Commentary: Fly Me To The Moon

[Reichu [ANF]]

Could the "A woman who doesn't bleed" part suggest that Rei doesn't have a period (I could say shes Sterile...Maybe Kaworu is too...)

This idea actually came up in an interesting thread, long long ago... Damn you, Search Function, damn you! If only I remembered which thread that was...!

Originally posted on: 21-Aug-2004, 15:57 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

Could the "A woman who doesn't bleed" part suggest that Rei doesn't have a period (I could say shes Sterile...Maybe Kaworu is too...)

That one's been floating around for some time...in all honesty, I never paid much attention to that argument, since the issue of Rei's fertility and whatnot is (at least in my opinion) more or less unimportant, and never referred to again in the series. I like to think that it's more of a symbolic thing, but I've been grilled for applying that same viewpoint to other situations in Eva before, so I'll stop there, heh.

As for the previous bit, it's nothing much, I just sort of resumed my position as "Master of the Obvious": when Shinji got his form back he seemed to resurface from the ocean, not to mention that Asuka reappears on a beach; as such I figured that the rest of mankind's souls were supposed to be floating around in there too. All the rest of the stuff I mentioned was pretty much an attempt to find something to back that idea up, including the comparison to 2I...I'm sure the redness that's seen during 3I is the same sort of "purification" bit, though of course what that actually means has never completely been defined...in any case, if Fuyutsuki compares it to the "Dead Sea" then he must mean that the place is devoid of life, seeing as the real-life Dead Sea is like that.

The excerpt from the RCB that you posted had an interesting bit or two, though...the "misogi" ritual reminded me of a Biblical passage in which Christ's followers are said to have "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb," though I doubt it has any real relevance to this. As for the "Red Earth" thing, there's a common saying that refers to people as "men of clay" or "jars of clay" or the like: in the Bible, IIRC, Adam was said to have been made from "dust," but I don't remember "clay" (which, again IIRC, is often red) being mentioned specifically...maybe I oughta look it up again.

As for the trees and such, I suppose Fuyutsuki's "micro-organisms" quote can't be refuted as such, but I dunno, it still seems weird to me...ah well, better quit while I'm behind, heh.

Originally posted on: 21-Aug-2004, 19:20 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

As for the previous bit, it's nothing much, I just sort of resumed my position as "Master of the Obvious": when Shinji got his form back he seemed to resurface from the ocean, not to mention that Asuka reappears on a beach; as such I figured that the rest of mankind's souls were supposed to be floating around in there too.

In Shinji's case, he got to enjoy all of the wacky fun of Instrumentality without leaving the entry plug. He emerges from the ocean because that's presumably where the entry plug fell after he ejected it (which really did happen, even though you don't see it in the movie). As for Asuka... I dunno how she got there.

As for the trees and such, I suppose Fuyutsuki's "micro-organisms" quote can't be refuted as such, but I dunno, it still seems weird to me...ah well, better quit while I'm behind, heh.

Er, what about the quotes from SEELE and Yui that I provided? They all tie together.

Originally posted on: 22-Aug-2004, 08:56 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

As for Asuka... I dunno how she got there.

I'd just sorta guess that she floated up into the black moon via "little red sparkly thingy" and then cascade down into the ocean in the same manner after the black moon burst, like most everyone else did...is there any evidence that she would have been some sort of exception to that, like Shinji was?

Er, what about the quotes from SEELE and Yui that I provided? They all tie together.

Well, yeah, I mean that one along with the other stuff you posted...I just mentioned that quote specifically because I'd imagine it'd be a lot tougher to mistranslate "micro-organisms", as opposed to the "all living things" bit found in the other quotes, which I questioned some time earlier...guess that all goes out the window now, heh.

Originally posted on: 21-Aug-2004, 21:16 GMT

[evolve [ANF]]

As for the "Red Earth" thing, there's a common saying that refers to people as "men of clay" or "jars of clay" or the like: in the Bible, IIRC, Adam was said to have been made from "dust," but I don't remember "clay" (which, again IIRC, is often red) being mentioned specifically...maybe I oughta look it up again.

there are so many versions of the Bible that it's hard to give a definite answer, but I'm sure that some versions will say Adam was made from clay. the idea of humans being made from clay is in tons of other creation stories from non-Christian religions as well (mostly Western ones, like Native American folklore and such).

FMTTM, IMO, is in the same category as Beethoven's Ode to Joy and Pachelbel's Canon in that it's used at the oddest moments (usually following a profound moment at the end of an episode, i.e. Misato coming upon the crucified Lilith, etc.) to create incredibly disturbing and unsettling effects, almost in the same way that Quentin Tarantino used "Stuck in the Middle With You".

Originally posted on: 22-Aug-2004, 04:08 GMT

[thewayneiac [ANF]]

I think it might have been Reichu who first suggested that the scene mentioned might be a Yui induced hallucination. Seeing as how Kaji was there and he had been taking a dirt nap for quite some time before then.

Not to say animals don't have souls in the show though.

