What's up with The End of Evangelion?

[Shinji_eva_2007 [ANF]]

ok well i didnt read the rest of this thread i had to post after the first thread and i must say that End is one of the most provocative movies of all time. and also i think the death of all the pricipal characters adds to the power that this movie holds. it show the true anguish and pain they all suffer deep inside that isnt givin off in the series and even though i liked the original better this still holds a lot to all the fans ( or most of them in this case) watching it was a moving experience that brought GREAT closure to a series. at least much more than the original ending. PLUS many little facts and info in there that was added by anno clears many things up that where "unclear" in the series. over all i have to say " what ISNT up with end of evangelion"!

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 18:58 GMT

[Soluzar [ANF]]

For the benefit of the perplexed, the context is
http://www.animenation.net/forums/s...ish#post5446659
and the reference is to the parasitic nature of the male of that species.

I am in fact aware of the mating habits of the anglerfish, and have been for some time. However, while I see the applicability of this as a mataphor for Gendo - although I do not think that it is a good metaphor - I fail to see how it might be applied to the other characters who are absent, and have not (to my knowledge) been the sire of any offspring.

I'd welcome clarification from either Reichu or Shin-Seiki on this point, since I am genuinely curious. Even in the case of Gendo, I feel that a point would have to be stretched in order to make the case for using this as an analogy or metaphor.

Since Shin-Seiki claims to know where Reichi is going with this, and I am still quite mystified, perhaps either he or Reichu could offer me some clarification.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 19:01 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

i must say that End is one of the most provocative movies of all time. and also i think the death of all the pricipal characters adds to the power that this movie holds.

That provocation is what keeps us all around, I'd say.

I don't think that Gendo is a parastic gonad of Yui....that's one of the weirdest and worst theories yet...I hope it was a joke.

Well, reduced to his essentials for the duration of the journey (more practical than sending a canned primate to the stars). In humans, as in some other species, sex isn't primarily about reproduction.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 19:19 GMT

[Mr. sickVisionz [ANF]]

For the benefit of the perplexed, the context is
http://www.animenation.net/forums/s...ish#post5446659The common explanation is to provoke a reaction from her, and thus prove that he is back in the real world again - but that raises the question of "why not do something less drastic to start with?"

It could be that he's carrying on from where he left off in the kitchen scene in instrumentality, or that he is taking Asuka's last words in Instrumentality "If I have to be with you, I'd rather die!" literally. He stops when she strokes his cheek, though, and blubs enough to disgust her.

As for the dub.... Let's not go there.

Hehe, good stuff. I guess its kinda like a toss up of opinions on that one. On a more serious note, if I were Shinji I woulda bought back Asuka, Rei (although technically that might not have been possible), Misato... basically all the female characters, Toji and maybe the kid with army fetish. Three guys, like 20 attractive women and an empty planet waiting to repopulated... thats a fun time to be had by all.

Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2006, 08:19 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

That provocation is what keeps us all around, I'd say.



Well, reduced to his essentials for the duration of the journey (more practical than sending a canned primate to the stars). In humans, as in some other species, sex isn't primarily about reproduction.

But he didn't go on the journey (if there really was a journey to be had, to me it looks like Eva is just drifting in space, not attempting to colonize anything....just acting as a monument to humanity....I mean how would Eva even attempt re-entry to a planet...it has no heat sheild of any sort and I doubt and ATF is enough protection nor is Eva's armor just look at ep. 5), he got...well I think instrumentalified along with the rest of humanity. Its not like Eva was in the geofront at that point....he just got splooted in a special way.

Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2006, 08:31 GMT

[LuigiHann [ANF]]

Unlike the space shuttle, Eva would probably be able to decend slowly (using the same abilities that let her float around in EoE), therefore avoiding the friction and heat usually associated with reentry.
For a while I thought she was just going to be floating around as a monument to humanity, but doesn't that seem kinda pointless?

Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2006, 08:49 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Unlike the space shuttle, Eva would probably be able to decend slowly (using the same abilities that let her float around in EoE), therefore avoiding the friction and heat usually associated with reentry.
For a while I thought she was just going to be floating around as a monument to humanity, but doesn't that seem kinda pointless?

It's what she said the purpose of the Eva was....to prove that humanity ever existed....she never said a word about colonization or a plan to descend to another planet. She just drifted off. But if she was going to descend to a planet she probably would burn up...or be destroyed upon impact...she powered down near the end of EoE she wouldn't be able to control her reentry and would fall according to the constant of gravity (I think I haven't done physics in awhile) of the planet she would attempt re-entry. Even large meteors are destroyed upon impact...just look at mile-wide canyon...hardly any debris left over and that meteor was a big one.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 21:16 GMT

[Mr. Tines [ANF]]

she powered down near the end of EoE

Wouldn't you want to go to stand-by mode when there wasn't going to be anything interesting happening for slightly geological extents of time? Either waiting to get to another planet where she could do the Lilith thing (perhaps constructing a Black Moon of her own from local mass resources); or until encountering another branch of the same tree of life.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 21:29 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

But she's not going to propogate life...she's just going to float around as a "monument to humanity"......there is no mention of her progagting life...nothing, nada, zilch.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 21:46 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

As I stated earlier, my thoughts on Gendo, Kozo, and Kaworu have nothing to do the anglerfish. I'm not sure why Shin-seiki even mentioned it.

