Star Wars

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Re: Star Wars

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:50 am

After thinking it over, I don't hate the film. I just felt that the last half was a little derivative for my taste. That first half is some really solid stuff, though., and I would really be foolish to hate the film simply because Disney felt the need to prove it was classic Star Wars.

I just hope these Episodes break more and more ground as the narrative advances.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:20 am

Saw it tonight. Loved the first half, completely hated the 2nd half to the point of basically ruining the film for me.

SPOILER: Show
The good:

    Good characters. Poe, Finn, Rey, Han, New R2, Chewie. All were great fun. I could watch an entire buddy cop movie about Finn and Poe.

    Ren (before the final battle) was great, loved his tantrums, loved the idea of an violent, unstable, rage machine. He was menacing while also pathetic, it was a nice direction for the primary villain. The concept of having a villain who needs to train because he is raw is also a good direction to take it in. Ren's lightsaber is a nice design, not the side bits I still think those are dumb but I like that it's all malfunctioning like he tried to build a lightsaber and screwed up. Really ties into his character which I'll also use as an excuse for the stupid side bits, he thought they looked cool and was wrong because he's a 14 year old deviant art user.

    Melee Stormtrooper, dude was a champion.

    Visuals being top notch and not looking like cluttered garbage. The background especially were great and the visual atheistic of the film felt grounded and complete instead of the plastic directionless designs of the prequels.

    Lightsaber fights that felt raw and not full of flippy nonsense.

    General tone and FUN feel to the little moments in the film.

    Luke legit looking like a hobo.


The Bad:

    I liked it better when it was called A New Hope.

    Generally everything about the Death Star 3.0. What does it do after firing the 2nd shot? just sit in space slowly freezing? How did everyone see the planets it blew up from where they were. If they could see apparently the main Republic planet blowing up why didn't Han and them just fly there? It's clearly like 2 minutes away.

    Rey turning into a complete Mary Sue. Either she's really good at flying or she's suddenly a force god. You had her resisting Ren, that was a good scene it showed her force power but didn't show her doing stuff she should have no idea how to do. I loved when she tried to use the mind trick and it failed, I would have liked it to stay that way. It would show her thinking but not magically being super powerful in the force. (I don't care if she's luke's daughter or whatever, you need to have your characters learn these things. She basically showed off all of Luke's skills in ROTJ minus force jump. Going up from here leads to terrible prequel force shit. Let the force be weak. Let the biggest thing we see it do is life ONE X-wing. If you want to have her surpass Luke that's fine but keep that shit low key.)

    Ren instantly knowing that the lightsaber was Anakin's.

    Han's death scene. Not his death that was fine. The scene itself was corny as shit.

    Captain Phasma somehow being more useless than Boba Fett.

    Ren losing in a completely unsatisfying way that makes him a complete joke. Ren doesn't need to lose because he needs to train. A good way to do it would be to show Ren win because as untrained as he is, he's still more trained than Rey. That way when Rey goes to train there is still tension because, sure she's training, but so is Ren so he was already stronger than her and now he's going to get even stronger. If you want him to lose have him do it because he's a punk and he gets cocky and falls into a trap, show our characters using intelligence. Rey doesn't need to overpower him in the first battle, let her grow.

    The entire resistance attack force being like 10 X-Wings.

    The entire New Order fleet being like 20 Fighters and 1 Star Destroyer (man even the Rebels had more shit than that in the orig-trig)

    The political climate. Some how both The New Order and The Republic are tiny rebel groups. Ignoring that the Empire was far too big to simply instantly implode because no Palpatine, even if it fractured into a dozen civil wars. It was like they needed the good guys to be small but some how needed to acknowledge the empire's defeat instead of just "we did this 40 years ago and it didn't change much because it's almost like you can't take down a galaxy spanning civilization by blowing up 2 space stations" so they invented this New Republic that does nothing, apparently just got wiped out, and somehow allowed The New Order to make a massive death planet that no one knew about. Also when disposable General X gives his big speech before firing the beam of stupidity, he talks about The Republic allowing The Resistance to attack The New Order as if they're two factions currently at peace with each other.

