busy saving Shinji's butt to let him get there in time

Um... presumably, Yui/Unit 01 was aware of what's going after absorbing the S2 Organ and could've broken out of its cage and the bakelite in it, but decided not to? That's what I thought, anyway. Sure, Shinji thought that there was no way to launch the Eva at that point, but he probably hadn't quite understood that 01 was literally his mother until the Instrumentality itself.

[EVAJedi]

So in other words it was all apart of the plan, but unfortunately these children had to continue to suffer - as poor Asuka...literally experiencing the pain of being eaten alive...

[Kendrix]

I don't think anything but the first instance can be classified as someone "intervening", Yui probably had only a limited idea of what was going on outside (She could probably tell when "the time was right", but not every detail like who is fighting whom...), if anything stopped Shinji from saving Asuka's butt, it's the JSSDF guys and their bakelite.

The third incident can't really be called an intervention either, Shinji only stopps when she makes him stop by appealing to the better parts of him by touching his cheek.

Don't really see a repetitive motif there, nor any visual cues (similar camera angles, recycled footage...) that would suggest one, the only common denominator in the first two instances being that Shinji finds himself in a position where the people he cares about suffer and he can't do a thing about it (or so he thinks) which is by no means exclusive to Asuka's misfortunes - The Bardiel incident and Misato bawling her eyes out come to mind.


And as for Gendo stopping Shinji from saving Asuka... the harsh truth is that he was right. Letting an already psychologically unstable teenager who has a history of threatening to blow up the base near a psycho probe thing? Bad idea, especially since they couldn't exactly pull the cable out anymore.
Remember that Asuka was pretty much shooting anything in sight after Arael first got her.

[Fireand'chutes77]

...If anything stopped Shinji from saving Asuka's butt, it's the JSSDF guys and their bakelite.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought Unit 01 was frozen in place by NERV's own Bakelite deployment, which just adds to the whole bitter irony of that scene.

[Stryker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought Unit 01 was frozen in place by NERV's own Bakelite deployment, which just adds to the whole bitter irony of that scene.

Correct. In fact, I don't remember the JSSDF guys deploying any bakelite. I believe it was Misato that ordered the Bakelite deployment to slow the JSSDF's advance into the NERV building.

[Bagheera]

I don't think anything but the first instance can be classified as someone "intervening", Yui probably had only a limited idea of what was going on outside (She could probably tell when "the time was right", but not every detail like who is fighting whom...), if anything stopped Shinji from saving Asuka's butt, it's the JSSDF guys and their bakelite.

The first instance was Gendo.

But anyway, it was NERV's bakelite, and as we saw Yui could break out of it at her leisure. The fact she didn't until Asuka was dead means there's really no one else to blame there -- no one else had the power to do anything.

The third incident can't really be called an intervention either, Shinji only stopps when she makes him stop by appealing to the better parts of him by touching his cheek.

No, that means he stops. She didn't make him do anything -- she asked him to stop, and he chose to do as she asked. The only one who could make that decision was him, so he gets the blame (or, as the case may be, the credit).

Don't really see a repetitive motif there,

I explained the pattern in the OP. If you don't find it relevant you don't, but it's not like I'm making shit up here.

And as for Gendo stopping Shinji from saving Asuka... the harsh truth is that he was right.

No he wasn't. Letting some alien have access to one of the most potent weapons ever created is stupid. Letting someone drag said weapon out of the line of fire isn't. There were any number of options he could have used to address matters (including the one he ultimately used), but the sad fact is he considered Asuka utterly expendable. His general attitude toward the pilots and their role was abominable, and about as far from "right" as you can get.

But it's irrelevant anyway, since his reasons don't change the pattern I described.

[Warren Peace]

Gendo was right. Letting Shinji out would have only resulted in two pilots being contaminated. What could Shinji do? Push Asuka out of the light (without coming into it himself), pick up the gun, activate his visor, allow the targeting system to set up a shot, and hope Arael is too slow/stupid to do anything about it? The lance was the only feasible option.

[Na7e]

Gendo was right. Letting Shinji out would have only resulted in two pilots being contaminated.

That doesnt stop him from sending Shinji out in the very next episode, to save Rei who is more relevant to his plans.

[Reichu]

That doesnt stop him from sending Shinji out in the very next episode, to save Rei who is more relevant to his plans.

Arguably, it's the amalgam of the defeated Angels emerging from Eva-00's body that prompts Eva-01's deployment, not the threat to Rei.

