Anime Insider's Top 50
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- Semisubtle
- Lilith
- Posts: 119
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- Location: Connecticut
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- Eva Yojimbo
- Redbeard
- Age: 38
- Posts: 8005
- Joined: Feb 17, 2007
- Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
- Gender: Male
Why? Granted, it's not appreciated nearly as much here as in Japan, but still...Semisubtle wrote:I was very surprised to see Eva so high on the list,
No.Semisubtle wrote:Cowboy Bebop does totally deserve number one, though, I'll give them that.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
- BrikHaus
- Dokutah Tenma
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Feb 11, 2006
- Location: Attending Physician - AKA: Hell
- Contact:
Eva Yojimbo wrote:I agree, it is by far the best series of all time, far better than Evangelion.Semisubtle wrote:Cowboy Bebop does totally deserve number one, though, I'll give them that.
fixed
Awesomely Shitty
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
BrikHaus wrote:Eva Yojimbo wrote:I agree, it is by far the best series of all time, far better than Evangelion.Semisubtle wrote:Cowboy Bebop does totally deserve number one, though, I'll give them that.
fixed
EVA's a great show, don't get me wrong, but I think in order to be #1, you have to be able to appeal to a large variety of people. And frankly Cowboy Bebop does a better job of this than EVA (not to mention the ending dosen't make me wanna OD on Vicodin).
" Just one question America...WHO IS FUCKING OUR PING PONG BALLS!?" -Dr.Stephen T Colbert DFA
I liked eva a bit better then bebop, though if were talking series I liked flcl the best.
Parasite Galaxy: An experimental webcomic
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- CitizenGeek
- Ireul
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Sep 02, 2007
- Location: Ireland
- Gender: Male
There's no way Cowboy Bebop is better than Evangelion, or, indeed, most of the series in that top 10. Cowboy Bebop is outstanding, but it's not as almighty as many suggest. The comedy in the series is often cringe-inducing-ly childish thanks to Ed, it's episodic nature means very few plots harness the potential they show at the start of the episode and the music (excluding the OP and ED) are far from Yoko Kanno's best work. That said, I found Cowboy Bebop immensely enjoyable, however it most certainly does not deserve the number 1 position, especially over stuff like Evangelion.
I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf mutes.
- Eva Yojimbo
- Redbeard
- Age: 38
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- Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
- Gender: Male
fixed.BrikHaus wrote:Cowboy Bebop is to anime what John Woo is to film-making, and Eva is 1,000,000x better (apprx.)
Lol, no.TriLink12 wrote:I agree, it is by far the best series of all time, far better than Evangelion.
That's a rather arbitrary distinction. Mass appeal is no reflection of quality, and if anything it's usually a sign of crappiness.TriLink12 wrote:EVA's a great show, don't get me wrong, but I think in order to be #1, you have to be able to appeal to a large variety of people.
Terminator 2 appeals to more people than, say, Tokyo Story. But I'll give you one guess to tell me which is the better film.TriLink12 wrote:And frankly Cowboy Bebop does a better job of this than EVA (not to mention the ending dosen't make me wanna OD on Vicodin).
QFFT.CitizenGeek wrote:There's no way Cowboy Bebop is better than Evangelion, or, indeed, most of the series in that top 10. Cowboy Bebop is outstanding, but it's not as almighty as many suggest. The comedy in the series is often cringe-inducing-ly childish thanks to Ed, it's episodic nature means very few plots harness the potential they show at the start of the episode and the music (excluding the OP and ED) are far from Yoko Kanno's best work. That said, I found Cowboy Bebop immensely enjoyable, however it most certainly does not deserve the number 1 position, especially over stuff like Evangelion.
Cowboy Bebop is all style and little substance. Well made, but with little depth. Extremely enjoyable, but ultimately vacuous. It's the equivalent of many of Tarantino's films. And don't get me wrong, he's a great director, but he's a better stylist than anything. His films don't have much substance beyond the craft.
NGE, however, succeeds on levels that Bebop doesn't even touch. It's equally as stylish, but there's substance there as well. Not only well made, but with a ton of depth behind the craft. Not only enjoyable, but artistically relevant in ways no other anime has ever been.
If you're going for mass appeal and pure enjoyment, Bebop's your pick. NGE is more than great entertainment, it's great art. And great art kicks entertainment's ass every day and twice on Thursday (why Thursday? I don't know. Ask art.)
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
- thewayneiac
- Committeeperson
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Aug 26, 2004
- Location: How Kaworu got to the Moon
Cool! I've seen 31 of these.
The problem with lists like these is that too many people can't distinguish between "best" and "favorite". Anyway,
Too low on list:
Escaflowne
Kino's Journey (way too low on list)
Cardcaptor Sakura
Urusei Yatsura
Missing from list:
Angelic Layer
Maison Ikkoku
It is a CRIME that Maison Ikkoku is not on this list. What were they thinking?! Takahashi's greatest.
