Why do people like Asuka?

[Chroma]

I don't think we've ever seen any evidence she does it for kicks. Indeed, this is why I don't consider her all that bitchy to begin with.

Perhaps not, but then what does she gain from bullying the two? Confidence? Excitement? Some sort of pleasure? Is it for feeling in control or something? Personally, I consider her extremely bitchy.

[Bagheera]

Perhaps not, but then what does she gain from bullying the two? Confidence? Excitement? Some sort of pleasure? Is it for feeling in control or something? Personally, I consider her extremely bitchy.

She's not doing it to gain anything. She's doing it because they frustrate the hell out of her and she's lashing out. Girl's in pain, dude.

[Chroma]

She's not doing it to gain anything. She's doing it because they frustrate the hell out of her and she's lashing out. Girl's in pain, dude.

...Which is still wrong. I don't go around slapping people who frustrate me.

I do, however, understand that she's in pain. She went through a lot in the past and goes through a lot during the course of the series. But that just doesn't cut it as an excuse for me.

[Bagheera]

I do, however, understand that she's in pain. She went through a lot in the past and goes through a lot during the course of the series. But that just doesn't cut it as an excuse for me.

See, this is what I don't get. Asuka's a child. She's 13 years old. Most cultures in the world do not treat children as adults, and likewise do not judge them as such. So why is excusing Asuka's behavior even a consideration? Why is it a thing someone would even try to do? Why does she even need an excuse to begin with? The rush to judgement baffles me.

Me, I treat Asuka the same way I would a wounded lion. I don't judge it for being dangerous and cranky, I simply note that, hey, it's a wounded lion, I bet it's dangerous. Deal with the wounds and it will likely be a lot more pleasant. If we do that to Asuka and give her a few years and she's still exhibiting bad behavior, then fine, judgement might be appropriate. Until then? C'mon. We give juveniles the benefit of the doubt in murder trials, ffs. I think we can do the same for a cranky 13-year-old whose only sin is being cranky.

[Infinite Freedom Machine]

I have never understood people who call Asuka a bitch. She is clearly the most emotionally and intellectually damaged character in the entire series, and it's actually quite heart-wrenching to simply listen to her dialogue once the true nature of her motivation becomes clearer. I like Asuka because she invites pity while simultaneously fighting ferociously against it, and ultimately by EoE, proving she doesn't need it.

[Chroma]

See, this is what I don't get. Asuka's a child. She's 13 years old. Most cultures in the world do not treat children as adults, and likewise do not judge them as such. So why is excusing Asuka's behavior even a consideration? Why is it a thing someone would even try to do? Why does she even need an excuse to begin with? The rush to judgement baffles me.

Because the other Children are nothing like that. None of them are anything like her. The closest might be Toji for the simple fact that he hit Shinji, but later he apologized and knew it was wrong. And I'm not judging her like an adult - I'm judging her on the basis of being an okay human being. Everyone in the series is messed up in their own little way, but they don't act like her.

Me, I treat Asuka the same way I would a wounded lion. I don't judge it for being dangerous and cranky, I simply note that, hey, it's a wounded lion, I bet it's dangerous. Deal with the wounds and it will likely be a lot more pleasant. If we do that to Asuka and give her a few years and she's still exhibiting bad behavior, then fine, judgement might be appropriate. Until then? C'mon. We give juveniles the benefit of the doubt in murder trials, ffs. I think we can do the same for a cranky 13-year-old whose only sin is being cranky.

I'd say she's a little more than cranky. Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard on her, but to completely write off her abuse isn't right. She's one of th meanest characters in the entire show. [/i]

[Dream]

Because the other Children are nothing like that. None of them are anything like her. The closest might be Toji for the simple fact that he hit Shinji, but later he apologized and knew it was wrong. And I'm not judging her like an adult - I'm judging her on the basis of being an okay human being. Everyone in the series is messed up in their own little way, but they don't act like her.

So you're judging her on the fact the others aren't as fucked up as her? No offense, but i don't think that makes sense. And there are many who can argue that Asuka's past and her share of tragedies in the series is by far the worst of all the characters. Shinji did far worse stuff without having such a shitty past, and with the support of pretty much everyone. Asuka had no such thing, and while she certainly isn't pleasant, she didn't desire for everyone to die nor did anything even remotely close to that.

Actually, i think Asuka is pretty much the only person in the series who had absolutely no support from anyone, occasionally even getting fucked over by the people who are supposed to be taking care of her (Misato comes to mind for some reason) frankly, seeing it that way, her being an abrasive dick is surprisingly mild (And as much as her attitude hurts others, it will always hurt her more, so there's that too)

I'd say she's a little more than cranky. Perhaps we shouldn't be so hard on her, but to completely write off her abuse isn't right. She's one of th meanest characters in the entire show.

It is true that we shouldn't overlook her abrasive (I don't see it as abusive) behavior, her attitude isn't right at all. But i wouldn't call her a "bitch" either, like some people have. And Asuka might come off as the meanest character in the series, i had that view for a long time, but when i started understanding her more, she simply wasn't mean anymore. And i don't think she's as bad as the old men that want to destroy all of humanity for their bullshit religion, or the one who does that to be with his wife.

There are many, many worse characters in NGE. I think it's just that Asuka's flaws come off as the most noticeable ones.

[Bagheera]

Edit: Ninja'd by Dream! Nicely said.

[Brainman]

^
The thing that I have maintained is that Asuka's worst offense is that she's mouthy. Throughout the show, she never once commits a deliberately malicious action against another character. She berates others verbally, but that's not the same thing as actively trying to cause another person harm (the guy she ditched at the carnival might feel differently, but them's the breaks).

