A remake or a sequel?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Shark Knight » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:50 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:

You assume that all of a story's mysteries must be solvable before the end of a work. I'm not sure where this conceit originates, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

The Dark Side of the Moon is a famous Pink Floyd album.

And this thread is and always has been silly.


At the contrary this is precisely why I dont trust the evidence despite being a very solid one. It is because of these mysteries that I keep believing something awesome it's gonna be shown or a big reveal or mind screw in 3+1.

Yeah, I like that Album. You have to admit it goes good with the theme of Kaworu being in the moon and all. At least it used to be fun until you showed me all those dots pointing and stuff. Still are you sure the blood splat its not visible from earth? Image
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Sachi » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:40 pm

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:Still are you sure the blood splat its not visible from earth? Image

SPOILER: Show
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- Sachi

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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:57 pm

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:At the contrary this is precisely why I dont trust the evidence despite being a very solid one. It is because of these mysteries that I keep believing something awesome it's gonna be shown or a big reveal or mind screw in 3+1.

Fans were wanking out the "it's a sequel/whatever!" thing from the very start. There's no mystery there -- aside from, I suppose, the mystery of why Anno would play into plot cliches so tired that people can spot them coming from a thousand miles away. The only thing he could really do with it is screw with expectations and then rip them apart, as he is wont to do. I agree that we're in for a mind screw (assuming 3.0 wasn't enough of one), but it won't be anything that most of the audience is expecting. The good ol' monkey's paw.

In any case, I'm not sure why you can't await a mindscrew AND exercise your brain's powers of deduction at the same time. You seem to be all about, "who needs to piece together anything that's actually happening in the story when I can just keep believing that the original series will show up and make everything better".
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby gatotsu911 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:37 pm

I think I'm the last person I know who thinks the time loop/sequel theory is too dumb to be true. Pointed allusions to the original series abound, but most people seem to think it's beyond the realm of possibility that the Rebuilds are making a metafictional commentary on their own status as a recursion without literally inserting that idea into the plot (which would frankly be redundant in addition to plausibility-straining even by Eva standards).
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby gatotsu911 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:51 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:He gave us all the answers he feels we need. Beyond that, he's made it clear that it's for us to make up our own minds.

And he did so by practically coming right out and saying, "THIS STUFF IS REALLY NOT THAT IMPORTANT"

Ritsuko's muted line in EoE is about as overt and confrontational an expression of this idea as you're likely to get in a film without having a character just straight up break the fourth wall and tell you it's all make-believe
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Shark Knight » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:01 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:
In any case, I'm not sure why you can't await a mindscrew AND exercise your brain's powers of deduction at the same time. You seem to be all about, "who needs to piece together anything that's actually happening in the story when I can just keep believing that the original series will show up and make everything better".

Awww dont be so mean, You have been deducting this kind of stuff for years while I am literally a newb to you in comparision. Now I am not the kind of guy that wants to piece together everything "actually you are the one that brought me the explanations and all so wouldnt that make you that kind of person?
Image

It's not that the original series will show up and make everything better but it would actually make everything that we saw into an actual evolution and progress for the characters, it would explain why we didnt need to see Asuka's backstory in the rebuild etc.. character development if you will.
I have a theory but at this point I dont even know if I should write it down since I get that you guys already came to a conclusion of what it is and if it can be contested then it's a no no. Which is understandable, I feel sort of like a teenage puppy among old hounds I suppose.

I mean I deducted the stuff about this being a sequel without seeing the drafts and discarded stuff that you guys saw in order to bring those dots together and all. I dont know if it's a time loop or if there is going to be a quantum stuff there, who knows. Like you said there is no way we could have seen this a mile a way but if we did so what? That doesnt take the enjoyment away.

View Original PostSachi wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Image

Oh sachi, you. Thank you for the picture :3
Hmm still why do you think these pieces really looked like they took off from EOE? Do you think it had a reason besides a *nudge, nudge wink wink?*
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:13 am

^
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:55 am

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:Awww dont be so mean, (snip)

Apologies. I get a bit carried away sometimes and don't stop to think about how I could say the same things in a less autistic way. -o-;

I have a theory but at this point I dont even know if I should write it down since I get that you guys already came to a conclusion of what it is and if it can be contested then it's a no no. Which is understandable, I feel sort of like a teenage puppy among old hounds I suppose.

