3.33 English dub released, your thoughts [on the dub] after watching?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby Jimbob » Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:34 pm

Having seen both, they really didn't change all that much.

Quite frankly I don't think there was much behind the scenes work with the Japanese staff at all. I think they wanted to, but time, availability and the Japanese staff being busy making the next film, meant that whatever they thought they could do never worked out, Funimation finally said "Look we HAVE to get it out soon or else people won't want to buy it" and they changed a few lines simply so they couldn't be accused of lying about what the delay was.

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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby Lennik » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:28 am

I finally got around to watching the dub last night. I liked it. What are my thoughts?

That unsurprisingly, everyone whining about Shinji being mistreated and hated was full of shit once again. Just being melodramatic. At best, WILLE appears to be irritated with him. At worst, they're pretty pissed. But there is absolutely no dehumanization. They treat him pretty damn well considering the circumstances. Even at the end Asuka sounds more annoyed than hateful. It was very much "Stop doing stupid shit," whereas people here and in other places were acting like she was denouncing his existence and wanted to kill him.

I even heard someone on TVTropes claim one of Asuka's lines during the battle was something to the effect of "Shut up and let me kill you!"

Needless to say, that line appears nowhere in the dub of the film.

I also noticed WILLE seems a lot less experienced than I thought. Many of them act like this is their first battle, in fact, or like it's the first time they've operated the Wunder in a battle setting. These aren't people who have been fighting and hardening for 14 years straight. Many of them are novices. Which was interesting to me. Shinji's nowhere near as out of place as people seemed to suggest. Compared to some of those WILLE people, Shinji is practically a veteran.

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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:43 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:Needless to say, that line appears nowhere in the dub of the film.

But it does appear in the official subs:
Asuka, please! Stop getting in my way!
Shut up and let me kill you, Brat Shinji!

Of course, she probably didn't mean it literally, but that's the source of the idea.
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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:51 pm

The killing thing comes from the subtitle tracks:
SPOILER: Show
Image

It's caused quite a bit of confusion since she doesn't say anything about killing in Japanese iirc and her English line wasn't re-dubbed.

It is weird that Wille has such a green crew on the flagship of their fleet. One of Maya's subordinates was even grousing that the crew had untrained civilians in the ranks. Then again, nobody was expecting Wunder to see battle in the state that it was in. That's Misato for you.
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Postby Lennik » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:18 pm

I guess I stand somewhat corrected on the "Let me kill you" line. In the dub, she says "take your punishment."

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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:29 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:It's caused quite a bit of confusion since she doesn't say anything about killing in Japanese iirc and her English line wasn't re-dubbed.


Was there ever a consensus as to that line's actual intent?
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:30 pm

I don't think so, but I remember a few people saying that the word Asuka uses isn't harsh enough for killing and means something more like "fall down" or "be defeated."
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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:37 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:I don't think so, but I remember a few people saying that the word Asuka uses isn't harsh enough for killing and means something more like "fall down" or "be defeated."


So, something to the effect of "Shut up and let me beat you, you stupid brat!" Which is a very Asuka thing to say!
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Postby Lennik » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:02 pm

Finally seeing the movie on DVD cemented my belief that the people claiming Shinji is hated just saw that first camrip in 2012 or heard rumors about it, so that myth stuck in their heads and even after seeing the movie on an actual screen, all they can think about is WILLE treating him like he was a monster. No amount of second viewing can convince them now that Misato doesn't want to blow his head off for the catharsis of it. Once they started hearing secondhand information on the Internet way back when it came out, that was how they would see the film and its characters forever.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:33 pm

^ I agree. An objective view of Eva Q shows more confusion and fear from Misato amidst the responsibilities of being a captain. All of the "This is your fault, Shinji" mentality that I see people blame on Misato actually comes from Kaworu in the film.

And yet all of the fans think Kaworu is nice for blaming everything on Shinji, while Misato was bad for not actually blaming anything on Shinji. It's amazing what Kaworu's silvery hair, smile, and ivory-tickling fingers can do to an audience. (Likewise, it's amazing what Misato's sunglasses, hat, and low-hanging ponytail can do to an audience.)

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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:32 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Was there ever a consensus as to that line's actual intent?

Been preoccupied, so, no, I haven't gotten an e-mail off to Numbers yet. Incidentally, there's nothing stopping the rest of you from dropping him a line...

Needless to say, the literal meaning is not always the best indication of what is actually meant. Someone with fluency needs to weigh in on the matter.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:42 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:Finally seeing the movie on DVD cemented my belief that the people claiming Shinji is hated just saw that first camrip in 2012 or heard rumors about it, so that myth stuck in their heads and even after seeing the movie on an actual screen, all they can think about is WILLE treating him like he was a monster. No amount of second viewing can convince them now that Misato doesn't want to blow his head off for the catharsis of it. Once they started hearing secondhand information on the Internet way back when it came out, that was how they would see the film and its characters forever.


I've been wondering about that same thing. That kind of misinformation is memetic; once it's out there, it's really hard to stop it from spreading. God knows Eva has enough of that going around. There's also "nobody ever told Shinji anything." Sakura even says "hey, Ritsuko's going to explain some things." And they have a video presentation and everything! The audience/Shinji not liking what they're being told =/= not explaining anything.

On that subject, it really feels like there's a double standard at play regarding this movie and the comparisons to the original series. NGE (especially the original broadcast version) is terrible at explaining imagery or background lore. Adam, the Angels, Lilith, Seele, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the two Moons... try explaining any of those using just the information given in the show and none of the supplementary sources. Then there's completely unexplained stuff like the salt sea outside Lilith's chamber or things that just outright do not make sense. But I see NGE get a free pass on all of that because that stuff is just window dressing for the character development.

So why are people so quick to cry foul and blame bad writing, idiot plotting, or just Anno being a hack when 3.0 does this? What's the big difference here besides nostalgia goggles and NGE's reputation as a classic?

Edit: added quote for clarity
Last edited by BlueBasilisk on Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:52 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:So why are people so quick to cry foul and blame bad writing, idiot plotting, or just Anno being a hack when 3.0 does this? What's the big difference here besides nostalgia goggles and NGE's reputation as a classic?


Because the NTE hasn't been explained yet. Once we get the CRCs for Q and Final I think people will settle down.

Well, the people with sense will, at any rate.
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Postby Glor » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:24 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:There's also "nobody ever told Shinji anything." Sakura even says "hey, Ritsuko's going to explain some things." And they have a video presentation and everything! The audience/Shinji not liking what they're being told =/= not explaining anything.


Except instead of clarifying things further when Shinji asks, Ritsuko just tells Sakura to introduce herself, (For no other reason than dramatic flare, it would seem) then Asuka says it's been fourteen years, punches some glass, and then leaves.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:27 pm

Basilisk: You're responding to Freaky, not me, right? A quote might help the thread flow here.

Bagheera: While the CRCs do contain a lot of information, explaining the lore has never been their objective. There's little doubt in my mind, if the final two volumes ever get released, there will be plenty they leave untouched. There's a strong possibility of Chronicle being updated (in a way more complete and satisfying than their post-Ha hack job), so that's... something. Will we ever get the ENT equivalent of the NGE2 information dump, though? There's the real kicker.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:09 am

You're right. Added a quote for clarity!

View Original PostGlor wrote:Except instead of clarifying things further when Shinji asks, Ritsuko just tells Sakura to introduce herself, (For no other reason than dramatic flare, it would seem) then Asuka says it's been fourteen years, punches some glass, and then leaves.