Why would Yui induce such an hallucination? Besides, there's more than one appearance by Kaji in eps 25-26. They show him because he is there.

Originally posted on: 22-Aug-2004, 22:24 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Why would Yui induce such an hallucination? Besides, there's more than one appearance by Kaji in eps 25-26. They show him because he is there.

And Gendou was there too, in spite of the fact that he had his head bitten off and we never saw him Tang-ify...

I can't remember Dr. Nick's reason for suggesting it was a hallucination. If I locate the original post, I'll post it here.

Originally posted on: 22-Aug-2004, 22:38 GMT

[UltimateX [ANF]]

And Gendou was there too, in spite of the fact that he had his head bitten off and we never saw him Tang-ify...

Wasn't that just, like, a "personalized" way to enter Instrumentality for Gendou, though? It obviously couldn't have literally happened in the realm of reality, as Unit-01 could not have been there...

Originally posted on: 22-Aug-2004, 22:49 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Wasn't that just, like, a "personalized" way to enter Instrumentality for Gendou, though? It obviously couldn't have literally happened in the realm of reality, as Unit-01 could not have been there...

Yet when all was said and done, Gendou WAS actually standing there with his head missing and his glasses lying on the floor.

Also, Gendou (and Yui, as well) was absent from the group picture that appeared in #26' when Shinji said, "Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real." (But Rei IS there. HMMMMM.)

But I thought we were talking about Fly Me To The Moon? Heh, so easy to get off-topic...

Originally posted on: 22-Aug-2004, 23:14 GMT

[evolve [ANF]]

Also, Gendou (and Yui, as well) was absent from the group picture that appeared in #26' when Shinji said, "Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real." (But Rei IS there. HMMMMM.)

yeah, Rei is there...barely. who's to say Gendou isn't behind them all, and he's just crouching down so you can't see him?

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 00:17 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

yeah, Rei is there...barely. who's to say Gendou isn't behind them all, and he's just crouching down so you can't see him?

Well, hey, you never know... Generally, I think that picture might be a good indication of the people close to Shinji who will, more than likely, return. Yui isn't there because she's out in space. Gendou isn't there because he, heh, got his retribution. And Fuyutsuki? Maybe ol' Kouzou's had enough of a crazy corporeal existence?

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 00:59 GMT

[UltimateX [ANF]]

Would Gendou being bitten in half even really matter, though? I mean, Misato, Kaji, and Ritsuko, who were already dead, were shown to have been involved in Instrumentality...so those who are dead could apparently be involved anyway. So wouldn't Gendou just kinda go to the same place, regardless of how he "died"?

Oh right, Fly Me to the Moon...to look at it in an extremely broad manner that takes nothing into account except the title, maybe it's Yui singing about her flight into space in 26'.

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 01:26 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

Would Gendou being bitten in half even really matter, though? I mean, Misato, Kaji, and Ritsuko, who were already dead, were shown to have been involved in Instrumentality...so those who are dead could apparently be involved anyway. So wouldn't Gendou just kinda go to the same place, regardless of how he "died"?

Well, it's altogether possible that his death was "special" and somehow barred him from Instrumentality. Rei, Yui, and Shinji, after all, had reason enough to keep him out, and they were among the key players in Instrumentality. Also consider that we see Gendou die, but never splat, whereas ever other major character (aside from Asuka, for whatever reason) is shown turning into Tang.

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 01:42 GMT

[UltimateX [ANF]]

That would certainly be the ultimate rejection..I could see such a scene at a club.

Bouncer-"All right, every human being in line can come in. Well, that's a bit harsh, all the animals can come in too. Aw, hell, the TREES can come in as well."
Gendou-"What about me?"
Bouncer-"...no."

That would really suck, especially if you were waiting for over 10 years to get into the club .

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 01:50 GMT

[Reichu [ANF]]

And the bouncer, of course, is Yui, in her big bad half-armored Evangelion getup.

Yui "I loved you once, Gen-chan. But since becoming a deity and ruining your life, I've come to a realization. Fuyutsuki-sensei was right. You really are a sonuvabitch."

Gendou: "Oh well, I guess this is my retribution. Bite away, Yui."

:wonders how long this thread will stay off-topic:

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 01:55 GMT

[Shin-seiki [ANF]]

Well, hey, you never know... Generally, I think that picture might be a good indication of the people close to Shinji who will, more than likely, return. Yui isn't there because she's out in space. Gendou isn't there because he, heh, got his retribution. And Fuyutsuki? Maybe ol' Kouzou's had enough of a crazy corporeal existence?

Would Gendou being bitten in half even really matter, though? I mean, Misato, Kaji, and Ritsuko, who were already dead, were shown to have been involved in Instrumentality...so those who are dead could apparently be involved anyway. So wouldn't Gendou just kinda go to the same place, regardless of how he "died"?

Well, it's altogether possible that his death was "special" and somehow barred him from Instrumentality. Rei, Yui, and Shinji, after all, had reason enough to keep him out, and they were among the key players in Instrumentality. Also consider that we see Gendou die, but never splat, whereas ever other major character (aside from Asuka, for whatever reason) is shown turning into Tang.

