Godzilla & Kaiju General!

[silvermoonlight]

Mechagodzilla with King Ghidorah's one surviving head stapled to its shoulder and screaming bloody murder.

The mental image of that is hilarious

I would love to see them both like I'm totally game for that as Mechagodzilla vs Mecha King Ghidorah could be a wild fight if the universe is now getting to the point where humanity is making their own monsters as it adds a whole new dynamic CGI wise and means you can start bringing in new factions. As its clear the military is just out of its league at this point and everyone might still be angry at them for almost killing their savour in KOTM, so they may start creating their own off faction who use genetics.

Though from memory Mechagodzilla comes with its own issues, and it doesn't always end well for who ever is trying to control him.

[movieartman]

Outline of Mechagodzilla can be seen on the screen here. Big arms.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Looks fun. But I''m going in with lowered expectations for a couple reasons.

I was burned by KOTM being a complete misfire - not getting into a debate about it - and I've heard horror stories behind the scenes about how the film's production. There's a reason Warner Brothers isn't fighting to move the film back a few months to when it could have a bigger theatrical audience.

Anywho, the movie looks fine. WB has a good marketing team - remember the KOTM trailers? - but yeah, I'm expecting the reason Godzilla is destroying everything is because it's MechaGodzilla. The one Japanese guy in the trailer is clearly evil and in cahoots with Demian Bichir. Real Godzilla won't show up until the halfway point or beginning of the third act.

I also find it silly they're expecting to sell the idea Kong can beat Godzilla and even say "Kong bows to no one" when the motherfucker is tied down on a boat. Man got him. They caught him. Godzilla they can't even cause him to stub his toe.

I'm going in with low expectations. Might be surprised.

[silvermoonlight]

Outline of Mechagodzilla can be seen on the screen here. Big arms.

Thank you for this, and I agree this confirms it as you say.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I was burned by KOTM being a complete misfire - not getting into a debate about it - and I've heard horror stories behind the scenes about how the film's production.

Yeah, I found KotM really fun to watch, but it was not anywhere near as good as the Gareth Edwards film at all. Even the sillier Japanese movies had more going for them. Maybe it's Legendary taking the MonsterVerse this far from the fantasy genre compared to the Toho films that rubbed me the wrong way in the long run, or just the mere lip service to environmentalism feeling flat and unchallenging. I dunno. Original King Kong vs Godzilla (and then Toho's two Mothra films) set out to destroy Capitalism. I can't imagine this newer movie having anything that thematically hitting as that.

Also, what horror stories have you heard? I've been in the dark about this movie's production, but sensed that their delays and lack of marketing for this long was a bit suspicious.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Also, what horror stories have you heard? I've been in the dark about this movie's production, but sensed that their delays and lack of marketing for this long was a bit suspicious.

There's been a lot of shuffling of things in post. WB/Legendary were certain they had a billion dollar blockbuster on their hands with Godzilla: King of the Monsters. They were so confidant they had this in the bag that that they put Godzilla Vs. Kong into production and had finished filming before KOTM was released. GvsK finished filming in April 2019, KOTM was released in May 2019. From what I've heard, when KOTM drastically underperformed - the $200 million+ movie never crossed $400 million worldwide.... that's BAD - a lot of changes to the story & tone were made in post but knowing they likely don't have a hit worthy of a rumored $220+ million budget on their hands, they also didn't want to risk any more money on reshoots thus increasing the budget dramatically so these changes have been made in the edit without any additional shooting to adjust the tone, etc.

I just won't be surprised if the film will feel like large chunks are missing or that there are drastic tonal shifts. BUT I also wouldn't be surprised if the movie has a sub 100 minute runtime in which case it might be great because they cut out all the dumb and unnecessary fat they toss on these blockbusters. Lol.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

That gave me Batman v Superman flashbacks. That's not good.

[Gendo'sPapa]

It's pretty much the same scenario.

