Do you people even actually care for the characters?

[AuraTwilight]

God forbid the characters be reimagined and reinterpretted for an entirely new work of fiction telling an entirely new story with entirely new themes.

It's not like the Eva series hasn't done this with spin-offs for over 20 years at this point.

[Sachi]

I don't understand the premise of the question. You ask if we "even actually care for the characters" and then list a bunch of things you note as being different between the Rebuild characters and their originals. Are you implying that because these characters are different, we shouldn't like them? Are you implying that because we like these new characters, we must not care about the originals?

I personally really like the Rebuild versions of these characters. Sure, they may not be as fleshed out and explored as the originals, but as far as being likeable and how they service the plot, they do their job just fine. Rei's development is handled really well, and Asuka seems like much more of a badass with actual relevancy to the plot. I just want to see more development on Misato's end in Final, and then I'll be a happy viewer.

[skulkidcachi90]

At this point I only care for Rei Q (I hate Pokanami), to me she is an victim.

I really hate Rebuild Shinji, I really not care about him and I have to admit than I am kinda enjoying the idea of see him die in 3.0+1.0.
Shinji always is gonna be my favorite character of all time, but Rebuild Shinji is just unlikeable as fuck.

[Penumbra]

I kinda see the point of the OP.

I think that if you look at things like super hero comic books, where the characters are re-imagined all the time or movies that are rebooted because... I don't know. Trying to appeal to a new generation.
Well those kind of things lose they impact. If Evangelion was to be rebooted again and again and again eventually there would be a loss of impact that the story has on people, even if every reboot was different.
Every new batman is a little different, they have different stories and personalities. But I don't think anyone cares if Bruce Wayne die, because them they will just make another one.

But then again there are good exceptions, Doctor Who reinvent itself all the time and for some reason keeps being relevant (I think). Perhaps Evangelion is doing the same.

I'm enjoying immensely the rebuild. But there is some kind of greatness in something that ends and never comes back. Like that great book you read from that author who just never made a sequel.

I think the OP is saying that the existence of NGE and the fact that he watched diminish his enjoyment of the rebuild.

[Ray]

Okay, first of all. Let me say the OP is a loaded question.

But to answer the loaded question. . . do I care for the characters?

Well as a person who got into Evangelion through the Rebuild films I'd say yes. But aside from Shinji I don't care as much for the characters as I did for them when I first saw the original series/EOE.

Then 3.0 happened, and after it I ONLY care for Shinji, and I wonder if I should keep caring.

Mari was built up, but not fleshed out. I've already said how I thought 3.0 turned Misato and Asuka into unlikable parodies of themselves. I hated Misato for the longest time after 3.0.

[Gendo'sPapa]

People need to grasp that a character doesn't need to be likable to be fascinating & a very well-written character.

Of course I'm also 100% positive Misato reconciling with Shinji is going to be the emotional high point of the final film. There's a vast amount of great subtle work being done with the Misato character in 3.0 & saying "she's a bitch" or "I don't like her actions anymore so I'm done" is a bummer to read.

[Ray]

People need to grasp that a character doesn't need to be likable to be fascinating & a very well-written character.

Likability isn't the issue here. . . the issue is that Anno turned one of the most kindhearted empathetic human beings in all of the Evangelion franchise into someone who could care less about others feelings. He basically turned Starfire, into Amanda Waller.

After I saw 3.0 I was so angry at her I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle her I was so mad . . . I've since mellowed out in how I feel towards her. But. . . it was horrible in the moment.

Of course I'm also 100% positive Misato reconciling with Shinji is going to be the emotional high point of the final film.

I hope your right . . . even as I have a hard time believing you're right.

There's a vast amount of great subtle work being done with the Misato character in 3.0 & saying "she's a bitch" or "I don't like her actions anymore so I'm done" is a bummer to read.

The problem I had was that in the first two movies, and the series . . . I felt like she was the only one who would never give up on Shinji, and support and defend him no matter how bad circumstances got.

Then 3.0 proceeded to rip my heart out of chest and throw it in a blender. Fourteen years of hatred and bitterness and lack of closure?

[Arcadia's legacy]

It has to get worse before it gets better. otherwise better would not exist

[Gendo'sPapa]

I still don't get how fans see Misato's actions in 3.0 as heartless.

For two whole movies Misato has to stand by & watch this kid suffer for piloting an Eva. Then to make matters worse, her job is to insure that no matter how much he hates what he does, she has to insure that he keeps piloting the Eva. Through whatever means necessary her job is to find new ways to say "You don't like getting hurt piloting that thing? Well.... let me point out that if you don't pilot the Eva this terrible event is going to happen & we're all going to die. I'm saying this with a smile & a loving hold of your hand but I'm still guilt tripping you into piloting that robot again & possibly dying." If she really loved Shinji she would be doing whatever she can to get him as far out of harm's way as possible. But she places her job first. And Shinji suffers for it every time.

