Asuka helping Shinji

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion.
Gendo'sPapa
Committeeperson
Committeeperson
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 5599
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:15 am

Why help him?

Cause he's a fellow Eva pilot who was denied a real childhood just like she was & deep down she knows that despite all the hardship & responsibilities & terrors that have been thrown at him he's still just a lost 14 year old boy.

LightDragonman
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 412
Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby LightDragonman » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:39 am

Yeah, she's probably really angry and frustrated at him. Not to the point of hatred obviously, but still pretty resentful.

Doesn't help that she's had 14 years of experience over him. That's really the whole tragedy of the situation. She's unable to relate to him as he's just gotten out of the Eva Unit, and doesn't have as much experience as she does, so what approaches she is using that may work for a seasoned veteran won't work for him.

Unless she's willing to look at things from his level and ease up on the harshness by quite a bit, she's just gonna get him to climb further into his pit of despair.
Proud fanboy of Rei Ayanami. :p

ElMariachi
Le Posteur Verbeux
Le Posteur Verbeux
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 7872
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
Location: France
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ElMariachi » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:53 am

Something to keep in mind is that helping Shinji isn't Asuka's current objective or priority, her absolute priority right now is to get out of here ASAP to a place where they can be picked up before they run out of emergency supplies or neo-NERV eventually find them and decide to capture or eliminate them, there'll be time for Shinji's therapy later.

Now it's possible that they do have some interactions during the trip, while they are resting or camping for the night for example, but it'll depend on many factors: first if Asuka manages to cool down enough to even have the desire to try to talk to Shinji, just how far gone Shinji himself is (after those sleepless nights, maybe what he needs is a good night of sleep to have his brain reboot), how much time the trip will last...

So far we only got the "pissed off" and "enraged while in battle mode" facets of her personality, so maybe that trip in the desert will be an opportunity to see more of her character, maybe she did managed to mature more than what we thought and can talk to Shinji in a civilized manner and try to understand what exactly got through his head when he decided to pilot an Eva against everyone's pleas, and if Shinji explains to her what happened, maybe understand the situation and decided to be a little more lenient on him. Of course she won't sugarcoat the fact that he screwed-up hard back in Lilith's Chamber, got manipulated like a brat and that he has a lot to make up for (after all it's Asuka we're talking about!) but will try to encourage and push him toward the right direction, a little like Mari tried to do just before ejecting him from EVA-13.

But even if something like that happens, it'll only be a first step, most of the work to get Shinji back in mental shape and do something right will be for later, when he arrives in that famous place that will make him learn hope again that the preview mentioned.

What I would really find a shame would be that all the potential of having the trio stranded in the desert for quite some time to be wasted in Asuka only complaining, Shinji staying a vegetable and ReiQ observing in silence until they are picked up.
Avatar: THE HIGHEST OF ALL HIGHS WE AAAAAAAAAARE!!!
Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

Thomas68
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 133
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
Location: Brazil
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Thomas68 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:05 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:And why did she call his name in the first scene? That alone is enough to make the point that pure hatred is not a sufficient summary of her feelings about him.


I'm starting to get sick of this "mixed feelings" bullshit. Asuka's duality of feelings is something that always pissed me off.

It has passed 14 YEARS and she still didn't control this emotional indecision along with her temper, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

If it isn't hatred or affection that she has for him then what the FUCK she feels about Shinji?
I've got nothing better to do, so I have registered myself here!

ChaddyManPrime
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 3332
Joined: Mar 25, 2014
Location: Peoria, AZ
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ChaddyManPrime » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:19 pm

^
It's the feeling you have when you need somebody but you don't want to need somebody.
"Look at Me!, I'm Mr. MeeSeeks!" - Mr. MeeSeeks

You know nothing, Jon Snow - Chuckman

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 23063
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: 私の中いる自分の心
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:26 pm

View Original PostThomas68 wrote:something that always pissed me off. [snip]


Relax. :chillpill: No need to post so aggressively, it's just an anime.

Also, what ChaddyManPrime wrote is right. Mixed feelings about anything happens all the time in real life.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 77
Posts: 11035
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:33 pm

View Original PostThomas68 wrote:I'm starting to get sick of this "mixed feelings" bullshit.