Well, I agree, of course, about the significance of that picture, (and I don't think that Kaji is included there for no good reason). As for Asuka not going splat, perhaps, as I've argued elsewhere, that's because, like Shinji, she lost physical form before 3I.

BTW, we really need to get this thread back on topic (tries to think of something to say about the different versions of FMTTM...)

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 02:02 GMT

[UltimateX [ANF]]

Ah, yes, I suppose I should be at fault for keeping away from the topic at hand...so back to the song.

Fly me to the moon
And let me play among the stars
Let me see what spring is like
On Jupiter and Mars
In other words, hold my hand
In other words, darling kiss me

Fill my heart with song
And let me sing forevermore
You are all I long for
All I worship and adore
In other words, please be true
In other words, I love you

The way I see it, disregarding the background imagery for a bit, each line/pair of lines in the song represents a character. Or, at least, they CAN represent a character.

"Fly me to the moon
And let me play among the stars"

This pair of lines is pretty ambiguous, I must say, but it could easily refer to Yui at the series' end. Being in space and all. But that would have to mean Anno had the idea for the segment from the very beginning, and I do not know if that it true.

"Let me see what spring is like
On Jupiter and Mars"

I admittedly cannot think of a character to connect these lines to at this point.

"In other words, hold my hand
In other words, darling kiss me "

Well, this would point to Misato, in my eyes. She was perpetually longing for either companionship or something beyond, and this is very key characteristic throughout the series.

"Fill my heart with song
And let me sing forevermore"

This, I think, can refer to a few characters, though Yui again come to mind. Specifically, the "let me sing forevermore" part. In 26', we know she is destined to be the eternal proof of mankind's existence, so that would fit. Then, this could also fit Rei, as she has been "resurrected" enough that it would seem her life to be eternal. Then again, "eternity" seems to be a someone prevelant, if subdued, theme of the story. The first sentence has me stumped, though.

"You are all I long for
All I worship and adore"

This one's obvious: Gendou. His entire goal during the series was to combine the entire world into a singular being for the sake of one person. I think that shows some deeping longing, and adoration.

"In other words, please be true
In other words, I love you"

The first line leads me to Shinji, as near the end of the series (specifically in 24 with Kaworu) he is constantly looking for someone for whom he can place his trust. Having been decieved so much by all those around him, he just wants someone to be a true friend, someone who will not betray him again.

The final line is kind of universal. It can apply to a lot of people (if you think that's just a cop out for me not being able to think of someone to apply it to...you're right ).

Well, that's my take on the lyrics. Although I would like to figure out the couple I missed...again though, this is just what I thought of the song...I'm not really trying to analyze Anno.

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 02:15 GMT

[HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF]]

Or maybe it's Gendo wearing a Rei wig? (EDIT: How the heck did I fail to notice the entire third page of this topic when I made this post? *puts on dunce cap*)

As for the current debate, somehow I doubt that every single line in the song has a specific relevence to Eva, seeing as the thing was written decades before the series was created, and I even more strongly doubt that Gainax went to the trouble of building the series around that song. However, I don't think anyone's yet suggested that the "moon" in the song might be equated with the Black Moon instead of the "regular" moon, seeing as in the end everyone "flies" there, at least briefly...sort of a slightly twisted play on words by Gainax, heh.

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 02:28 GMT

[thewayneiac [ANF]]

Well, it's altogether possible that his death was "special" and somehow barred him from Instrumentality. Rei, Yui, and Shinji, after all, had reason enough to keep him out, and they were among the key players in Instrumentality. Also consider that we see Gendou die, but never splat, whereas ever other major character (aside from Asuka, for whatever reason) is shown turning into Tang.

But how can barring Gendo from instrumentality be considered a special punishment? Gendo didn't want to be in instrumentality; he wanted to be united with Yui in Unit 01. Wouldn't it make more sense to say that the, "head biting", scene meant that he was barred from joining Yui, and had nothing to do with the way he was assumed into instrumentality?

After all, there's no getting around the fact that Gendo is in instrumentality in ep. 26, and since the operative theory is that the series and the movie have the same ending, a plausible theory that allows you to reconcile the two is to be preferred to one that requires them to contradict each other.

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 21:02 GMT

[UltimateX [ANF]]

As for the current debate, somehow I doubt that every single line in the song has a specific relevence to Eva, seeing as the thing was written decades before the series was created, and I even more strongly doubt that Gainax went to the trouble of building the series around that song. However, I don't think anyone's yet suggested that the "moon" in the song might be equated with the Black Moon instead of the "regular" moon, seeing as in the end everyone "flies" there, at least briefly...sort of a slightly twisted play on words by Gainax, heh.

I know the song was made long before Eva came into anyone's mind. And I didn't say the series was built around the song, either. I was merely saying that it CAN be connected to certain characters within the series...not that is HAS to be. I was just throwing an idea out there.

The Black Moon part does make a lot more sense, though.

Originally posted on: 23-Aug-2004, 21:08 GMT