Finally, after dwelling on this very issue for 14 years, the moment Shinji comes back she fulfills the one wish he's been asking her to do for him since the start of the film series. She tells him no. He doesn't have to pilot. Regardless of the circumstances or how he may feel about his being incapable of helping Misato is finally doing the right thing & keeping him out of harms way. She's not letting him pilot an Eva. She's right to do so of course because once Shinji does get in an Eva in the third act of the film everything goes to shit & he's left even worse off then he was before.

There may be tough love in the scenario & she may have to put on a strict face for the rest of the crew - the DSS Choker is not just a precaution for Shinji but helps place everyone else under Misato's control at ease since they don't know Shinji the way she does - but everything Misato does for Shinji in 3.0 I would argue is out of love & for his best interests.

Instead of barraging him with information she is attempting to gradually reintroduce the boy back to the world & keep him safe from danger. People who misread the film & especially Misato's actions say she should have just come clean with him about everything right there in that room. Well, Kaworu & Fuyutsuki coldly & indifferently provide him all the information he needed to know about the missing 14 years & he falls apart as a result. He becomes such a wreck that he holds onto a silly concept - get those spears & everything will be okay - despite all other evidence to the contrary. He becomes a zealot unwilling to listen to reason because he's so emotionally fragile & unbalanced from learning his actions directly caused a worldwide disaster & in the process makes everything worse.

Misato is the only one who's really looking out for Shinji in 3.0 & her actions in the film are finally following through on the bullshit she preached him in the rest of the franchise. In NGE, EOE, 1.0 & 2.0 Misato loves Shinji but due to her professional duties or circumstance she still resorts to sending him out on the battlefield. You can find ways to excuse her actions but in essence she's always just pimping a kid out for her own/humanities benefit & does the exact wrong them for him. She does love him & on the surface it's all hugs, smiles & flirts. But the results always end in him getting hurt. In 3.0 she's not having that anymore. She's finally doing the right thing. It might not be what Shinji wants to hear at that exact moment - his actions have always been equal part martyr & part needy desire to be wanted - but it's the exact thing he needs right then.

Problem is Shinji doesn't bother listening & when Rei crashes the scene - literally - he hightails it the fuck out of there & everything goes bad for him after that.

There's A LOT going on character wise for Misato in 3.0 & it's all backed up by the text of the film & the way she's shot/animated. I can't wait to see how it's finished in the last movie.
Problem is - not just anime specific but especially in the cartoon medium - people rarely look past the surface of the characters to see what's really going on.

[skulkidcachi90]

People need to grasp that a character doesn't need to be likable to be fascinating & a very well-written character.

That is not my case, I never undertand why NGE Shinji was so hated to me he was one of the most realistic characters of the series, just a nice broken boy living in the hell.

I still don't get how fans see Misato's actions in 3.0 as heartless.

She is more incompetent and dumb than other thing, also I wonder why the hell she is still the capitain of the Wonder.

[Reichu]

I hate all of the characters, in whatever version of Eva you name. The only reason I hang out on the forum is because I hate myself most of all.

[BlueBasilisk]

@Gendo'sPapa - Very well said! This is how I felt about Misato after watching the film as well. We're meant to think she's cold and nasty and Gendo-like but that's not how I read her after watching the film multiple times.

The biggest point of contention I've seen people latch onto is the DSS Choker. While that certainly does seem cold, it ultimately would have been an empty gesture if Rei hadn't interfered. Per Ritsuko's words, it would kill him if he awakened an Eva (and this is important, it was specifically 'awaken', not pilot like Shinji later claimed). They weren't going to let him pilot an Eva anyway, and the one free Eva they did have wouldn't accept him. There's no situation where that bomb would have activated while with Wille. Misato says they can ensure his safety and that's not a lie: all the restrictions they place on him are in his and everyone else's best interests.

Also, something else to consider; When Misato showed Lilith to Shinji in 1.0, she told him the entire facility was going to explode if an Angel ever entered that part of Central Dogma. How is that any different in the end? The message is exactly the same: You fuck up piloting the Eva, you blow up, and humanity goes on. Shinji has a sword hanging over his head either way, but in the case of the DSS Choker, he's not being forced to do something he's protested from the beginning.

Misato's modus operandi doesn't change very much she becomes Captain Katsuragi. In the battle with Sahaquiel, she was prepared to sacrifice all three Evas and pilots in a hugely risky gambit with a narrow margin for success, but she has faith the pilots can pull off a miracle. The same is true later. She tells Asuka to sacrifice Unit 02 if necessary to complete her mission, but she has faith in Asuka and Mari's skills and their ability to pull through. "We're counting on you, Asuka."

Misato doesn't try to sugarcoat the risks they're taking anymore, but they're still the same risks. Neither of Wille's pilots are bothered by it. In fact, the only time we see Asuka at odds with Misato is when she thinks Shinji is going to be mollycoddled again. I don't think all of the old crew would have stuck with her for 14 years if she were the cold-hearted bitch people claim she is.