    Carrie Fisher's acting

The What Is This Shit:

    Snoke. I thought I was watching the Hobbit Trilogy there for a minute. He looks so bad.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Shinoyami65 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 2:26 pm

View Original PostFalcon_of_the_Sun wrote:Can't think of a more ridiculous, uglier (sur)name than "Palpatine", so Snoke ain't that bad. I think we are quite used to Sith double names for the baddies.


Ever since I heard of Palpatine's now-canon first name, Sheev, I can't take him seriously. Snoke is practically menacing in comparison.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:18 pm

Wait, what?
the prophecy is true

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:20 pm

I think I need to see it a couple more times to be sure, but I grew up on the originals and seen them enough times including recently to have a good idea on the matter, but...

I think I like the new movie best. I'm probably the first you'll hear this from, if any others ever say it. But yeah. Blasphemous as it is, I think I like it best.

I doubt I'm prepared to defend that statement much, other than to say the new movie has perhaps sobered me on the originals by that much, to see what else can be done and what other ideas are out there and so forth.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:33 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:to see what else can be done and what other ideas are out there and so forth.


I would agree with you if the second half didn't completely squander that wonderful new direction by going full derivative. There was a lot of new fun direction in this that was promptly shoved aside to go down the expected path.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:41 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Not even "Fisto"? :tongue:

"Palpatine" is less ridiculous than you might think. It's just one letter away from being an Anglicized version of the Latin proper noun Palatinus. With him being an emperor and all, drawing from Latin to create a made-up name feels more than appropriate. The resemblance to the root "palpat-" (as in palpate) might seem kind of silly, I guess, but think about it a little. The guy has a history of getting his way through gradual, gentle massage (...so to speak). :tongue:

In response to Chuckman, with additional sprawling thoughts:

SPOILER: Show
I picked up on the resemblance between Kylo Ren and Anakin Skywalker. Could well be that this is meant as commentary on the inadequacies of the prequels, but it also has the benefit of working in-universe, what with Kylo being Anakin's grandson and idolizing the guy on top of that.

This suddenly makes me wonder how Kylo/Ben reconciles this idolation and the conceit that he's continuing Granddad's work with the fact that Anakin turned back to the light side. Does he, like, consider "Darth Vader" his grandfather and reject Anakin down to his Force ghost?

Huh, speaking of... Are Force ghosts going to show up? Given the fealty to the original trilogy, it would be bizarre if they didn't. It would be pretty awesome if the next movie picked up where the first left off and Rey starts developing Force Vision, only to find that Luke has not been alone, but has been hanging out with his dad, Obi-Wan, and Yoda the whole time. If this happened, I wouldn't put it past the new films to revert Lucas's terrible decision to replace a warm, at peace Sebastian Shaw with a glowering rape-face Hayden Christiansen, and perhaps find an actor who can convincingly reprise the role (given Shaw passed on some time ago). Obi-Wan could naturally be played by a Ewan McGregor in old age makeup, and Yoda is a non-issue. Of course, we wouldn't want the dead guys to overstay their welcome, but given the handling of returning characters in TFA there is probably little to worry about. And it would sure be nice to see the terrible mishandling of Anakin's character in I-III offset slightly by having his ghost impart some self-reflective wisdom onto Rey. Interaction between the two will be all the more important if Rey ends up being his granddaughter.

BTW, any idea on how Kylo Ren got his mitts on Darth Vader's melted helmet? Did, like, Luke and Leia collect the ashes and cyborg parts and put them all in a big jar until they could figure out what to do with them? And once Ben started going all nutty, did he desecrate his grandpa's remains and walk off with the "head", like some kind of Sephiroth wannabe?


Force ghosts kinda did show up, at least Ewan Mcgregor's voice did, JJ got him to do some voice over work for him.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:44 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:I would agree with you if the second half didn't completely squander that wonderful new direction by going full derivative. There was a lot of new fun direction in this that was promptly shoved aside to go down the expected path.
But about that derivative, I have to ask myself 'is the remake surpassing the original on these fronts' and on most of them, not all, I kind of think it does. Definitely not
SPOILER: Show
the destruction of the Starkiller vs the fight against the first Death Star at the end
but most parts yeah.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:03 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:But about that derivative, I have to ask myself 'is the remake surpassing the original on these fronts' and on most of them, not all, I kind of think it does. Definitely not
SPOILER: Show
the destruction of the Starkiller vs the fight against the first Death Star at the end
but most parts yeah.