They were getting to all that when Asuka and Rei barged in. The important thing is that they told Shinji why he was wearing that DSS choker and why everyone was acting so stiffly around him...which he evidently misunderstood as "they'll kill me if I ever pilot again." Which isn't whaat they told him at all.
I think Sakura was their way of easing him into the bomb of the time skip. Shinji's never met Sakura, but he knows that Toji's's sister is/was younger than they are. So when he meets said sister and she's older than he is...well, either time has passed, or Toji is really dumb and actually a 25 year old man who's still in middle school! She's the best evidence they have for the passage of time that Shinji can relate to. Shinji seemed like he was on the brink of putting 2 and 2 together before the interruption.
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Postby Glor » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:16 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:They were getting to all that when Asuka and Rei barged in. The important thing is that they told Shinji why he was wearing that DSS choker and why everyone was acting so stiffly around him...which he evidently misunderstood as "they'll kill me if I ever pilot again." Which isn't whaat they told him at all.


I'm sure they were, it just seemed a really silly and roundabout way to do it, especially when they were being so blunt and forward during that lovely presentation.
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Re: 3.33 English dub released, your thoughts after watching?

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Postby BC Baron » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:54 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Shinji's never met Sakura, but he knows that Toji's's sister is/was younger than they are. So when he meets said sister and she's older than he is...well, either time has passed, or Toji is really dumb and actually a 25 year old man who's still in middle school! She's the best evidence they have for the passage of time that Shinji can relate to. Shinji seemed like he was on the brink of putting 2 and 2 together before the interruption.

Yeah, but like you just mentioned, Shinji never met her (and even if they had been briefly introduced, it would've been fourteen years earlier, so she no longer resembles what she once looked like during that one frame of screentime in 2.22, as that kid being released from the hospital). Sure, he probably remembers hearing the name Sakura once (assuming Touji or Kensuke ever mentioned her during their conversations), but how does that equate to any kind of evidence proving either the timeskip or that this person actually is who she just claimed to be? Does she show him her driver's license or something? I mean, from Shinji's perspective this Sakura person may appear just as foreign and untrustworthy as practically every other member of the Wunder's crew hanging out in the background on its bridge, spewing out technobabble he doesn't understand.

Most likely adding to his confusion is seeing Asuka looking like she's barely aged a day. Her explanation: Curse of Eva. Did either she or Ritsuko ever elaborate on that statement at all or was Shinji supposed to just accept this as a reasonable explanation and move on (despite the fact that this curse was never mentioned during the first two films or that Rei and Asuka were both most likely heavily exposed to their respective Evas as part of their training for several years, yet continued to age at a normal pace)?

Then of course, there's also the matter of the explosive collar WILLE places around his neck, which somehow doesn't manage to help build the level of trust with Shinji they were hoping for. I guess I must be a rather strange guy, because if somebody is working with an organization that just strapped a bomb to me, my reaction probably wouldn't be:

"Well, that girl who's as unfamiliar to me as this ceiling must be telling me the whole truth and nothing but. Sure, they're prepared to kill me with one press of a button, but that doesn't mean they would do something as horrible as lie about who or what they really are. I guess I have no choice, but to simply kick back and take everything they say as Gospel."
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Postby Bagheera » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:28 am

I don't think anyone's suggested that Shinji's reaction to the bomb collar was unreasonable. They're just noting that Wille actually was trying to explain what was going on to Shinji, and that they were in fact in the process of doing exactly that when he left with ReiQ.
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I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby Ray » Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:09 am

We've talked the topic to death. We're not getting any answers until Anno gets around to making Final/4.0/3.0+1.0.

We haven't made any real headway in this debate about Shinji's fate, WILLE and Kaworus intention, how Misato, Asuka, Sakura etc. Feel about him.

So can we just all agree to disagree until the last movie comes out? Until then all were doing is fanwanking.

I recently saw the dub. . . I feel I got some closure. It's still depressing as all hell, but it didn't emotionally devastate and anger me like It did the first time. The dub actually helped soften the blow of seeing Shinji go through hell.

Spike and Jerry carry the movie. That's the best compliment I can pay to the dub.


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