Warner Brothers has been trying hard to have their own Marvel Cinematic Universe and while I personally don't like the MCU the smartest thing they did was take their time. They didn't get to their first team up until their sixth film and they had started to figure out what tone people liked for the film. With the DCU and MonsterVerse they dove in so fast that they still didn't know what kind of movie people wanted when they got to the big team up flicks by the third & fourth entry.

I think WB has figured it out, mostly, with the DC Universe now. Just let the films all be their own thing and not try to make it adherent to one filmmaker. We're getting better films (mostly, WW84 oof) from the WB owned DCU and there's going to be a new great work in there somewhere.
With the Monsterverse... I think the biggest mistake was WB thought there was a bigger audience for these types of films that there are. The people that like Kaiju stuff love it and are very vocal about it. But there isn't an audience to support movies THIS big that at the very minimum need to make over half a billion every time just to turn out a profit.

On the bright side, once this is out in March Toho can start making Godzilla films again.

[movieartman]

It's pretty much the same scenario.

Warner Brothers has been trying hard to have their own Marvel Cinematic Universe and while I personally don't like the MCU the smartest thing they did was take their time. They didn't get to their first team up until their sixth film and they had started to figure out what tone people liked for the film. With the DCU and MonsterVerse they dove in so fast that they still didn't know what kind of movie people wanted when they got to the big team up flicks by the third & fourth entry.

I think WB has figured it out, mostly, with the DC Universe now. Just let the films all be their own thing and not try to make it adherent to one filmmaker. We're getting better films (mostly, WW84 oof) from the WB owned DCU and there's going to be a new great work in there somewhere.
With the Monsterverse... I think the biggest mistake was WB thought there was a bigger audience for these types of films that there are. The people that like Kaiju stuff love it and are very vocal about it. But there isn't an audience to support movies THIS big that at the very minimum need to make over half a billion every time just to turn out a profit.

On the bright side, once this is out in March Toho can start making Godzilla films again.

2014 did very well at the box office and the serious/poignant trailers are still wildly regarded (like those of Man of Steel) as being some of the best movie trailers ever. I think general audiences wanted that grim apocalyptic feeling Kajiu film and were taken back by Godzilla being a hero in 2014 and outright turned off by the lack of screentime.

I really think that more than anything else resulted in the weak box office for KOTM, because while that film also had fantastic well received trailers, the TV spots were more quipy & silly and as much praise as the trailers got I still read regular consistent concerns about them not showing the monsters enough again. Think about it, the Bayformers films despite being weak to bad films still were mostly box office gold because they had non stop action. I don't think audiences who love giant rampaging robots are so picky as to turn their noses up at giant monsters IF the films satisfied them in regards to action/destruction.

And then a good portion of people that saw KOTM were tragically disappointed again because while KOTM was more action filled, it had non stop quick cuts to the suposedly boring human cast reacting and quiping, such is a universal complaint I have seen, I personally think such is incredibly monumentally overblown.

Tonally this trailer is still fairly serious but I think the song was a mistake. Star Trek Beyond made similar weak music choices.

[Gendo'sPapa]

the TV spots were more quipy & silly

I argue in a digital world TV spots matter less and less in the run of things but if anything going quippier should have enticed mored people to see the film. in the US at least the films that dominated the box office pre pandemic were super quippy. The MCU is basically sold on every character no matter where they're from, sounding like a Joss Whedon character.

KOTM did poorly at the box office because
1.It's a terrible film and the toxic word of mouth about it being garbage spread far and fast. It's a film that tries so hard to please everyone that it pleases no one... except those who are already all in and will excuse everything.
2.Audiences REALLY didn't like the serious tone of the (great) 2014 film which was a modest success at the box office - it had a huge opening weekend and a sharp drop off - because audiences prefer quippy movies. All the talk of that (great) film besides the silly "There's not enough Godzilla" was that the film was too serious. So the Monsterverse immediately switched from being a serious franchise to a more jokey affair with a lighter color palette and comedians showing up to toss in one liners at random moments.
3. If given the choice a larger percentage of the general public would rather see people in superhero outfits or a remake of an old Disney movie starring Will Smith then they would the King of the Monsters. KOTM barely beat Aladdin 2019 it's opening weekend at the box office. Barely.

If you take the Jurassic Park series out of the equation the highest grossing monster film of all time is Kong: Skull Island and while it did well the film still made less than a film like Thor: The Dark World, one of the least successful Marvel films. There's an audience for one type of film and not the other. And not from a lack of trying. WB has done what they can. Even Pacific Rim only got a sequel because audiences in China went to see it.

The seeeerious Kaiju fans may find the films overly quippy but the average filmgoer - the people films of this scale need to bring in to survive - love quips in their big blockbusters.
Quips didn't kill the film in the eyes of the general public. Another movie about monsters is what killed it.

If Hollywood would find a way to do these films at a budget of $60 mullion - which is still like 8 times the budget of Shin Godzilla so it can be done - they'd have a good thing going. They need to make small stories at the ground level. Cloverfield did it. Colossal did it. Hopefully one day a Hollywood studio will be able to do it with Godzilla. But at budgets of $170 to $250 million with marketing budgets of $100 million minimum these films will never turn a profit.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Honestly Colossal is one of the best American Kaiju movies since the 50's. It understands it's themes, it's capable of presenting a tone that goes from silly and full of jokes to something that's more dramatic and desperate, and, just like a lot of the original Japanese Kaiju films, it understands that the Americans were the real monsters all along. I also think that the criticisms of the flashback scene in Colossal were overblown. Like, sure, I guess we didn't need an explanation of how or why Anne Hathaway can make a monster in South Korea and have it mimic her moves, but the film isn't as bad for having that scene as the internet has claimed. Pacific Rim comes at a close second, mostly because it's able to effectively switch to whatever tone it wants at a drop of a hat without completely losing the audience. (But, for me anyway, it also has the same effect on me that Jurassic Park or The Princess Bride has, where I'll also consider it the "Best Move Ever Made" only during the exact moment I'm watching it.)

Godzilla (2014) was the most visually impressive American Kaiju film, all things considered. While KotM certainly has more action throughout, the set pieces themselves don't feel as earth-shatteringly big as the 2014 film made them out to be. If GvK really wanted to go for that quippy tone, then they should have built the movie from the group up as being a mockery of the rampant Capitalism-at-all-costs-via-the-television/whatever-industry mindset that the original 1962 King Kong vs Godzilla film was. Or going for the tone in Ghidorah, The Three-Headed Monster wouldn't be a bad idea either. (Can you imagine the kind of quips you'd get from a pair of small Shobijin girls that speak in unison? "Godzilla, what terrible language!" would only be the start of all that!)

Honestly, we could have had a pretty good run of MonsterVerse movies continue from all this if budgets were kept at around $60 million like Gendo's Papa said. But, for some reason, we live during an age where studios have to post on the biggest investments making the biggest returns, so I guess we're just not going to get nice things in spectacle filmmaking until they get out of that phase.

[Settie]

Well i'm sold! This is something i'm willing to go to theaters to see. Luckily my local cinemas remain open, albeit with vastly reduced showtimes (1 or showtimes per movie during the middle of the day) so fingers crossed they remain open till the movie drops. Also i must say this trailer was done much better than those of KOTM and similar to K:SI, even with that "interesting" song choice, it lays out the stakes with enough mystery to make me want to see more of it.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Movie was pushed back a few days. But nothing major.

Moved from March 26 to March 31. Still hitting theaters & HBO Max the same day.

Basically with James Bond's No Time To Die deciding April 2021 still isn't time to risk people dying and has been pushed back to late 2021 Warner Brothers has moved GvsK to the release date they wanted a few months ago but were afraid was tooo close to 007.

[movieartman]

Skull Island anime series coming to Netflix
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/k ... ix-a182012

A shipwrecked crew, an island of monsters, and one king to rule them all."

All the talk of that (great) film besides the silly "There's not enough Godzilla" was that the film was too serious.

I really don't remember any kind of consistent tonal complaints about 2014 whatsoever.