Far as Yui's inaction goes, I'd guess that she knew Eva-02 had to die one way or another: to remove the obstacle to her plans, to free the soul within for HIP, etc. With that in mind, the only logical course would be to first see how the battle above resulted on its own.

[Kendrix]

It was the JSSDF Guys.
Remember the scene right after Misato picks up Shinji and then tries eavesdropping on the enemy's communications? She picks up something like "the purple one has been secured, there was no problem injecting the bakelite".

Arguably, it's the amalgam of the defeated Angels emerging from Eva-00's body that prompts Eva-01's deployment, not the threat to Rei.

^This. Also, keep in mind that the situation just wasn't the same, namely, in episode 22, they still had another EVA in store who did NOT have an unpredictable pilot or an S2Engine, namely, EVA 00.
And why risk the volatile EVA with the volatile Pilot if you still have obedient little Rei?

Gendo follows exactly the same alghorithm in episode 23: He didn't want to risk the EVA with the S2 if he could help it, so he sent out EVA 02 first... but since Asuka was no longer able to pilot it, EVA 01 was the last remaining option. They couldn't have sent anyone but Shinji.

[Reichu]

we don't know enough about just how much she could tell about what was going on above to pin the blame on her.

Even before she has the S2 Engine, she seems keenly aware of her surroundings: cf. her ability to block the falling lights. [Gendo also seems to rely on this assumption: he personally goes to her cage during the Zeruel attack (to continue efforts to get her to accept the dummy system... as if his presence will make a difference?), and he speaks to her directly in #24.]

In any case, Yui frees herself from the bakelite no sooner than, and promptly after, Maya's announcement that the Soryus are dead. A connection is heavily implied.

@The OP, I think the "pattern" is a bit forced and it doesn't seem particularly relevant or meaningful to me. Let's look at this again:

A) Gendo and Yui prevent Shinji from providing aid; Asuka gets hurt (or more hurt) through forced inaction.
B) Shinji assaults Asuka (...for the second time, or third if shaking her around on her hospital bed counts), her gesture induces an emotional breakdown, and he stops.

If Gendo and Yui had personally abused Asuka, and Shinji started to "inherit" this behavior but overcame it, then you might have something. As is, however, Gendo and Yui only provide impersonal obstructions to aid and do not harm Asuka directly. The one who hurts Asuka in an intense and personal way is Shinji. That's his burden, not his parents'.

I also think you give him too much credit for stopping his assault in the final scene. I mean, thank goodness he did, but I don't think he did for the "right reasons". The caress harkens straight back to Yui's from the previous scene; Asuka's got him crying for mommy.

Overall, a more fruitful analysis would be gained by looking at the bigger picture, i.e., what's this really all about? On a most basic level, we're dealing with Shinji discovering, through Eva, his strongly intertwined capability to both help others and to hurt them, a far cry from his prior life of quiet and non-notability. All else -- e.g., also learning that he is sometimes helpless to help and that inaction can hurt as much as action; and, for that matter, discovering his capacity for violence -- flows from there.

[Bagheera]

Thanks for adding some perspective to the matter, Reichu. I do think there's something to be said for growing up, attending to matters of one's own volition without the interference of authority figures, etc, but I agree that that doesn't necessarily flow from the examples presented. It would probably be fair to say that the "pattern", such as it is, is more one of happenstance than design.

Ah well. I did say it was probably nothing.

[Reichu]

I do think there's something to be said for growing up, attending to matters of one's own volition without the interference of authority figures, etc, but I agree that that doesn't necessarily flow from the examples presented.

Very good, then. I must admit curiosity as to how your thought process took you here in the first place, though. I'm also a bit vague on what you're referring to with "growing up" and "attending to matters (...) authority figures".

[Bagheera]

Very good, then. I must admit curiosity as to how your thought process took you here in the first place, though.

Just a random observation, really. When you have Asuka on the mind these are the events that stick out, and when you're thinking about how they'll interact post-3I the issue of blame (or lack thereof) naturally comes up. From there noting the roles of the parents just amounted to a moment of fridge logic, in a "that's an odd coincidence, wonder if there's anything to it?" sort of way.

I'm also a bit vague on what you're referring to with "growing up" and "attending to matters (...) authority figures".

Nothing in particular. Mainly just the whole agency thing, asserting control over one's own life, making decisions and dealing with the consequences, etc.