I don't agree with that because I feel like it harmed all the other good things going on in the film by forcing them into the context of the derivative stuff instead of allowing for them to be fully fleshed out in a natural way.

SPOILER: Show
Like okay Han's death. I love what he was doing, I love his motivation, I like the internal Ren conflict but I completely hate the scene. It feels too much like it needs to be ObiWan's death, it's too built up for such a completely predictable death, the endless pit is corny as shit, they don't really convey it in a way that makes it land for me. It feels too forced into the context of "let's go blow up the death star" instead of a more natural scene.

Like they're on just an ice planet instead of the death star, they just found R2D2 to get the last part of the map or whatever the plot replacing the death star is and Ren is chasing them and Han decides after initially running away (because it plays into his character to hesitate to do the right thing) to stop and go back for his son and like he's trying to talk Ren down and Ren just keeps coming towards him and then he's about to kill him but pauses and backs down a little bit, it's not on a catwalk with no way out for Han, there is still tension along with Ren's internal conflict but it might be like Vader in Empire where he lets Luke (Han in this case) go because his internal struggle could go either way, and then Ren kills him. That allows it to be shocking not a protracted scene that plays out exactly like expected because every other scenario would be complete stupidity. Then you could have Finn and Rey try to fight Ren and lose but get saved by Chewie or whatever because you're not on the death star so you can play it out in a multitude of different ways other than "the hero wins handily everything is nice". Plus the absolute shock of Han's death adds more tension because you know no one is safe if Harrison Ford can die which you don't have in the current film because his death is so derivative that you understand what role it plays in the context of the film and know what's happening for the main characters next. Like I never feared for Finn even though they tried to make him look dead.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:25 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:I don't agree with that because I feel like it harmed all the other good things going on in the film by forcing them into the context of the derivative stuff instead of allowing for them to be fully fleshed out in a natural way.

That's fair enough, I mean I don't expect us to agree on this. I don't expect most anyone to agree with me on this yet heh. We just have really different reads on some of the scenes and how they should have or could have played out. Like I said I'm not prepared for a full defense of my position yet, I'd need to see the movie more for that and that probably won't be for another couple weeks.

SPOILER: Show
I just don't see the Han death scene as being much like Obi-Wan's at all, other than I guess there being onlookers to get all angry afterwards and Han just letting it happen. But that didn't bother me, it clearly bothered you. I was more focused on things like the sun going out and Han's sorrow for his son, etc. Basically I was focusing on the differences, not the similarities.

As for Finn I kind of did fear for his death because it really looked like a mortal blow. It's kind of weird to me that he survived that, I don't know how he did. Will be interesting to see how that's addressed in the next film, if at all, the extent of his injuries or replacement parts or whatnot.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:47 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:That's fair enough, I mean I don't expect us to agree on this. I don't expect most anyone to agree with me on this yet heh. We just have really different reads on some of the scenes and how they should have or could have played out. Like I said I'm not prepared for a full defense of my position yet, I'd need to see the movie more for that and that probably won't be for another couple weeks.

SPOILER: Show
I just don't see the Han death scene as being much like Obi-Wan's at all, other than I guess there being onlookers to get all angry afterwards and Han just letting it happen. But that didn't bother me, it clearly bothered you. I was more focused on things like the sun going out and Han's sorrow for his son, etc. Basically I was focusing on the differences, not the similarities.

As for Finn I kind of did fear for his death because it really looked like a mortal blow. It's kind of weird to me that he survived that, I don't know how he did. Will be interesting to see how that's addressed in the next film, if at all, the extent of his injuries or replacement parts or whatnot.


SPOILER: Show
If it wasn't so derivative and playing it safe I would fear for Finn but it just looked too much like a "oh no the hero is dead not really" scene I've seen so many times in movies, especially Disney films. If Han's death was less choreographed and more out of left field it would have aided in selling Finn's not death. Also I wasn't focused on the sun going out because that entire weapon was beyond stupid to me I hated everything about it beyond maybe the fact that it didn't just blow up when they destroyed it that was a nice subversion. You get one point not death star.