Too high on list:
Cowboy Beebop.
Macross Plus
These are two of my favorite shows, but better than Grave of the Fireflies and Totoro? No Way!
FLCL is also too high for the same reason.
The problem with lists like these is that too many people can't distinguish between "best" and "favorite". Anyway,
Too low on list:
Escaflowne
Kino's Journey (way too low on list)
Cardcaptor Sakura
Urusei Yatsura
Missing from list:
Angelic Layer
Maison Ikkoku
It is a CRIME that Maison Ikkoku is not on this list. What were they thinking?! Takahashi's greatest.
Too high on list:
Cowboy Beebop.
Macross Plus
These are two of my favorite shows, but better than Grave of the Fireflies and Totoro? No Way!
FLCL is also too high for the same reason.
Last edited by thewayneiac on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
- BrikHaus
- Dokutah Tenma
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Feb 11, 2006
- Location: Attending Physician - AKA: Hell
- Contact:
BobBQ wrote:I object to the implication that any given anime must be a megaton mindfuck in order to qualify for greatness.
Sure, Bebop doesn't have the Hedgehog's Dilemma, but it does have a hell of a lot more common sense and internal continuity than NGE.
Thank you, Bob. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Awesomely Shitty
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
It is a CRIME that Maison Ikkoku is not on this list. What were they thinking?! Takahashi's greatest.
Personally I think urusei yatsura is her best but then again I havent seen maison ikkoku yet so we'll have to wait and see there.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject:
Cool! I've seen 31 of these.
The problem with lists like these is that too many people can't distinguish between "best" and "favorite". Anyway,
Too low on list:
Escaflowne
Kino's Journey (way too low on list)
Cardcaptor Sakura
I dunno I didn't like what I saw of card captor, but then again that was the dub. Escaflowne was good, but I wouldnt say it was so great that its around the top of the list either.
That's a rather arbitrary distinction. Mass appeal is no reflection of quality, and if anything it's usually a sign of crappiness.
That's another thing I've been telling people. Other peoples opinions should not determine if you think somethings good or not, thats something only you can decide on your own.
Sure, Bebop doesn't have the Hedgehog's Dilemma, but it does have a hell of a lot more common sense and internal continuity than NGE.
Well in terms of technical quality Bebop might be better, but I think eva would score higher in some of the other areas.
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If you want to support this comic buy something from me on amazon
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Eva Yojimbo wrote:Terminator 2 appeals to more people than, say, Tokyo Story. But I'll give you one guess to tell me which is the better film.TriLink12 wrote:And frankly Cowboy Bebop does a better job of this than EVA (not to mention the ending dosen't make me wanna OD on Vicodin).
I've never seen Tokyo Story, and I LOVE Terminator 2, so...
*ahem*
What's wrong with wanting a little mindless fun every now and then? In the same way that EVA's great for it's "mindfucks" (thank you Bob), shows like Bebop are great because their fun; nothing more. They may not be uber serious, but their art just the same. And holding them in less esteem than other shows because of that is just silly.
" Just one question America...WHO IS FUCKING OUR PING PONG BALLS!?" -Dr.Stephen T Colbert DFA
- Eva Yojimbo
- Redbeard
- Age: 38
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- Joined: Feb 17, 2007
- Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
- Gender: Male
It doesn't, and no film does either. Watch Tokyo Story; no mindfuck, just a quiet story that's easily one of the top 10 films ever made. What anything must have to be great (anime, film, literature, music) is some kind of depth and relevance beyond superficial entertainment.BobBQ wrote:I object to the implication that any given anime must be a megaton mindfuck in order to qualify for greatness.
Bebop makes common sense? Lol. There's as much in it that defies all logic as much as NGE. With NGE most is explained through its wonky version of metaphysical science. But with Bebop they're like "sure, there's this lobster that sat in a fridge too long and spoiled and an evil biological creature was born from it. Sure, yeah, ok."BobBQ wrote:Sure, Bebop doesn't have the Hedgehog's Dilemma, but it does have a hell of a lot more common sense and internal continuity than NGE.
Bebop makes sense because we're never asked to question anything like in NGE.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
Bebop makes common sense? Lol. There's as much in it that defies all logic as much as NGE. With NGE most is explained through its wonky version of metaphysical science. But with Bebop they're like "sure, there's this lobster that sat in a fridge too long and spoiled and an evil biological creature was born from it. Sure, yeah, ok."
Well actually the lobster story isn't one of the things I lump in that. The lobster was raised on a planet that wasn't earth so I just assumed that it was just a native alien creature of that planet that got inside the lobster and grew in it after Spike got it.
