Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Ray » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:22 pm

Marvel can't lose no matter what they do. Even if they did mess up the Goodwill they've built up will save the brand in the long term while other companies don't have any Goodwill at all especially Warner Brothers and DC.

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Postby El Squibbonator » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:31 pm

That's what I said. They've loaded the dice, they've given themselves an unfair advantage. If it were all fair, other studios would be doing the same thing as them with the same amount of success.
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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:51 pm

What unfair advantages? Why are you guys talking about this like some kind of competition you’re personally invested in anyway?
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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby El Squibbonator » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:27 am

I didn't intend for it to come off that way, but I think Ray started it with his dislike of the MCU for scuttling other superhero movie series.
Life can seem a challenge. Life can seem impossible. It's never easy when so much is on the line.


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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:13 am

Watching a Marvel superhero movie:
“Hey, enjoy the movie. We’re really excited about what we’re dping with the characters. Tune in next time if you feel like it.”

Watching a non-Marvel superhero movie:
“HEY GUYS, WE’RE TOTALLY MAKING A SEQUEL TO THIS FILM. LIKE, SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS. JUST LOOK AT HOW BIG THE SEQUEL IS GOING TO BE. I MEAN, WE’RE GONNA HAVE DOC OC, VENOM, DARKSIED, STEPPENWOLF, WHOEVER YOU WANT. WHATEVER YOU WANT. WE DON’T EVEN CARE HOW WE GET THERE. IT’S GONNA BE EPIC AT SOME POINT, WE PROMISE. EVENTUALLY. In the meantime, here’s a 5-minute scene where your favorite superheroes punch each other repeatedly in the dark, surrounded by a confusing plot.”

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Ray » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:44 pm

They HAVE to cram all that into their movies catch up to where Marvel is now if they want any hope of being able to compete. The bubble will pop if they took their time setting everything up gradually over the course of several years.

Marvel's success has made everyone else too self conscious to get it right.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:23 pm

Well, they FEEL like they have to cram. You’re right about Marvel making most studio heads too self-conscious to do it right anymore. I will counterpoint the idea that it can’t be done, though. Logan and Deadpool prove that you can still make a “one-shot” movie and still have it please all of the critics and thrill all of the audiences. And, to Chuckman’s point, it can do all of those things with little to no regard for continuity.

It’ll be interesting to see how well Black Panther does compared to Deadpool, actually. Both will be February releases of comic book IPs, both were expected to do well in the box office, but one will have a significantly lower budget than the other. (Mostly because it had far less superheroes.) Deadpool and Logan prove that audiences are not the ones saying “Oh, it doesn’t have 12 superheroes in it, nobody will watch it.” Only self-aware studio heads are saying that, and it’s to their own detriment.

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Postby Ray » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:45 pm

Disney plays the long game. it's not just that they want you to buy the movie opening weekend, it's that they want your GRANDCHILDREN to be paying on opening weekend in 30 years when the Superhero genre comes back after a lull of a decade or so.

Side note. During the 'superhero lull' that starts in 2028 or so. I expect Disney to keep the Marvel brand alive by making 'Superhero but not really' movies to supplement this.

They've got a buttload of Cowboy characters, make an old west movie with one of them. You've seen westerns, now come see the MARVELtm western! You want a Jurassic Park Franchise that doesn't suck? Here's a Ka-Zar in the Savage Land movie with Dinosaurs! Want a scary movie? Here's a movie the Brood now that we've got the X-Men rights back!

While DC's stuck with it's thumb up it's ass for the next fifty years.

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Postby Chuckman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:12 pm

Warner Brothers is treating this like a bubble, that's why the movies they're making suck. Everything reeks of joyless, unplanned paint by numbers corporate thinking. They don't know how this kind of storytelling works and they don't care to learn or find someone who does to head the project, so they make a list of things that work (Nolan's name on it, Hans Zimmer, Goyer, Snyder, etc) and mash it all together. The movies don't stand alone, they're not their own thing. They have nothing interesting to add or say, and when they try it ends up contradictory and confusing.

The only reason Wonder Woman is so good is because it had to be its own thing. There are no previous Wonder Woman movies to pastiche, parody, reference, deconstruct, reconstruct, invert, subvert, or whatever, and she has the same advantage as Iron Man, in that most people probably have a passing familiarity from cultural osmosis but haven't made their mind up about her going into the theater.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Ray » Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:26 pm

Keep using those pejorative terms. :facepalm:

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:14 am

...didn't you just spend several weeks complaining about the way Marvel movies are being made?

Brick, here is glass house.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:24 pm

Last night a cosmic spacefaring whale-like spirit came to me in a dream and said DC should reboot the DCCU with Tom Hanks portraying Superman.
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Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby El Squibbonator » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:58 pm

Tom Hanks can play anyone. He's the only actor to portray both Mr. Rogers and Walt Disney. If anyone could do a good job as Superman, it's him.
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Postby Chuckman » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:02 pm

If you think about it, Superman should be a lot like Mister Rogers, so there you go.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby Ray » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:20 pm

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:32 pm

I saw Black Panther this afternoon. It's a strong drama that says something about real world issues and takes some risks to do so, and a great action movie. The script is really tight and the direction and pacing are excellent. Marvel is really stepping up their game between Ragnarok, this movie, and Civil War.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:43 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I saw Black Panther this afternoon. It's a strong drama that says something about real world issues and takes some risks to do so, and a great action movie. The script is really tight and the direction and pacing are excellent. Marvel is really stepping up their game between Ragnarok, this movie, and Civil War.


It also has the best soundtrack of any Marvel film.

Yeah, this was a blast. I particularly enjoyed the fact that there was a lot of moral ambiguity on the part of some of the "good guy" characters, plus they wrote a main villain that had probably the most justified motivation of any of the Marvel villains.
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:51 pm

They took the "Marvel origin movie" formula of "Hero has badass moments, has a big fight, loses their powers, has to get them back in a moment of personal crisis, and fights a guy with the same suit/powers" and made it really fresh and well executed. Of all the 'first' Marvel movies I think this is the most solid since Iron Man. So far Black Panther is the only sub-franchise that got its feet under it right from the very start without having to work to find itself the way Thor and Cap did.

And yeah, Michael B. Jordan was phenomenal. The entire cast was on the level of Angelical Houston and Forrest Whitaker which is fucking saying something. Letitia Wright put in a fantastic performance for such a young actor.

Plus I really liked how they created a sense of a living, breathing African "Atlantis" that neither fetishes the aesthetics of African cultures nor subtly implies that being super-advanced means acting white.

Also Andy Serkis is fucking hysterical and I hope
SPOILER: Show
that his not being in frame when he was killed and never seeing his body when Killmonger delivered it means he can return.

Also, this movie actually made me take the name Killmonger seriously. That's as big a deal as if GotG 2 had made Taserface's name not sound ludicrous.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:58 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:They took the "Marvel origin movie" formula of "Hero has badass moments, has a big fight, loses their powers, has to get them back in a moment of personal crisis, and fights a guy with the same suit/powers" and made it really fresh and well executed.


SPOILER: Show
They also basically gave the villain a Batman-like origin story, and he's really only the "villain" mainly because of his grudge against our established hero's father for murdering his dad. It's fantastic, and you really feel sympathy for him.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Superhero/Comic Based Films & Tv - Vol.2

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:02 pm

SPOILER: Show
The movie is an essay on why the "dark" version of Batman etc. evinces weakness, not power.

Even though the movie ends with a duel, the ending is ultimately about a superhero who wins without fighting. Or at least does something about his signature issue without fighting.
the prophecy is true

Statistical fact: Cops will never pull over a man with a huge bong in his car. Why? They fear this man. They know he sees further than they and he will bind them with ancient logics. —Marty Mikalski


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