Controversial Anime Opinions

[gorgeousshutin]

Don't know if this is controversial or not, but I find that 90s anime - I'm talking about the ones commonly rated as being good - tend to have superior character writing when compared to even the best of what we have today.

[Xard]

Don't know if this is controversial or not, but I find that 90s anime - I'm talking about the ones commonly rated as being good - tend to have superior character writing when compared to even the best of what we have today.

That's like what, Eva, Utena and maybe Bebop? That's far too small sample for anything. (I sort of presume your standards for "superior character writing" means something like this)

[Shamsiel-kun]

Don't know if this is controversial or not, but I find that 90s anime - I'm talking about the ones commonly rated as being good - tend to have superior character writing when compared to even the best of what we have today.

Uh...some stuff that gets rated "good" mostly seems to get rated "good" because of nostalgia + hyperviolentgorefillednudifyingplotlholethatspoketopeoplesteenagepersonality.

This especially applies to early to mid-1990s OVAs.

[GAP]

Uh...some stuff that gets rated "good" mostly seems to get rated "good" because of nostalgia + hyperviolentgorefillednudifyingplotlholethatspoketopeoplesteenagepersonality.

This especially applies to early to mid-1990s OVAs.

Especially M.D. geist, that anime was awful.

[gorgeousshutin]

In addition to Eva, Utena, and Bebop, there were also Please save my earth, Pet shop of Horrors, Escaflowne, Basara, Key the Metal Idol, Yami no Matsuei, Ranma 1/2 and even Getbackers (yes, well-done shounen comedy series can have good character writing too). And those were just the "mainstream" titles that most fans of the day would have come across through University anime clubs. Some of these shows may have plot problems, but they all got vivid, well-fleshed, well-executed characters that can can engage the audience - something I cannot say for most of today's hyped shows.

P.S. Call me anime-ignorant, but I've never heard MD geist before. My favorite OVA from the 1990s was Macross Plus, which, while working on a sparse plot, also had memorable characters.

[Xard]

In addition to Eva, Utena, and Bebop, there were also Please save my earth, Pet shop of Horrors, Escaflowne, Basara, Key the Metal Idol, Yami no Matsuei, Ranma 1/2 and even Getbackers (yes, well-done shounen comedy series can have good character writing too).

I've seen almost all of those. As great as some those additional entries are (Escaflowne especially so, Key is quite rad too) frankly none of them strike me out as exceptionally strong in "characterization" in comparison to best "modern" shows whatever that means. I'm not saying they don't have strong characters because on average they have but I see no clear demarcation lines. Escaflowne has standard good Kawamori show characterization, Key has quite interesting and novel take on the main character but apart from that it's all 90s paranoia and X-Files mania (not a criticism, just observation), Ranma ½ is what Rumiko Takahashi always does abd hardly work of great psychonaut explorations.

Meh.

[Mr. Tines]

P.S. Call me anime-ignorant, but I've never heard MD geist before.

It's one of the notorious titles that's frequently heard of, if not so often watched

--

I have this feeling, and I expect this to be reasonably uncontroversial, that the Golden Age of Anime is 14* (exceptions for those who weren't into the form at that age).

*Also true for science fiction and rock'n'roll.

[Xard]

I have this feeling, and I expect this to be reasonably uncontroversial, that the Golden Age of Anime is 14* (exceptions for those who weren't into the form at that age).

*Also true for science fiction and rock'n'roll.

Quite so. I'm just very happy I lucked out and ended up watching many shows at that age that still remain my favourites. (Eva and Bebop still hold up for one, something like Air not so much...)

[gorgeousshutin]

Good character writing need not necessarily go the psychonaut route: it just needs to make the character's personality/motives/reactions seem natural/sensible/relatable to the audience.

Back when Ranma 1/2 was popular in the mid nineties, I remember it being THE show that dominated the FFML in term of sheer number of fanfics, before Evangelion was to eventually surpass its number. Why? Because all R1/2's main characters are distinctive while also easily accessible. It's fun for fans to play around with putting them in different situations via fanfics. Thus why the huge numbers of Ranma fics back in the day. I have yet to read another shounen romantic action/comedy with characters that can rival Ranma's since.

We all already know here that Eva and Utena has good character writing. But has anyone here ever seen Please Save my Earth? The six volume OVAs, continued in the 21 vol manga, have the kind of vivid, deliciously engaging characters that I have not seen in any of the post 2010 anime works. What about the bromantic Pet Shop of Horrors (the LA story, not the inferior Tokyo sequel)? And the huge-cast character drama Basara?

If there is no clear demarcation lines between the level in character writing in 90s and now, then how come it's so difficult to find any good character-driven animes from among today's mainstream crop?

PMMMadoka has an imaginative plot, but the girls all seem like flat, non-fleshed devices. Attack on Titans seem to me like a long series of gory events instead of a show about plot/character. Penguindrum and Yuri Kuma Arashi have proven that Ikuhara cannot recreate Utena's level of character writing. I've been on the outlook for good character-driven animes for years, but I don't think I've seen any worthy title since Loveless, and that was back in 2005-ish . . .

[C.A.P.]

Good writing is good writing, no matter the decade. There's different shades of it, but proclaiming one way is better than the other, or one element making the whole thing poor, just results in headaches.

I'm not crazy about Madoka, but to dismiss the franchise because the characterizations do not invite analysis over the sociological/physiological foundation of said characters (and it doesn't) is foolish.

[gorgeousshutin]

Good writing is good writing, no matter the decade. There's different shades of it, but proclaiming one way is better than the other, or one element making the whole thing poor, just results in headaches.

I'm not crazy about Madoka, but to dismiss the franchise because the characterizations do not invite analysis over the sociological/physiological foundation of said characters (and it doesn't) is foolish.

My actual wording:

If there is no clear demarcation lines between the level in character writing in 90s and now, then how come it's so difficult to find any good character-driven animes from among today's mainstream crop?

PMMMadoka has an imaginative plot, but the girls all seem like flat, non-fleshed devices.

So, I said that PMMMadoka has "an imaginative plot". How was that in anyway "dismissing" the frachise? I have merely pointed out that yes, it has a good plot, but no, it is not a good "character-driven anime" because the characters are "flat". If you have sources/logics that can proof how the Madoka characters are well-fleshed/executed, then please go ahead and write something to that effect. Implying someone's view is "foolish" simply because they differ from yours is, I think, actual foolishness.

[TehDonutKing]

Attack on Titans seem to me like a long series of gory events instead of a show about plot/character. Penguindrum and Yuri Kuma Arashi have proven that Ikuhara cannot recreate Utena's level of character writing.

While Attack on Titan doesn't mainly focus on characters, to write it off as a long series of gory events is a bit lazy, and not at all accurate. That said, most of the more interesting elements come into play after the anime ends.

Yuri Kuma Arashi easily rivals Utena in terms of character complexity. While the side characters aren't particularly interesting, the focus on Ginko, Lulu, and Kureha allow for more exploration into their psyches than the average series.

Gurren Lagann is an underlooked example of complex character development. Simon, Yoko, and Rossiu are well-written and believable characters in their own right, and watching their growth, especially Simon's, is quite awe-inspiring.

Hell, even One Piece has great characterization, and that's probably the reason it's still running after being out for so long.

[Shamsiel-kun]

Especially M.D. geist, that anime was awful.

No, no, no. M.D. Geist is awesome (nihilistic, so-bad-it's-good awesome) compared to shite like D-1 Devastator (pointless fanservice, highly contrived plot, nonsensical events, etc. - the only good thing is the mecha) and Angel Cop (best described as Nazi Cops vs. those Eviiiiiiiil Jews).
Besides, despite being sick and wrong, there's something admirable about a man who releases a deadly robot army on a crapsack world just because he loves fighting so much...