Do you not acknowledge a common feature of real life, then? I hope that doesn't make difficulties for you as you grow up and enter the outside world.

View Original PostThomas68 wrote:If it isn't hatred or affection that she has for him then what the FUCK she feels about Shinji?

Something in between, or a mixture. Frustration; anger - these are other things in there as well. Whether you like it or not, feelings can be anywhere along various continuous spectra. The choice isn't simply "hate" or "not hate".
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Thomas68
Lilith
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 133
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
Location: Brazil
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Thomas68 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:48 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Relax. :chillpill: No need to post so aggressively, it's just an anime.


I can't believe I'm letting out my stress getting the best of my posts. I'm sorry everyone... :facepalm:
I've got nothing better to do, so I have registered myself here!

Stillborn
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 2466
Joined: Apr 28, 2013
Location: Huge wastebin
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stillborn » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:08 pm

Give in to the dark side. Let the bile flow through you...

:lol:
Another jaded man.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Posts: 5660
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: Somewhere

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:14 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Of course she won't sugarcoat the fact that he screwed-up hard back in Lilith's Chamber, got manipulated like a brat and that he has a lot to make up for (after all it's Asuka we're talking about!) but will try to encourage and push him toward the right direction, a little like Mari tried to do just before ejecting him from EVA-13.


I just hope she's just as willing to admit her hard headed ness played just as much a part in Fourth Impact As Shinji being gullible.

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 23063
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: 私の中いる自分の心
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:16 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Shikinami isn't Soryu. They'll be fine.


If Shikinami admitted in 2.0 that being around other people can be good, I think it's more than possible.
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

Sicarius VI
Tokyo-3 Resident
Tokyo-3 Resident
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 1149
Joined: Aug 12, 2014
Location: United States
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sicarius VI » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:06 pm

In my opinion, Asuka at the end of 3.0 doesn't seem to fully understand what state Shinji is in hence why she kicks him. Then after she pulls him out of the entry plug I see her comment of Shinji not being able to stand his own her also not completely understanding where Shinji is mentally at. Also while I praise her for remaining relatively calm(for Asuka) in that situation she still seems like she needs to cool off. Then afterwards as they are walking thru the wasteland in 4.0 they stop then she takes this time to maybe approach Shinji in a different way. Then maybe she opens up a little with not hateful feelings towards Shinji which may allow him to snap out of it. And being very optimistic maybe(unlikely) they just hug each other or something(sometimes you don't need words). I personally don't see any of the others(i.e Misato)helping him in that way(unless Rei II comes back).
"I'm not going there to die, I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." - Spike Spiegel

ObsessiveMathsFreak
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
User avatar
Posts: 2855
Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Location: Working on the Commentary

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:14 am

View Original PostRay wrote:What I want to know is, Why? Why would Asuka help Shinji after everything he's done?

One thing that 3.33 makes very clear is that Asuka has become a far more professional soldier in the 14 year interval ("mature" is probably too risky a word in Eva). She carries out and even gives orders in a fairly precise and at times ruthless fashion. She displays her old temperament of course, but there is a personal discipline and restraint which was never present before -- in any continuity.

Shinji is an asset, and must be recovered and returned to Wille -- or at least not left out there for Nerv to find. Presumably Rei-Q is also such an asset. Asuka might indulge in some slight venting with Shinji, but ultimately she is all business about their extraction and recovery.

This is not to say that Asuka is helping Shinji at all, or even looking after him. In fact, there's little doubt in my mind that, at the first sight of a Nerv Eva or recovery chopper, Asuka would turn around and blow Shinji's head right off rather than risk his capture again. In fact, she'd probably do the same for both Rei-Q as well as herself as well if those were her standing orders; because Asuka has picked up one key attribute during the timeskip: Duty.
[Became an administrator on or before October 4th, 2007.]
May The Maths Be With You.

Bagheera
Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog
User avatar
Posts: 18679
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:34 am

View Original PostSorrow wrote:So it's good enough for Kaworu but not good enough for Asuka?