Han's death loses more on me for the predictability than the derivatives, the predictability is a product of the derivative nature but even if nothing else was happening that was derivative that scene itself would still have problems. If you got rid of the storm troopers so maybe there is a way he gets off that catwalk alive then that might help add some tension but also the way Ren removes his mask and asks for his father's help instantly told me where it was going. The fake out "he's not going to do it then he does it" trope is too over used. That's why my alternate scenario suggested having him right about to kill him then pause and pull back, hitting the fake out quota then you're like "okay he could let him go, or he could kill him" you're trying to get a read on the character there is tension, some weight behind it. As it is, it's a predictable extremely flat scene for what should be a really good strong character moment and a real high point of the film. It should have been on par with the ending of Empire but it did nothing for me.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:12 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:
SPOILER: Show
If it wasn't so derivative and playing it safe I would fear for Finn but it just looked too much like a "oh no the hero is dead not really" scene I've seen so many times in movies, especially Disney films. If Han's death was less choreographed and more out of left field it would have aided in selling Finn's not death. Also I wasn't focused on the sun going out because that entire weapon was beyond stupid to me I hated everything about it beyond maybe the fact that it didn't just blow up when they destroyed it that was a nice subversion. You get one point not death star.

Han's death loses more on me for the predictability than the derivatives, the predictability is a product of the derivative nature but even if nothing else was happening that was derivative that scene itself would still have problems. If you got rid of the storm troopers so maybe there is a way he gets off that catwalk alive then that might help add some tension but also the way Ren removes his mask and asks for his father's help instantly told me where it was going. The fake out "he's not going to do it then he does it" trope is too over used. That's why my alternate scenario suggested having him right about to kill him then pause and pull back, hitting the fake out quota then you're like "okay he could let him go, or he could kill him" you're trying to get a read on the character there is tension, some weight behind it. As it is, it's a predictable extremely flat scene for what should be a really good strong character moment and a real high point of the film. It should have been on par with the ending of Empire but it did nothing for me.
SPOILER: Show
By focused on the sun going out, I meant the symbolism for the light going out of Ren. Not a focus on the functionality of the weapon in a utilitarian sense. But the internalization of the characters. And as for any telegraphing of Han dying, I knew he was going to before going into the movie. I think most people did; it's something the actor and writer have wanted for years. So in that sense internal to the movie, I was okay with drawing out his death and it being like a 'oh, THIS is the moment' thing. I mean, it really worked for me as a scene. I thought it was stronger than Empire, in retrospect. But that's just my opinion. The scene focused very well on two integral characters and their interaction. We could go round and round but I really do think it's just going to mean different things to different people.

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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:20 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:
SPOILER: Show
By focused on the sun going out, I meant the symbolism for the light going out of Ren. Not a focus on the functionality of the weapon in a utilitarian sense. But the internalization of the characters. And as for any telegraphing of Han dying, I knew he was going to before going into the movie. I think most people did; it's something the actor and writer have wanted for years. So in that sense internal to the movie, I was okay with drawing out his death and it being like a 'oh, THIS is the moment' thing. I mean, it really worked for me as a scene. I thought it was stronger than Empire, in retrospect. But that's just my opinion. The scene focused very well on two integral characters and their interaction. We could go round and round but I really do think it's just going to mean different things to different people.


SPOILER: Show
Damn it Seele stop placing value on different things than me and enjoying things I didn't! How dare you have an opinion!

Sarcasm aside, there is a level of corniness I can tolerate, sun going out symbolism is past that line. Also I knew Han was going to die but from a overall film perspective because I have to judge it by a "what will my kids who don't have that perspective think" viewpoint, it needs to feel shocking and even going in completely blind with zero context or spoilers it was telegraphed as hell.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:50 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:I would agree with you if the second half didn't completely squander that wonderful new direction by going full derivative. There was a lot of new fun direction in this that was promptly shoved aside to go down the expected path.


They didn't though. Star Wars went full derivative. It was the archetypal hero's journey, going by the numbers from start to finish, and there was nothing original in it at all. We think it's great now because we've been stuck with it for 38 years, but at the time it was pretty damn dull. ESB was far better in many ways, since it didn't stick to a set story structure, and RotJ had far better production values all around (the starfighter battles were particularly good, but the Tattooine sequence was also pretty great) even though it was pretty much an exact retread of SW.