Well, a lot of us have that "heard it all before" thing going on that's an almost inevitable result of being on a forum for too long, but if people let that stop them from posting their thoughts this place would be dead. I say speak your mind; just be prepared to have your thinking challenged, is all.
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:45 am

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:Hmm still why do you think these pieces really looked like they took off from EOE? Do you think it had a reason besides a *nudge, nudge wink wink?*


No, that's literally all it is. Apart from that the story stands on its own.
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:43 am

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:I think I'm the last person I know who thinks the time loop/sequel theory is too dumb to be true.

Nope. Some of us are right here with you still chanting that tune. One of my favorite things about NTE is that, so far, it appears to be something all unto its own. It doesn't need NGE in order to exist, and it's probably better off without trying to reconcile the two. If you want to see people become frustrated more than ever with the NTE movies just watch them as every movie made strays further away from the sequel/loop possibilities, as a lot of them will miss whatever point these movies were trying to make in order to seek out this (as of yet) nonexistent point.

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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:53 pm

Having seen how he works as a filmmaker, even if the film series was somehow a sequel to the original series, I doubt Anno would make it a concrete statement in the last film. He'd intentionally leave it just vague enough so that most people could watch the films as what they are & that a collection of fans could argue for the next two decades about whether or not the series is a sequel.

The cycle continues.

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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Shark Knight » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:17 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:^
I'm glad you exist, you deserve a cookie.

Ohh thats very nice of you, thank you! Chocolate chip is my favorite kind tought. Do you think they had cookies in evangelion? Are you also are a sequel theorist?

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Having seen how he works as a filmmaker, even if the film series was somehow a sequel to the original series, I doubt Anno would make it a concrete statement in the last film. He'd intentionally leave it just vague enough so that most people could watch the films as what they are & that a collection of fans could argue for the next two decades about whether or not the series is a sequel.

The cycle continues.


I like how you think.



View Original PostReichu wrote:Apologies. I get a bit carried away sometimes

Puuhhlease girl, you just geeked out there for a minute. Not that I have never been guilty of that. Hhuehuehueuhe.

I say speak your mind; just be prepared to have your thinking challenged, is all.

That is very kind of U, Alright I will speak my mind then but first I need to gather my toughts properly

I have one that is kind of difficult to express but I doubt it is even going to end up being the real deal since it is quite complicated. :p

The other one it's similar but more simplistic, in this one the characters inherited themselves from their previous incarnation and thus their tramuas, experiences and density was washed off a little. I am not exactly sure on how they are connected but the power of Rei was able to transcend space and time and I think that is how it is connected. Simply by space time theories that I cannot even fully grasp but remember seeing on a documentary movie about that years ago. I feel kind of silly but I think it goes with the show, specially with all the pocket dimensions, quantum theories, and space time stuff. Which I think it's pretty cool but I dont know, maybe at the end it is just really a remake to fit more with the general public and fancy name changes altought the top secret things that Anno has kept rather than the oh yeah I just changed the name cause it was cooler "to have all the 3 girls end with Nami" among other things.
It was the mystery which attracted me to EVA and I think that this same mystery is what makes me fascinated about those ideas for this being a sequel tought. Since it would kind of mean the same characters that I got sympathy with had a second chance to live happy and without being tanged.

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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:04 pm

^
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Here's some old stuff I thought of

Shinji was absorbed into Unit 01 in EoE. We do not see him burst into LCL nor do we see him become a red orb, we don’t even see him eject from Unit 01. He was absorbed just as he was in the Zeurel fight.

He’s been in Instrumentality for Fourteen years. While he’s been in there he’s been repeating the events of his life over and over again, each time is a little different though. The differences are due to his memories becoming warped, he’s been in there for so long that he’s been mixing things up and another contributing factor is the fact that none of the original cast is there to represent themselves in his mind.

He is unaware of the repeating, however his subconscious is not. It has been trying to tell him and us that this takes place after EoE, that’s why there been so many “callbacks”. It’s saying “Hey look! Don’t you remember this happening?” But he has been brainwashed by his stay thinking that what he sees is new and that this was always the way the world was.

There are four real people in his Instrumentality alongside him, they are, Shinji himself, the Rei we see near Shinji when he is using the payphone, Kaworu, and of course Mari. These people can interact and manipulate the reality Shinji’s finds himself in to a slight degree, mostly just by interacting with the fake versions of the other cast members. Kaworu and Rei have been in there the longest, Mari however is very new.

Mari is there in Shinji’s Instrumentality on a rescue mission. She is what causes the major divergence from the cycle that Shinji was repeating for those 14 years. She is there to get him out, so is Kaworu.

Their plan to get him out of Instrumentality is simple, make it so that he can get no further lost in the cycle. They wait for him to get absorbed and then put him and Unit 01 in a coma using the spear. This somehow puts his consciousness back into the real world but he isn’t awoken yet because as we know from the T.V series, only someone he cares about can awaken him from Unit 01.

Meanwhile during Shinji’s Fourteen year stay in Instrumentality…

People are coming out of the sea and the world is in shambles. The main cast and just about everyone else are pissed about what Shinji did or didn’t do, especially pissed are Misato and Asuka.

There is work to be done so NERV is reformed. Instead of using resources to rebuild HQ and the world they focus instead on building Evas for world security and ships for Lilith retrieval. Lilith’s body parts are stored in Terminal Dogma and kept under surveillance in case she starts regenerating again. Also Unit 02 is rebuilt during this time.

During this time a large object is caught on Satellite imaging slowly floating towards Earth, it’s Unit 01. They can’t destroy it and it’s currently asleep so they just imprison it.

Sometime during all this Gendo has returned. He is not a happy camper. He was not reunited with Yui like he wanted so he plans another Impact to finish the job.

Lilith has fully regenerated but Unit 02 and Unit 06 are there to shut her down with the spears.

A while later Misato is made aware of the fact that Gendo intends to start another Impact so she leads a rebellion. Pretty much everyone sides with her and they flee after being out numbered by the MPE’s. They take the ships and Unit 02 and 08.

They are constantly under attack by NERV, it goes on for years. In an act of desperation they decide to harness the power of Unit 01. They believe that since it has been inactive for so long they have nothing to worry about, if Shinji were coming back he’d be back by now, they are wrong.

Asuka and Mari take up the mission. They get there and are about to retrieve it when they get attacked. In a moment of weakness she calls out to Shinji for help and receives her answer, Shinji cannot resist the call of a loved one, he has awoken, Mari and Kaworu’s plan worked.








SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image
Sorry, I was asked to limit the manga stuff


Compare all of Mari's looks before the glasses and her new hairstyle to these.



Oh and when Mari yells about the escaped rats, there's a similar look to that in the tv series that I can't find, I believe it's after Asuka talks on the phone with her step mother and yells at Shinji cause he got her to open up. but I've seen it somewhere.

I'm making the argument that Mari is the Feminine side of Asuka, the side that takes after her mother, she looks the most like her. She's the confident side of Asuka. She's the one that attached to Kaji. She's a genius, she eats the junk food, she makes Shinji uncomfortable sexually, she's the one that wants him to man up, she mocks him. She's also the Asuka with the bloodlust like we see in EoE, she even makes the same facial expressions in combat when fighting Zeurel that Asuka made in EoE when fighting the MPE's.

In the manga Mari states that she's 16, I don't know how long the events NGE lasted though. It could also link in with the time loop theory, that she is 16 in the sense that she has done the timeloops for the equivalent of 2 years, Asuka was 14 in EoE. She also skipped grades like Asuka did.

Here's a picture of Kyoko before the insanity

SPOILER: Show
[img][img]http://i.imgur.com/64xXQES.jpg[/img][/img]


Compare to Mari

Shikinami is the Masculine side of Asuka, the side that takes after her father. It's always been speculated that Asuka's father was military and Shikinami is military too. She is the insecure side of Asuka. She's disciplined, organized, strategic, graceful she has the genuine feelings for Shinji. I also want to talk about how the military is a masculine/patriarchal thing in Evangelion and relate it to Shikinami's masculine side, but I think the masculine protest and military thing has already been written about in other threads. I also want to talk about how Shikinami is the damaged side of Asuka that is only able to unleash it when wearing the doll.

Mari has the feminine features of Soryu and Shikinami has the the body, if we were combine the two again she would get darker red hair color and the fuller breasts that Soryu had.

I also think that the preview that was shown for 4.0 is a hint that Shikinami and Mari are going to combine again, that's why they are half and half, Asuka will become complete again in 4.0.

The way it works for me is that it occurs during EoE, right before Asuka is killed by the MPE's Unit 02 briefly activates, I think Kyoko was trying to absorb her like Unit 02 did to her, but much like her it was only able to absorb part of her, it caused the division. At least I think Anno will retcon saying it did that.
Last edited by ChaddyManPrime on Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:51 pm

I'm pretty sure the hairstyles are similar for the same reason that Integra Hellsing and Luke Valentine's look similar. Or why Captain Harlock and Wataru Yuuki look similar. Character design
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Shark Knight » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:31 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:^
Only the biggest/most enthusiastic Good Sir ^_^

Wow that sure is a lot of stuff, I think I didnt even grasped it myself. But certianly you connected them very well.
I guess all that is left is to see how events unfold, great too have you onboard m8.

I do feel a little bad for having such a little reply to your extensive argument tought. :c
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:59 pm

^
Well please do comment when you can, it would be fun to talk to another believer, I do get bored being the only one on here. And ask questions, nobody asks questions to help improve the theories.
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby Shark Knight » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:08 pm

Mr. Meseeks, I am gonna have to take some time to analyse this properly before setting up a judgement or questions ans such, because it is quite extensive.
At this point I have heard everything on the theories, from the "we cant possibly know, its during instrumentality etc..." to the "reincarnated world to Mari being the offspring of Shinji and Asuka due to her "sharing physical traits, and supposedly Anno hinting that Asuka was preggers at EOE" How? dont ask me I just read that somewhere else.
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Re: A remake or a sequel?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:53 am

^
I'll share my newest one after you ask questions for that one Good Sir.
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Compatibility for sequelhood

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:03 pm

Alright the "retelling" in the first 2 movies is due to the brainwashing done by Gendo. Surface memories are there but details are warped, Lilith's wearing Adam's mask for an example. The brainwashing takes place before EoE, I think during the time Shinji ran away or after Kaworu is killed. EoTV's ending is the brainwashing, the initial brainwashing I should say. It also leads me to believe that Misato, Asuka, and Rei were brainwashed as well, and that's why they don't outright kill him or abandon him, because they understand. By the way, I'm going to assume Key of Nebuchadnezzar is what was used brainwash him or all of them. I can give you reasoning for that conclusion if you ask but it isn't a focus for me.

I think Anno is gonna retcon EoE by saying that Shinji's POV is unreliable due to the brainwashing, and that most of his actions aren't his fault, because again, brainwashed. Due to that possibility I don't know what can be real and what cannot be real. The only thing I'm sure of is that Asuka, and Misato were killed. I also think visuals will be changed

Now I'm going to pick a certain route for this, but there is more than one way to get there, like a lot more, some just take longer than most to explain, and I've procrastinated long enough.

And if you want to debate, please, PLEASE, only talk about what you see in film and television, and ideas that are given in said films and television. Unused lines and scripts mean nothing to me, seeing is believing, not seeing is questionable.

Events that take place, in no specific order

Mari is created during EoE.

Shinji and what we call Shikinami wake up on the beach together, Shinji is still brainwashed.

Only four of the MPE's are salvageable for use, they become Adam's Vessel, and the 9 dummy plugs/coffins that were inside all of them are placed on the moon. Spares of Kaworu pretty much.

Shinji is used to retrieve Rei from Lilith's body, using the Mark 06. Iruel, or whatever was left of it takes over the Dummy Plug, which causes a full 3rd impact, not a near one, and fucks everything up. It is shut down by two spears, thrown by Asuka and Mari. Shinji is sent back into Instrumentality due to being tang's again for 14 years.

Wille is created obviously.

Shinji reforms in Unit 01, safe place type thinking.

Unit 01 doesn't fly off into space, and is just in orbit and is imprisoned so it can't be used. Off Earth is safest bet.
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Re: Compatibility for sequelhood

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:14 pm

Uhhhhhhhhh.........no
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