I don't think there is really anything ambiguous about what Yui has become -- that is, the next Seed, and one that bridges Lilith and Adam, thereby bringing both types of Terran life under one roof. If she lives forever, of course she will be "eternal proof that humanity existed" -- but on what basis should one conclude that one statement from Kozo encompasses the entire truth and somehow negates every other intimation we are given about Yui's fate...?

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the other idea about why Shinji strangles Asuka: for leaving him alone on that beach so goddam long he not only erected a gravemarker for her, but, apparently, became of the mind to kick it down.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 21:47 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

But another race of humans would just die out again. This monument is just something that will exist forever...or at least till the Big Crunch...or whatever. Frankly I think Yui is to selfish to care about propagating more life. She doesn't much seem to care for anyone but herself and occasionally Shinji....

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 21:49 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

But another race of humans would just die out again.

In NGE, humans are not necessary mortal. And Adam was to birthe a race of humans who would live forever.

Also, Yui clearly cares about human life, regardless of its transience. She is the one who frees the souls from the Black Moon, so that people -- as long as they have the will to live and a planet to live upon -- can determine their own fates.

Frankly I think Yui is to selfish to care about propagating more life. She doesn't much seem to care for anyone but herself and occasionally Shinji....

Do you have evidence that would support this interpretation of Yui's character?

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 21:57 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Well she becomes god by totally ditching her family without so much as a word, not to mention she takes it upon herself to become god, at least SEELE had a council and wasn't one person. It takes a lot of arrogence to think one is good enough to become a supreme being. Frankly it smacks of Sephiroth and the like.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 22:24 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Well she becomes god by totally ditching her family without so much as a word, not to mention she takes it upon herself to become god, at least SEELE had a council and wasn't one person. It takes a lot of arrogence to think one is good enough to become a supreme being. Frankly it smacks of Sephiroth and the like.

By "evidence", could you present something more direct, such as quotes and/or thematic analysis? Aside from Seele's own ideals -- which are a rather isolated pocket of the show's scope, I should emphasize -- I don't see any signs that we are to interpret Yui's character and motivations in this way.

As for Sephiroth: apples and oranges.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 22:56 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

Well what else do you mean by evidence...wasn't eating off Zeruel's face enough...or maybe the events of EoE?

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 22:59 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Well what else do you mean by evidence...wasn't eating off Zeruel's face enough...or maybe the events of EoE?

Systematic and careful analysis -- the sort for which MDWigs and Shin-seiki have set a standard -- would have the potential to be somewhat more persuasive than naked statements such as the above. I'll leave it at that, since this particular topic is a slightly tired one.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 23:07 GMT

[RyoTD [ANF]]

Ah, I love that picture. Asuka is next to Shinji, Rei is barely seen and Kensuke is holding a shotgun - what more could you wish for?

And yeah, it's hard to think that the picture would be a keepsake photo in a literal sense - especially with that sky in the background.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 23:10 GMT

[Seele08 [ANF]]

I would wish for some more Keel.

Originally posted on: 13-Mar-2006, 23:29 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Ah, I love that picture. Asuka is next to Shinji, Rei is barely seen and Kensuke is holding a shotgun - what more could you wish for?

:drumroll:

...

....

The rest of the cast?

Just to let people know more where my train of thought was heading: I've never been very satisfied by the various theories that have attempted to explain away the absence of Yui, Gendo, Kozo, and Kaworu. None seem to have taken into account the fact that three of them were there -- along with everyone else in that photo -- to congratulate Shinji at the end of #26. EoTV also lets us know that Shinji receives and accepts Gendo's apology, as it were: "To my father, thank you."

And Kaworu is absent not only from that photo, but from the Instrumentality that we witness (as played out in EoTV, and even in the "P3II" sequence of EoE). The latter, I personally suspect, has something to do with the unique status of vis soul among the main cast: It's, well, Adam's, and, thus, from a separate clique of humanity. Further details are vague in my mind, however. Why does Adam (through her Lilim avatar) make her presence apparent for certain things in EoE, and not others...?

But back to that photo. Based on the context, it would, as I've said, be justified to interpret this as representing the post-3I restoration of those members of the main cast Shinji personally knows. The absence of certain individuals could, rather than being somehow reflective of Shinji's "preferences" or whatnot, be an entirely neutral matter, and a very deliberate clue.

Perhaps it's as simple as this: They're not there because they won't be around for the Restoration. I.e., they've gone somewhere else.

Yui's fate is straightforward. However, Gendo's has baffled since the End was unleashed; Kaworu/Adam simply "disappears"; and Kozo doesn't seem to have elicited much attention one way or the other*. But maybe they're all connected?

* Although before he goes splat, he does say, "Ikari, did you see Yui-kun, too?" ("See" in the sense of "meet", or "meet up with".) Whatever that means...

Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2006, 00:07 GMT

[RyoTD [ANF]]

Perhaps it's as simple as this: They're not there because they won't be around for the Restoration. I.e., they've gone somewhere else.

That would kinda make sense...

It could also simply be the people that Shinji wanted to see again - but in that case, putting Asuka next to him in the picture (with her hand on his shoulder, no less) would make it even harder to explain why he strangled her the second time, as a pupolar theory seems to be that he tried to kill her since he didn't want to see her again.

Originally posted on: 14-Mar-2006, 01:01 GMT