If you want to nitpick bebop, stuff like how they smoke in space without causing environment hazards in the ship or how they colonized at least the entire solar system in less then 70 years are more nitpick worthy. Though these things I count as only small blows against technical quality since they'll usually only bother people who really like to nitpick. Eva has some of those too like why Jetalone has a handle on its back for unit 01 to grab.
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- Anonymous_Evafan
- Minion
- Age: 39
- Posts: 3254
- Joined: Oct 25, 2006
- Location: On Reichu's shit list...
- Gender: Male
Defectron wrote:Eva has some of those too like why Jetalone has a handle on its back for unit 01 to grab.
If I was going to nitpick NGE for something it would be the nature of the Angels. I don't care how advaced the FAR were there is no way the Angels should share so much of their genetic code with us. Don't even get me started on Lilith being the same species as us...
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!
- Eva Yojimbo
- Redbeard
- Age: 38
- Posts: 8005
- Joined: Feb 17, 2007
- Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
- Gender: Male
While I don't think others' opinions should determine your taste, I do think it's healthy to try and understand why people like something. Especially with classic films they tend to be little like what mainstream films are, so it's helpful if you understand the language, so to speak.Defectron wrote: That's another thing I've been telling people. Other peoples opinions should not determine if you think somethings good or not, thats something only you can decide on your own.
I love Terminator 2 as well. It's a great film, but Tokyo Story is a deserved classic. I must say that there's never been a film that I finished and immediately felt like doing something good, but I immediately called my parents to tell them I loved them after that.TriLink12 wrote:I've never seen Tokyo Story, and I LOVE Terminator 2, so...
There's nothing wrong with mindless fun, but mindless fun is never going to be profound, and that's the price you pay. Just like so often the greatest art isn't enjoyable because it evokes other, stronger feelings than just acting as an amusing diversion for your mind. It's a trade-off, but history has shown that art long out-lasts entertainment. One reason that is is that art changes as you change. And indeed, what NGE "means" at any given time depends on where I am in life. Great art is expression of artists and reflections of the audience. And it's because of this mirror that the audience is sometimes forced to examine their own lives. Great entertainment stops when you finish with it, great art has continued effects long after that. It rewards patience, and study, and discussion. With great art you get back what you put in. Since entertainment requires little to no participation on the viewer's part, there's not much to get out of it that's relevant beyond the fun.TriLink12 wrote:What's wrong with wanting a little mindless fun every now and then? In the same way that EVA's great for it's "mindfucks" (thank you Bob), shows like Bebop are great because their fun; nothing more. They may not be uber serious, but their art just the same. And holding them in less esteem than other shows because of that is just silly.
They both have their place, but there is so little great art compared to great entertainment that when I find a work that I consider great are it makes me rather dismissive of the shallowness of entertainment.
I assume that would be a handle for a machine to grab during construction. I'm not even really talking about being nit-picky, but just that Bebop is no less guilty than NGE of non-sensical plot devices. And that's ok because with sci-fi there's always a bit of a "suspend disbelief" that comes along with it.Defectron wrote:
Eva has some of those too like why Jetalone has a handle on its back for unit 01 to grab.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
- BrikHaus
- Dokutah Tenma
- Posts: 6301
- Joined: Feb 11, 2006
- Location: Attending Physician - AKA: Hell
- Contact:
CitizenGeek wrote:There's no way Cowboy Bebop is better than Evangelion, or, indeed, most of the series in that top 10. Cowboy Bebop is outstanding, but it's not as almighty as many suggest.
Not everyone thinks it should be number one, I can understand that. But I think the majority would believe it deserves a spot somewhere in the top ten.
The comedy in the series is often cringe-inducing-ly childish thanks to Ed, it's episodic nature means very few plots harness the potential they show at the start of the episode
There is a lot of subtle humor found in the character interactions throughout the series. It can be adult and mature. Ed just happens to be the loudmouth. Perhaps you should take a second look?
Also, what is this "plot" you speak of? This series is all about the characters. Each episode sheds slightly more light on each member of the crew, and by the end they are well fleshed out. I'd rather have interesting, dynamic characters, whose motivations I can understand, rather than a traditional Point A to Point B storyline.
and the music (excluding the OP and ED) are far from Yoko Kanno's best work.
Good luck finding other people to agree with that statement.
however it most certainly does not deserve the number 1 position, especially over stuff like Evangelion.
Evangelion is overrated.
Awesomely Shitty
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
-"That purace has more badassu maddafaakas zan supermax spaceland."
-On EMF, as a thread becomes longer, the likelihood that fem-Kaworu will be mentioned increases exponentially.
-the only English language novel actually being developed in parallel to its Japanese version involving a pan-human Soviet in a galactic struggle to survive and to export the communist utopia/revolution to all the down trodden alien class and race- one of the premise being that Khrushchev remains and has abandoned Lysenko stupidity
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