Yes? I'm gonna go with yes.

View Original PostRay wrote:What I want to know is, Why? Why would Asuka help Shinji after everything he's done?


Because he hasn't really done anything. Yes, he (supposedly) triggered 3I, but that clearly wasn't his intent. And yes, he was dumb about 4I, but there was a hell of a lot of manipulation there, and she knows it. And yes, he failed to help her when she needed it, but that was at least partly out of concern for her. She's angry about his indecisiveness and general lack of mental fortitude, but that's hardly a good reason to abandon him. Tracking him down and looking after him is a matter of basic human decency. And that's leaving aside all of the pragmatic reasons to help him, as OMF noted.

Really, the question here is "why on Earth wouldn't she help him?"

View Original PostRay wrote:I just hope she's just as willing to admit her hard headed ness played just as much a part in Fourth Impact As Shinji being gullible.


I have no idea why she'd admit that, given that it's not even remotely true. It's possible a softer touch on her part might have ultimately convinced Shinji to back down, but going from there to claiming she's somehow responsible for 4I is more than a little absurd. She didn't pull the spears, and nor did she goad Shinji into doing it. He made that choice all by his lonesome.

Shinji's responsible. Kaworu's responsible. Even Gendo is responsible. But Asuka? Not so much.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

KingXanaduu
DNA Donor
DNA Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2619
Joined: Sep 12, 2011
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby KingXanaduu » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:14 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I have no idea why she'd admit that, given that it's not even remotely true. It's possible a softer touch on her part might have ultimately convinced Shinji to back down, but going from there to claiming she's somehow responsible for 4I is more than a little absurd. She didn't pull the spears, and nor did she goad Shinji into doing it. He made that choice all by his lonesome.

Shinji's responsible. Kaworu's responsible. Even Gendo is responsible. But Asuka? Not so much.


But she did play a part in Shinji's decision by refusing to back down even when he just wanted to talk. Just writing him off as a "brat" and refusing to listen to his side of the story while simultaneously trying to impale him would make anyone snap like Shinji did. :P

But, we've beaten this dead horse so freaking much, that it's already compost now, so really, until Final, what's the point? :lol:
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

transformers03
Embryo
Age: 29
Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 14, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby transformers03 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:55 am

I made a profile just so I could give my two cents.

Something I realize about Evangelion after spending an appropriate amount of time searching about the different theories and beliefs of the series is that the series can be viewed in as any way that people want to see it. It's like a Rorschach test, some see it one way while the other sees it as an other.

I'm bringing this up, because it seems as if members on this forum can not seem to probably determine Asuka's reason for helping Shinji and her role in the upcoming final film. Some see it as her being just practical, saving someone who could be an asset, or to avoid him getting into enemy hands. Some see it as her as just doing the right and humane thing to do, and help a boy who is down. Some see it as her helping him because their relationship they had prior to the third film, and residue feelings she may still have (romantic or not).

What her role will be in the final film is still up in the air. I would like to believe she will play a part in helping Shinji get over his slump, since their relationship was one of most prominent aspects of the original series and at the end of End of Evangelion. Yet the Rebuild series seemed to have taken more interest in Shinji's relationship with Rei rather than Asuka, and seeing the pacing of the films, I wouldn;t be surprise if the final film skips the three pilot's trek in the abandon Tokyo-3 and have them straight back to Will-E and/or Nerve, or whatever location the plot would need them in.

I was trying to figure out Asuka's future role in the final by comparing it to the spinoffs, to see if their is a consistency among them. If her role was consistently important, and consistently similar, than I could easily assume what role she will take in the final film, and even her motivations to help Shinji. While she was generally always important, her role is not essentially the same. She is commonly portrayed as one Shinji's main love interest, even being a childhood friend in some iterations. But the entire last movie did not give fans a lot of "intimidate" scenes between the two, with Asuka being really aggressive and cold towards. It also goes back to the fact that the film series seemed to care more about Shinji's relationship with Rei, than with Asuka. While I don't think that essentially means Shinji will get with Rei in the end or anything like that (especially since Rei is a clone of his Mom), because of that I have a hard determining Asuka's role in the final, and if she will play any part in Shinji's recovery.