As to the new movie, having finally seen it I can note that,
SPOILER: Show
while it did reuse a lot of the ideas from the originals, that was the freakin' point. That's how storytelling works, and if it didn't do that we'd absolutely hate it. But instead of the cantina scene being a mere setpiece to move the plot along we get a character there who shares some pretty important plot bits. Instead of the son rescuing the father he betrays him. Instead of the novice being defeated in her first duel she's victorious. The movie plays with SW canon in lots of interesting ways, and that's something that will prove to be rewarding on repeat viewings.


As to specifics, be they likes or dislikes:

SPOILER: Show
  • I dislike Kylo Ren intensely. He's got the makings of a three-dimensional character, but as of now his motivation is shit and he has the most punchable face of any character I've seen in the cinema in recent memory. He makes Anakin look sympathetic, and that's a feat.
  • "TRAITOR!" Villains who don't get irony suck. You don't get to call a damn mook a traitor when you've murdered your peers and betrayed your instructor and your family. That level of hypocrisy makes the baby Jesus cry.
  • Han was great, his death scene was fine, people just need to relax.
  • Holy fuckcakes, Chewie was fantastic! Best use of the character in the whole damn saga to date.
  • How did BB-8 manage to be so damn charming? That little guy was even better than R2, and again, that's saying something.
  • if Rey isn't Luke's daughter I'll eat my hats. All of them. Also, Rey is made of win. Some of her lines were a bit flat, but I love the fact that she was a mechanical genius and had an instinctive understanding of the Force. That's how a "chosen one" ought to work (and make no mistake, that's exactly what she is -- the reaction of other characters to hearing about her, particularly Kylo Ren, makes it a lock).
  • The starfighter scenes were good, but lacked polish. They were awesome individually (particularly Rey's first jaunt in the Falcon . . . some really fantastic maneuvers there, and you know what I'm talking about!), but were a little busy and didn't gel very well collectively.
  • J.J. Abrams needs to learn that space is big. Really, really big. No, bigger than that. It's big!
  • Carrie Fisher (and by extension Leia) has not aged well.
  • Rey has an excuse, but how the hell is Finn able to handle a lightsaber like that?
  • Competent stormtroopers. Competent TIE pilots. In Star Wars. I don't know how to process this.
  • Phasma: Sigh. Look, if you're gonna make her a named character, and you're even gonna give her a unique set of armor, you can't have her just give in and say "oh well, gee, I guess I will take down the shields and let you completely destroy my organization just because you act mildly threatening." Because, well, that's dumb.
  • There were lots of great little bits, most of them coming from Chewie and BB-8. Personal favorite: "Han was a war hero?" "Eh."
  • There were lots of Abrams-isms that detracted from the script. Like, "so, do you talk now or do I talk now? Because" blah blah blah. Or, "Why are you doing that? What's with that? What are you doing?" It's stuff that kinda works in a contemporary Abrams show but doesn't really fit the setting of SW.
  • What the devil are people on about re: Snoke? Guy is fine. Compare him to the Emperor in ESB, guy was flat as a pancake. Snoke is pretty bitchin' by comparison.


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Re: Star Wars

Postby Glor » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:56 pm

I really loved this movie. While the pacing felt a bit too jumpy, it was still a fun and amazing experience. There were so many powerful and compelling shots/moments for me, and I'm not talking about all the awesome nostalgia stuff, but-
SPOILER: Show
in particular the opening battle scene with Finn and the streaks of blood left on his helmet from a dying trooper really stuck with me. It was also a clever way of identifying him as a character. There were many others, but I definitely have to go see it again.


Also-
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I'd have to take a look at more stills, but does anyone have any theories as to why the other Knights of Ren (who we see during the lightsaber flashback) don't have lightsabers as well? There are at least two holding blasters. My first thought was Mandalorians, since it also looks like one guy has this awesome vibro-axe near the back. But that's probably just the Fett fanboy in me. Has it even been confirmed that the others with Kylo are Knights of Ren, or is that just an assumption being made because they're standing with him?
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:00 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:They didn't though. Star Wars went full derivative. It was the archetypal hero's journey, going by the numbers from start to finish, and there was nothing original in it at all. We think it's great now because we've been stuck with it for 38 years, but at the time it was pretty damn dull. ESB was far better in many ways, since it didn't stick to a set story structure, and RotJ had far better production values all around (the starfighter battles were particularly good, but the Tattooine sequence was also pretty great) even though it was pretty much an exact retread of SW.