You can say the monster screentime complaints are silly and I may even agree to a extent but they are prevalent.

Here is a major tweet less than 24 hours old complaining about such and it's got 4000+ likes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RubberNinja/ ... 3877477377

[silvermoonlight]

I hope both of these are aimed at adults and are anime made by anime studios and not aimed at kids as every one considers Netflix's camp Cretaceous a joke since it has an all kid cast therefore no child can ever be killed on screen which annoyed all the fans who come to watch the wreckage and to see dinosaurs killing and eating people and who felt like there was nothing for them in the series.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I feel like American filmmakers still haven't gotten their heads around what to do with human characters in their monster flicks. I remember even as a kid being engaged with the human characters in movies like Godzilla: King of the Monsters! (1956), Godzilla vs The Thing, Godzilla vs Monster Zero, and even Godzilla vs the Sea Monster. (Sure, they weren't as cool as the monster characters, but they were still interesting to watch.) As I started watching the later series as a kid, like Godzilla vs Gigan, and Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla, I began to see the human characters as more of a waste of time and started skipping them entirely. (The fast-forward feature on VCRs wasn't nearly fast enough, honestly.) It wasn't until I grew up when I found out that most (but not all) of the movies I thought had engaging human characters as a kid were directed by Ishiro Honda. Honda's movies would at least have inventors, scientists, news reporters, and in some cases even aliens from outer space and little fairy priestess, all of which had interesting and colorful lives and passions that spoke to the movie's usage of the monsters. The movies where I found the human scenes boring and needless were mostly (but not always, Godzilla vs the Sea Monster at least had one anti-hero that intrigued me as a kid) directed by Jun Fukuda. Unfortunately, it Fukuda's Godzilla films that had the biggest impact on the baby boomer generation growing to like Godzilla. While Godzilla was certainly known and appreciated in America before Fukuda's involvement with the franchise, the definitive cultural zeitgeist in America seems to have been the televised version of Godzilla vs Megalon, the Godzilla movie with one of the least interesting cast of human characters I've ever seen. While some of them are inventors, scientists, and even expys for aliens (Seatopia citizens), none of them seemed to have lives outside of their simplest occupational title, and really just filled time before the special effects crew could use their limited budget to create a couple of half-interesting monster set pieces.

It's these less-than-stellar titles from the otherwise inspired Showa Era collection that was many American filmmakers' first (and sometimes only!) exposure to Godzilla, and it shows. Roland Emmerich didn't want to "make a silly monster movie" (despite his narrative tendencies fitting quite well with films like Godzilla vs Megalon), Gareth Edwards struggles to find interesting things for his human characters to do, and Michael Dougherty seems to give up entirely and sink into the same narrative pitfalls that Jun Fukuda also fell in.

Oh well, it could be worse. I haven't felt any Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla vibes in these American movies yet. I certainly hope telekinesis doesn't become a thing that's suddenly introduced and dropped in the same film.

[Bagheera]

You can say the monster screentime complaints are silly and I may even agree to a extent but they are prevalent.

Here is a major tweet less than 24 hours old complaining about such and it's got 4000+ likes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RubberNinja/ ... 3877477377

They're prevalent, but stupid. Kaiju movies have always had mostly human plots. That's how they work -- you have your humans to set things up, and then the kaiju stomp onto the screen and wrestle for a bit before wandering off. If you go and watch Showa-era Godzilla the average screen time for the kaiju is like ten minutes. You get a bit more in the Heisei stuff, but even so Godzilla 2014 was pretty much middle of the pack. I have to wonder if people who complain about its lack of screentime for the big G have ever even seen a kaiju movie.

[Gendo'sPapa]

Speaking of Kaiju....

tweet-body

— twitter-user (@username) date

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

That trailer was amazing, but the uneven lights in his head representing his "eyes" are bothering me.

I can't wait for this movie to come out, regardless.

[movieartman]

Cloverfield direct sequel is coming - https://www.comicbookmovie.com/sci-fi/c ... ed-a182070
Apparently it won't be found footage?

Recently rewatched the original film, it firmly holds up.