@skulkidcachi90: How is she either of those things? Operation US was a success with no losses. The Wunder successfully launched and took out the Mark.04 Cs, and they managed to intercept Evangelion 13 until the Mark.09 hijacked the ship. And even then they stopped 4th Impact and killed the Vessel of Adams thanks to Mari and Asuka.

They failed to prevent 4th Impact from starting, but only because Misato was not heartless enough to kill Shinji. She's perfectly competent as a leader. The issue is that they've taken Gendo's keikaku skills up to a nearly unbelievable level.

I do care about these characters and still find most of them perfectly likable. Shinji really pushed it with his pigheadedness in 3.0 but I can understand where he was coming from and why he did what he did.

The chief exception is Gendo. I don't care what his motivations are, he's a loathsome character that deserves nothing but ruin.

[BC Baron]

I still don't get how fans see Misato's actions in 3.0 as heartless.

I couldn't help but get the overwhelming impression that Shinji was not the very first person that she and Ritsuko had tested out their Choker on.

After all, they had fourteen years of trial and error to work out all of the bugs.

[pwhodges]

You can find ways to excuse her actions but in essence she's always just pimping a kid out for her own/humanities benefit & does the exact wrong them for him. She does love him & on the surface it's all hugs, smiles & flirts. But the results always end in him getting hurt. In 3.0 she's not having that anymore.

And so in my fic I have her express this herself: “Oh Shinji! What have we done to you?”

[Gendo'sPapa]

^That's actually a line I'd love for her to say in Final.

Also, when I get quoted by other members on here I realize I should probably edit my free form thinking posts before hitting "Submit". "does the exact wrong THEM for him"? Them? Come on me. You meant to type "thing".

I'll leave the mistake where it is though. For posterity.

[Bagheera]

She is more incompetent and dumb than other thing, also I wonder why the hell she is still the capitain of the Wonder.

Mostly because she's neither incompetent nor dumb.

[Lennik]

Anyone who goes back and watches 1.0 again after having seen 3.0 will see that, as I've said before, Misato has always had the captain we see in 3.0 somewhere deep inside her personality. There are moments in the first movie where she takes a very harsh, no-nonsense attitude towards him, and even there it's completely understandable, because prior to the Unit 03 incident, 1.0 is Shinji at his very worst. His lowest point, where he feels utterly alone and hopeless. It isn't until 2.0 where he's finally fully connected to people his own age where we get to see him truly happy. Shinji has had huge ups and downs throughout this film series, and Misato's attitude towards him has cycled accordingly.

As cold as she seems in 3.0, she really does have his best interests (along with the interests of everyone else) at heart. What happens in 3.0 is not a black-and-white issue where one is completely wrong and the other is completely right. Both of them take actions in 3.0 that demonstrate a lack of communication, while still being understandable from their points of view.

Part of Misato definitely feels she's protecting Shinji when she tells him not to do anything anymore. It's just that she doesn't know how he really feels about it. She doesn't really understand that he's grown significantly from the person he was back in 1.0 when he used to wish she wouldn't make him pilot. By the start of 3.0, he isn't that person anymore. He's evolved to someone who actually believes in something and wants to protect the people he's managed to grow close to. Of course, he takes it way too far and there's an undercurrent of selfishness to it, but at least he has a desire to fight for someone. That's growth compared to how he was before. It's just not complete yet.

It's easy to look at Misato's demeanor in 3.0 and dismiss her as some cold-hearted witch if you're not actually paying attention to the film's nuances, but it's not like that at all. They're just at different wavelengths at the moment. Throughout 1.0 and 2.0 she wishes he would find some motivation to fight, and he wishes she would stop asking him to pilot. By 3.0, both of those wishes come true, but they come true at the worst possible time. It's a problem of miscommunication. She still cares about him, and that will fully come through when they inevitably reconcile in 3.0+1.0.

[Sailor Star Dust]

I hate all of the characters, in whatever version of Eva you name. The only reason I hang out on the forum is because I hate myself most of all.

:(

Really hope you're being at least somewhat facetious regarding yourself.

They're all screwups, in all versions, but I still like 'em just the same--though the cast is meant to be unlikeable, for sure.

[BlueBasilisk]

Misato missed out on Shinji's change of heart after he talked to Mari in the shelter. He left without giving a single crap, punched through the wall of the command center, did some crazy shit, and then left again without giving a single crap. From her point of view, that must look pretty weird.

Lennik: If you keep 3.0 in mind while watching 1.0 and 2.0, it's eerie how much subtle foreshadowing there is. Kaji's advice to Shinji in the melon patch would have been extremely useful in Q if Shinji had bothered to remember it.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Lennik: If you keep 3.0 in mind while watching 1.0 and 2.0, it's eerie how much subtle foreshadowing there is. Kaji's advice to Shinji in the melon patch would have been extremely useful in Q if Shinji had bothered to remember it.

Goddamn it! I was just thinking of Misato's convincing Gendo at the end of 1.11 to let Shinji finish the mission, and how painful it was to re-watch after knowing the events of Q. That was just some brilliantly dickish foreshadowing/contrast right there.