As to the new movie, having finally seen it I can note that,
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while it did reuse a lot of the ideas from the originals, that was the freakin' point. That's how storytelling works, and if it didn't do that we'd absolutely hate it. But instead of the cantina scene being a mere setpiece to move the plot along we get a character there who shares some pretty important plot bits. Instead of the son rescuing the father he betrays him. Instead of the novice being defeated in her first duel she's victorious. The movie plays with SW canon in lots of interesting ways, and that's something that will prove to be rewarding on repeat viewings.


So wait, the Empire Strikes Back (widely regarded as the best Star Wars film, one of the best sequels of all time, and one of the best sequels of all time) did new and exciting things, while Return Of The Jedi (widely regarded as the worst of the original trilogy) was a rehash and yet people would have a problem with The Force Awakens for not being derivative enough?
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Glor » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:05 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:
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  • Rey has an excuse, but how the hell is Finn able to handle a lightsaber like that?
  • Competent stormtroopers. Competent TIE pilots. In Star Wars. I don't know how to process this.


I think your second point there answers the one above it.
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This Staw Wars gave us Stormtroopers who were, for once, very good at killing things. I think the scene with the Stormtrooper and his wicked arm-shock-stick-thing was to give the audience the hint that these guys at least know their way around melee combat. So I found Finn's ability with the saber believable.
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:17 pm

Bags, I was expecting that speech from the trailer at the end.

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Luke: (to Rey) The force is strong in my family. My father had it. My sister has it. My daughter has it.

Didn't happen, tho. Weird that Hamill had no lines.

If she is Luke's daughter that raises the question of his mother.

One thing I like about this movie is that they know how to handle backstory in a way that Lucas never did. You let it breathe. The story begins before the story, you don't need to flesh out everything in exhaustive detail by making a prequel trilogy

I'm hoping they kept Mara Jade and make a movie about her as one of these side films. Recast Luke, I don't care if Wookiepedians all shit themselves in agony.


Otherwise I think when it comes to Ren you're blaming the movie for the character.

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He's supposed to be a whiny douche. Ren is to Anakin/the prequels generally as Nero and the Narada are to Piclone (can't remember what his Romulan name was supposed to be) and the Nemesis or whatever and the Next Gen flicks generally
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Tarnsman » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:23 pm

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The storm troopers and tie pilots in this are competent? These are the same guys that couldn't take out two people running them on foot with 2 fighters and a squad of soldiers. Let the Millennium Falcon take of after bombing their previous ship before they could get to it. Lost to a ship with a gun that couldn't move flown and gunned by two novices. Got completely slaughtered with complete ease by poe. Their captain was captured and disabled their shields after light persuasion. Are able to be force persuaded by an untrained novice despite being "conditioned from birth" you would think that would be part of the conditioning. Got completely destroyed by 4 people on the ground in their home base while outnumbering them a million to one. Outside of Melee Trooper all they accomplished was killing some unarmed villagers and capturing the heroes once. (Which they did in the original trilogy)
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Re: Star Wars

Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:37 pm

View Original PostGlor wrote:I think your second point there answers the one above it.
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This Staw Wars gave us Stormtroopers who were, for once, very good at killing things. I think the scene with the Stormtrooper and his wicked arm-shock-stick-thing was to give the audience the hint that these guys at least know their way around melee combat. So I found Finn's ability with the saber believable.


Yeah, that's a fair point. It was kind of weird, but was sold enough in other contexts that I could buy it after a bit of thought.

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Bags, I was expecting that speech from the trailer at the end.


Honestly, I thought the whole last sequence would have worked better at the beginning of the next movie. I get what Abrams/Kasdan were trying to do there, but after the whole climax was wrapped up it just fell into LOTR syndrome.

As to Ren, I get that he's exactly what he's supposed to be. I just don't care for that sort of character as an antagonist.
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