[gorgeousshutin]

TehounutKing. One Piece, from what I remember, starts in 1997 (at least the manga is). So, I'd consider that a 90s series too.

RE: Attack of Titan
To each their own opinion when it comes to this show's overall quality. I do not find it good personally. But, as even you'd agree

Attack on Titan doesn't mainly focus on characters

My quote:

then how come it's so difficult to find any good character-driven animes from among today's mainstream crop?

So, while Titan may have other positive aspects, good character-driven anime - the topic I've been focused on all along - it is not.

Yuri Kuma Arashi easily rivals Utena in terms of character complexity.

I've watched both. I don't see how that is the case. Maybe you'd like to cite sources/examples to back up this claim?

While the side characters aren't particularly interesting, the focus on Ginko, Lulu, and Kureha allow for more exploration into their psyches than the average series.

This actually goes to show how weak the character writing has become for the "average" post 2010 anime series we now get.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I think CGI is just as good as hand-drawn animation, and only sticks out as much as the hand drawn characters with their hard black outlines do over the soft brushstrokes of the painted background plates, especially now that CGI has becomes far more advanced and better learned by artists and developers alike. Heck, I don’t even mind the higher frame rate of the CGI, as camera pans in Japanese animation have always moved a lot more fluently than the animated characters themselves. Honestly much of the complaining about CGI (though not all of the complaining) seems to simply be nostalgia griping over how they’re not 5 years old watching 90’a Ninja Turtles or something like that.

That being said, there’s a right way and a wrong way to animated anything, regardless of the tools being used. If you can’t animate something right, don’t even bother putting a pencil to paper or firing up Maya.

[Ray]

Ranma 1/2 Jumped the shark the second Takahashi introduced Happosai.

He was tolerable in the Manga. In the show. . . he was Jar Jar Binks level annoying and terrible. The difference is I can tolerate Jar Jar Binks for one movie. I can't tolerate someone like him for ninety plus episodes!

[Defectron]

In addition to Eva, Utena, and Bebop, there were also Please save my earth, Pet shop of Horrors, Escaflowne, Basara, Key the Metal Idol, Yami no Matsuei, Ranma 1/2 and even Getbackers

.

I dunno if I would say Ranma has great character writing, I mean I like the show more for its comedy then stuff like its characters which imo are a bit two dimensional. Still better then the likes of the characters on Inuyasha though and that show actually tries to be serious.

I still say urusei yatsura is the best rumiko takahashi anime series though. Doesn't try to be anything more then a goofy comedy and that's why its good.

That isn't to say that I don't like the more serious uy movies like 2 and 4, those rank among some of my favorite anime.

[r1cepurin]

If you're going to use CGI then just make the whole series in CGI. 2D and 3D don't mix.

That reminds me of that show SD Gundam Force, which was in cel-shaded CGI, the first and only time I've seen an anime series do that. The show was chibi garbage, but I enjoyed it more than the original series.

[TehDonutKing]

I think CGI is just as good as hand-drawn animation, and only sticks out as much as the hand drawn characters with their hard black outlines do over the soft brushstrokes of the painted background plates, especially now that CGI has becomes far more advanced and better learned by artists and developers alike. Heck, I don’t even mind the higher frame rate of the CGI, as camera pans in Japanese animation have always moved a lot more fluently than the animated characters themselves. Honestly much of the complaining about CGI (though not all of the complaining) seems to simply be nostalgia griping over how they’re not 5 years old watching 90’a Ninja Turtles or something like that.

That being said, there’s a right way and a wrong way to animated anything, regardless of the tools being used. If you can’t animate something right, don’t even bother putting a pencil to paper or firing up Maya.

CGI can be used to great effect, but in most cases, hand-drawn cel animation simply looks better. While I welcome use of CGI, it should never replace hand drawn completely.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

^ I’ve always seen animation as a collection of various aesthetics anyway. Mixing it up here and there from time to time can be quite interesting. In this way I see CGI as simply another tool in the arsenal of animation.