To contrast, Ritsuko destroys the Rei Tank in order to spite Gendo. Not because she thought it was right, but rather to harm the man who scorned her. And she made sure that Shinji saw it. She didn't care how it would make him feel. Or maybe she was counting on it. Now I think that's more worthy of the bitch label than being an occasionally bossy loudmouth.

[Bagheera]

Yeah, Ritsuko's practically the definition of the term. Cast iron and everything.

Sorry Tines.

[Tankred]

Cast iron and everything.

Cast iron is quite brittle.

[Brainman]

Not that I don't like Ritsuko either. She's pretty cool, but a more venomous character than Asuka.

[KingXanaduu]

Yeah, Ritsuko's practically the definition of the term. Cast iron and everything.

Sorry Tines.

Exactly! If you want a "Bitchy" character, Ritsuko fits the bill to a tee. Asuka may have said hurtful things, but never truly out of spite, just annoyance and frustration. Though, coming from Shinji's point of view, it's hard for him to tell the difference.

You want words to describe Asuka? Try "lost", "confused" and "in pain".

[Der Kommissar]

Asuka gets one really stunning hit in during EoE, though, when Shinji's begging for help/comfort and she rebuffs him.

Whether she was justified or not in doing so? Your milage may vary.

[Bagheera]

Asuka gets one really stunning hit in during EoE, though, when Shinji's begging for help/comfort and she rebuffs him.

Whether she was justified or not in doing so? Your milage may vary.

Yeah, that's the one instance that qualifies her for the title. But as I said, circumstances: most of us would be cranky after being lanced and shit.

[KingXanaduu]

Yeah, that's the one instance that qualifies her for the title. But as I said, circumstances: most of us would be cranky after being lanced and shit.

I admit, that is the one instance where the "bitchy" title does fit.

Saying "go to hell" to the one person who has control over Third Impact and the fate of mankind, just because he couldn't help her ENOUGH and made some mistakes (yes, big ones, but that's not the point). Way to break him Asuka.

Still, it's ambiguous if that was the real Asuka, and not a fabrication of Asuka from Shinji's point of view, considering the mindfuck of per-instrumentality.

[Bagheera]

I admit, that is the one instance where the "bitchy" title does fit.

Saying "go to hell" to the one person who has control over Third Impact and the fate of mankind, just because he couldn't help her ENOUGH and made some mistakes (yes, big ones, but that's not the point). Way to break him Asuka.

Still, it's ambiguous if that was the real Asuka, and not a fabrication of Asuka from Shinji's point of view, considering the mindfuck of per-instrumentality.

Nah, that was her. The two were witnessing Misato's memories earlier, and the kitchen scene lacks all meaning if it isn't really them. Also, if Gendo's claims in 25 are to be taken seriously . . .

[KingXanaduu]

Nah, that was her. The two were witnessing Misato's memories earlier, and the kitchen scene lacks all meaning if it isn't really them. Also, if Gendo's claims in 25 are to be taken seriously . . .

Well then, I still then stand by my previous statement. Props to you Asuka, bet you didn't see that one coming.

[TheSophist]

I suppose her redeeming qualities are that

she works very hard (e.g. shes alread a graduate)

she does care about other people (or wants to be accepted), she doesn't show this and acts all superior as a defense mechanism from her past experience


Shes helping out trying to save the world. Admittedly for selfish reasons

[lilim]

Asuka is one of my very favourite characters overall, and in fact i never realized how much i loved her until i rewatched the series and EoE this past week with my best friend. she dislikes how annoying and loud she is, although she does think she's a good character, and i found myself feeling defensive, because i look past her "bitchiness". when she acts out against Shinji, Rei and Misato i tend to feel bad for her. she attacks Shinji and Rei because of her insecurities as a pilot and her need to be the best; even though she's so amazingly talented and smart they excel in areas she can't (until EoE) and receive what she considers special treatment. with Misato, it almost reminds me of an electra complex. granted, Misato and Kaji are not her parents, but being higher ups in NERV and acting as guardians, (even if, in Kaji's case, he doesn't live with them, he still gives Shinji advice and acts almost fatherly. he seems in the flashbacks to speak to Asuka in the same way) not to mention the fact that they themselves appear to have an old-married-couple kind of relationship, they could fill the same roles in this case. at least to me, because she openly becomes disgusted and angry anytime Misato has contact with him, is insanely jealous of their connection, and makes advances with Kaji more than once. from what i can tell, he probably wanted to simply be as comforting to the children as he could, but she attached herself to him in a way that went beyond that and became incensed when he refused to look at her like a woman.
she attacks Shinji and Rei like a middle child would. big sister is the special one, everyone loves her, she's so perfect. little brother is the baby, everyone is kind to him and he's so weak. mom gets dad's body and love and i can't have him because i'm not mature enough and no one will look at me. so she attacks the characters of the people around her for having the things she can't have, and probably feels inferior for even wanting them in the first place, leaving her furious and broken inside.
i love Asuka and when she does bully the other characters, i feel embarrassed for her. like watching someone screw up and feel so ashamed that they lash out at other people. it's mean and uncalled for but they do it because they can't stand to deal with the fact that the problem could be them.
besides, i think she does have good qualities. she isn't always acting like a completely rotten human being. just most of the time..
i think post EoE Asuka would be able to recover and probably be a much more stable, and much nicer person than the girl we saw up to that point. i also think it's important to remember the age of these kids and take into account the immaturity factor, not just the trauma they've experienced, which in itself is immense and unimaginable.

(sorry if i said anything that'd already been said-- i don't have time right now to read this whole thread and i haven't been back to this forum in months! forgive me!)