Jäeger
Temp-Banned
User avatar
Age: 42
Posts: 707
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jäeger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:56 am

The funny thing that crying his name calling him baka it's something i would have expected from Soryu, not from Shikinami.

I was trying to figure out Asuka's future role in the final by comparing it to the spinoffs, to see if their is a consistency among them. If her role was consistently important, and consistently similar, than I could easily assume what role she will take in the final film, and even her motivations to help Shinji. While she was generally always important, her role is not essentially the same. She is commonly portrayed as one Shinji's main love interest, even being a childhood friend in some iterations. But the entire last movie did not give fans a lot of "intimidate" scenes between the two, with Asuka being really aggressive and cold towards. It also goes back to the fact that the film series seemed to care more about Shinji's relationship with Rei, than with Asuka. While I don't think that essentially means Shinji will get with Rei in the end or anything like that (especially since Rei is a clone of his Mom), because of that I have a hard determining Asuka's role in the final, and if she will play any part in Shinji's recovery.


Welcome to Anno's concept of "deconstruction", from the m of mecha to the T of tsundere. Maybe, like EoE, Final will be the big moment for the redhead.

I hope we won't see more than a one Rei at the same time and that leaving Rei 2 in 01'S core means the same as Rei 2's death in the original series. A clone party will be a disappointment, I win of oll those otakus with eodipus complex.
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by their side???

LightDragonman
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 412
Joined: Oct 15, 2013
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby LightDragonman » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:49 am

Who knows. Maybe, in keeping with all the formal callbacks to the original series, Rei Q will go into Unit 01's core in the same way that Rei III went into Lilith in EOE. Only this time, rather than creating Reilith, Rei will emerge as a combination of Q's body and II's soul.

Anyways, regarding Asuka, it will be interesting to see how her character plays out. What I don't want to see however is her once again pining for Shinji's attention like in the original. And no, this isn't just speaking from my Rei shipper POV. I would seriously find it depressing if after 14 years of combat, change, and maturity (physical developments not withstanding), Asuka is still holding on to a crush that she was perfectly willing to let go of. Yeah, I get it, he's the only male that has the same physical body age that she could possible feel attracted to, but that just feels like settling for someone just cause of that.

Again, I hope her role in his development is more like that of a teacher or older sister than that of a love interest. Because if it's the latter, then I'm not exactly sure Anno understands the impact 14 years can have on someone. -o-;
Proud fanboy of Rei Ayanami. :p

Jäeger
Temp-Banned
User avatar
Age: 42
Posts: 707
Joined: Jul 07, 2014
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Jäeger » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:38 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote: I would seriously find it depressing if after 14 years of combat, change, and maturity (physical developments not withstanding), Asuka is still holding on to a crush that she was perfectly willing to let go of. Yeah, I get it, he's the only male that has the same physical body age that she could possible feel attracted to, but that just feels like settling for someone just cause of that.


What is sad it's that is very posible that Shinji was her first and only love. Well, at least will now if the "eva curse" was meant to sell merchindise or something more.

Never forget that Mari hints the real feelings of the princess. The line intrigues me the most is "At least save/help the princess. Aren't you a man?? And learn how the world works meanwhile!!!"

Learn what??When? Searching for her capsule in a wasteland?? She shouldn't be far. It makes little sense.
Do american "cool" people know that in Europe only alcoholics and homeless drink wine without food by their side???

Sicarius VI
Tokyo-3 Resident
Tokyo-3 Resident
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 1149
Joined: Aug 12, 2014
Location: United States
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sicarius VI » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:56 am

@Jaeger
I agree with that, considering how Mari likes to just say plot details here and there.
Also I just wanted to bring up how Mari calls Asuka princess and then how Kaworu calls Gendo the "King of the Lilin." So wouldn't that effectively make Shinji the prince?

I believe that may be a hint on the importance of Asuka in Final with regards to her helping Shinji.

@Transformer
If they didn't start in the wasteland that would be complete waste of interaction between.
"I'm not going there to die, I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." - Spike Spiegel


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests