The magical S-DAT

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

Besides, SDAT players are awesome. I see no reason to get rid of mine.

[pwhodges]

An S-DAT? Wow! I've never even seen one. OTOH, there are two R-DAT's within reach of where I'm sitting (and I can even link you to commercial CDs recorded on one of them )

BTW, Somewhere in the Groundworks books I've seen a picture of the SDAT that had "Sony" written on it - but Sony never made SDATs to the best of my knowledge, they were Philips's competition to Sony's R-DAT machines.

[Jadley]

Besides, SDAT players are awesome. I see no reason to get rid of mine.

Mine's at my father's house, i carried it everywhere when i was a kid, wish there was like an MP3-SDAT, i'd freaking buy one.
@pwhodges They did, mine's Sony, search on Google images and you should fine some.

[Yokai]

All that being said, maybe everything about the Magical SDAT Player, including the track listings, can be traced back to his father in some way. After all, using the SDAT Player's track listings to reference episode numbers seems irrelevant since there aren't any episodes in NME. (If that is what the STAD Player in NGE was actually doing. I forget if that was a debunked and out-dated theory by now.)

I think that's basically what my point was. There may be something about track 28, however, that reminds Shinji of his mother. So by having the cassette player now unlocked, perhaps some sort of memory of his mother came back -- alongside the bad news that Rei is not only a clone but a clone of his mother.

Also interesting how they make him throw it exactly at the 40 second mark! Not sure if important or just coincidence.

[ElMariachi]

I think that's basically what my point was. There may be something about track 28, however, that reminds Shinji of his mother. So by having the cassette player now unlocked, perhaps some sort of memory of his mother came back -- alongside the bad news that Rei is not only a clone but a clone of his mother.

Also interesting how they make him throw it exactly at the 40 second mark! Not sure if important or just coincidence.

Wait, where it was said that the cassette only played tracks 25 and 26 because it was blocked? I though it was only Shinji's two favorites tracks that he selected over and over again.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Wait, where it was said that the cassette only played tracks 25 and 26 because it was blocked? I though it was only Shinji's two favorites tracks that he selected over and over again.

Haha! Maybe he wasn't old enough to listen to track 28 because a parental block was set. Then 14 years later, he;s suddenly old enough and the parental lock was lifted.

I am kidding, of course.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I wanted to go back to Kodaemon's original suggestion that Rei is in fact inside the SDAT, or at least connected with it. I don't think we yet have a comprehensive full listing of everywhere the SDAT appears in Q -- and I think we need one. But here's a few really, really odd instances that caught my eye.

Kodaemon already been mentioned that the SDAT is first introduced when Shinji asks where Rei is, and that this is in itself suspicious.

SDAT in interrogation room  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0320.jpg[/wkimg]
Misato: Shinji-kun, Ayanami Rei doesn't exist anymore.
Shinji: No way! I saved her, I know I did!
She must still be in Eva-01's plug!
Please look for her!

[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0325.jpg[/wkimg]
Ritsuko: We already searched the inside of Eva-01 thoroughly.
All we found was you, and...
For some reason, this was restored.
The inspection yielded no problems, so you can have it back.

[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0326.jpg[/wkimg]
Shinji: My father's...
Ayanami was holding it then.
So I *must* have saved her.

As Kodeman said, this is suspicious. By the way, Rei really was holding the SDAT at the end of 2.0. See qu4d's post for confirmation.

Now, Ritsuko says that the SDAT was "restored", and gives it back to Shinji. Since it's not clear exactly how Shinji was recovered from Eva-01 or the entry plug, I think any speculation about here words here will have to wait. (But going by Reichu's theories of The Sea of LCL, it's possible the SDAT was never tanged at all, but lets move on)

However, there are other SDAT instances which are notable in and of themselves(leaving aside its continuity problems in the interrogation room), and which are also connected with Rei. Firstly, when Shinji goes looking for ReiQ in Nerv HQ, as he is calling out to Rei, we have the following insert of the SDAT.

SDAT and Shinji's Search for Rei  SPOILER: Show

Shinji Ayanami!
Where are you, Ayanami?
Ayanami!
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0615.jpg[/wkimg]

As Shinji calls to Rei, we are show the tape player. So, is she, or a piece of her in there?

Now, Shinji does try to give the SDAT to ReiQ later, but I felt that the insert by itself was rather deliberate and significant.

Shinji offers SDAT to ReiQ  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0631.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0632A.jpg[/wkimg]

But above all, I regard this next instance as the smoking gun. After Kaworu fixes the SDAT, Shinji's listens to it for the first time in his bed. The SDAT is playing track 28, and Shinji is thinking about how he rescued Rei

[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33_C0824.jpg[/wkimg]
Shinji: I don't get it.
How did everything end up this way?
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33_C0825_a.jpg[/wkimg]
Shinji: Right... I saved Ayanami.
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33_C0825_b.jpg[/wkimg]
Shinji: Isn't that good enough?

The lights are dim and Shinji is obviously tired. On the assumption that it is night, and that he has fallen asleep, or is at least semi conscious, what follows immediately after this is of the most interest to us here.

In the next two cuts, ReiQ wakes, and sees the original Rei standing outside the tank.
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0826.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0827.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0828.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0829.jpg[/wkimg]
ReiQ is obviously startled by this visitation -- it's not usual and probably hasn't happened before, despite Shinji being here for days. Note also that she has been woken from here own "sleep cycle". Note too that Rei moves closer to the tank as the sequence proceeds.

I'd like to connect these two adjacent sequences here. I think that while Shinji slept, listening to the SDAT, Rei appears before a sleeping ReiQ. I think the original Rei is in the SDAT, and can "broadcast" herself to ReiQ using Shinji as medium, at least while he sleeps and is listening to the SDAT.

Keep in mind, we already know that Shinji can both receive and send messages to Rei Q(Operating under the assumption that it is her voice he hears in the interrogation).

Shinji ReiQ Send and Recieve  SPOILER: Show

Rei: Ikari-kun, where are you?
Shinji: Ayanami?
Wasn't that Ayanami's voice just now, Misa-
....
Rei: Ikari-kun, where are you?
....
Shinji: Enough.
Ayanami! I'm right here!

[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0348 im-here.jpg[/wkimg]

I'd also like to bring in some old NGE analysis about Rei's psychic abilities, manifested during Toji's hallucinations. While both Shinji and Toji are asleep, Rei II communicates with Shinji and Toji overhears. Also of note here is that when Shinji is inside Leliel, he is not contacted by the Angel until after he falls asleep.

Indeed, we see these same abilities manifested in both NTE: In 1.0 when Shinji lying in his hosptial bed, he has a "helltrain" dream in which Rei appears and questions him. Rei II is seen to have been sitting beside his bedside at the time. Shinji is also visted by Rei again in 2.0, again while asleep, though Rei II is not in the same room at the time.

I'm going to put forward the assumption that Rei I -- probably across continuities -- can communicate psychically/telepathically to others while they are unconscious. ReiQ seems to be able to do this with Shinji while he is awake, but she was in the Vessel of the Adam's at the time. But the appearance I want to discuss here is Rei( II?)'s appearance at the Tank, so I'll focus on the original Rei's abilities.

The key difference here to all the other times Shinji falls asleep in Nerv HQ, is the fact that he is listening to the SDAT on track 28 this time. This allows Rei to "broadcast" herself in some way, either because she is inside the SDAT, or perhaps Shinji. Along with other subtle hints, I take this event as a key indicator of a connection between Rei II and the SDAT player. While Fuyutsuki does say that Rei is being preserved inside Eva 01, I feel there is a strong SDAT connection as well, up to and including Rei or her "data" somehow being inside the digital tape player.

[Jornophelanthas]

@ObsessiveMathsFreak:
I do not deny that the Rei apparition that Rei 3.0 sees is relevant, but there is another such apparition that needs to be accounted for in order for your theory to make sense.

I am speaking of the Rei apparition that Shinji sees shortly after arriving in Tokyo-3, before he even meets Rei for the first time. In both the NGE series and in Rebuild 1.0, this is in the very first scene in which we see Shinji.

(In NGE, this could be explained using quantum theory, since in EoE Rei acquired divine powers and manifested as a transition guide to all people who were taken into human instrumentality, including also reaching back in time to "collect" Misato - who died before her ascendance. Shinji sees two such quantum apparations that both clearly appear "out of time": one at the very beginning of episodde 1, and the other during the very last scene of EoE (after Giant Naked Rei already died), right before he notices Asuka next to him.)

The point I am trying to make is that the Rei apparitions in Rebuild (including the dream sequences) may be related to "causality reaching backwards in time" as well, and may have their cause in FINAL (to be revealed). If this would be the case, the Rei apparitions may have nothing to do with the music player, after all.

[ElMariachi]

@ OMF :
Your theory is interesting, it has already been suggested before, but without as many argument as you.

Still, I have various problems with that theory :
- I really can't see a soul, even less the soul of a god(if Rei's soul is still Lilith's) being held in something as mundane as an outdated tape player! That's unfitting!
- How that S-DAT could even be able to contain a soul? The only material we saw so far to be able to have a soul is a living being(Lilin) and cores(Angels, EVAs, maybe the SEELE monoliths). If that S-DAT had any core material, Ritsuko would have detected it when they inspected the thing after it was restored inside EVA-01 Entry Plug, and sure as hell wouldn't have given it back to Shinji.


There is other theories that could explain that second Rei's appearance :
- Genetic memories, that seems to be the new trend in SF lately : part of the previous Rei's memories subsist in the next batches of Rei, dormant inside their genetic code. Seeing Shinji having awakened Rei II's "archives".
- Rei II's soul can connect with her others bodies when they are in "trance" inside LCL : after all Rei II's soul is now part of EVA-01, which now basically a god, we don't know what kind of power that could grant her. And even better, if like in NGE EVA-01 is made from Lilith and Rei II has Lilith soul, that unknowingly from everyone(maybe) EVA-01 is basically a completed and fully awakened Lilith, who knows what kind of powers Lilith possess?
- maybe it's in fact Quantum Rei who's paying a little visit to remember us that she's still around. Ghostly apparitions of Rei in the real world wearing her school uniform as always been related to Quantum Rei, even in Rebuild. That would make it the first tie Quantum Rei visit someone else than Shinji without the purpose to collect its soul, but that wouldn't be the only great difference in 3.0 compared to NGE, the fact that the Rebuild narrative equivalent of EoE's Impact has been stopped being another big one.

[one-eyed]

I think there is a message recorded in S-DAT. Perhaps from Rei II, maybe from Yui or if you are a supporter of the theory of Time Looping, perhaps of the Shinji himself?

[AuraTwilight]

- I really can't see a soul, even less the soul of a god(if Rei's soul is still Lilith's) being held in something as mundane as an outdated tape player! That's unfitting!

The same could be said about a human vessel; atleast the SDAT has emotional significance to Rei; it may in fact be the most important physical entity in her entire life experience, even more than her form as Rei Ayanami, because it symbolizes her connection to Shinji, her strongest emotional tie.

- How that S-DAT could even be able to contain a soul? The only material we saw so far to be able to have a soul is a living being(Lilin) and cores(Angels, EVAs, maybe the SEELE monoliths). If that S-DAT had any core material, Ritsuko would have detected it when they inspected the thing after it was restored inside EVA-01 Entry Plug, and sure as hell wouldn't have given it back to Shinji.

I don't have much faith in Ritsuko's comments, since even at her strongest, she has trouble with metaphysical sciences in both this and the original series. That being said, is the SDAT literally what it appears to be? Remember that the SDAT vanishes into a non-physical soul-space with Shinji and Rei, where not even their clothes or bodies exist. It physically vanishes when Unit 00 is consumed, and then is pulled into Unit 01's soul space, and then physically materializes.

I repeat, it physically materializes when Shinji does. That's not an ordinary fucking SDAT. Assuming the rules are the same as in NGE, that's something that looks like an SDAT made out of LCL. My God, if Rei IS in that thing, then it's literally Rei imagining it as her heart's new form![/quote]

[Charsi]

Nobody seems to have related this tidbit yet, but the time indexes on the tape when you see it playing track 28 can be correlated to time indexes in the movie.

1:24:52 - Kaworu dies

1:29:38 - Tapedeck laying on ground by Rei's feet

Source.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I am speaking of the Rei apparition that Shinji sees shortly after arriving in Tokyo-3, before he even meets Rei for the first time. In both the NGE series and in Rebuild 1.0, this is in the very first scene in which we see Shinji.

This old Rei appearance in NGE is sometimes taken to be a manifestation of Lilith, or at least the Lilith aspect of Rei. In NGE however, Lilith and Yui seem to have a far greater complexity, so this appearances isn't clear yet.

What is clear however is the connection of this ghostly Rei to Shinji himself. Again this could lead us back to the ghostly Rei in Q being a projection of Shinji's mind as he is asleep. But since he has slept before, the running SDAT is the only real difference here.

@ OMF :
- I really can't see a soul, even less the soul of a god(if Rei's soul is still Lilith's) being held in something as mundane as an outdated tape player! That's unfitting!

I would agree that something is not quite right about Rei being stored on tape in the SDAT. We've seen some pretty weird things in the collective Evangelion universe, but this does stretch credulity quite a bit.

Going back to an notion I brought up in the Nemesis Series thread, perhaps the SDAT is acting as a conduit for Rei, somehow allow her to weakly project her thoughts out into the real world (if someone is listening).

I realise the above is quite speculative, but I do see a connection between Rei and the SDAT. Perhaps Rei is not "in" the unit exactly, but there's certainly a "ghost" of Rei haunting it if you will, or haunting through it.

[K40s]

Nobody seems to have related this tidbit yet, but the time indexes on the tape when you see it playing track 28 can be correlated to time indexes in the movie.

1:24:52 - Kaworu dies

1:29:38 - Tapedeck laying on ground by Rei's feet

Source.

I think this is more on the money than anything, specially if you take into account Fuyutzuki's "you'll lose in 32 turns" comment.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Not too sure about those timings, especially since there's ample evidence that cuts were moved about substantially during production

Anyway, in the context of Rei and the SDAT, I wanted to bring up a very unusual non-sequitur by Kaworu in the moments before he dies.


[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C1426.jpg[/wkimg]
Shinji: What should I do?
Tell me, what should I do?
Kaworu-kun, what would be the right thing?

Kaworu: Even if your soul disappears, your hopes and curses remain in this world.
Your will roams the world as information and gradually changes.
In time, even your very self is altered.
I'm sorry. This wasn't the happiness you desired.

This dialogue is bizarre even for Kaworu. Noting that the SDAT is in Shinji's plug, is he talking about or possibly to Rei? Does this have something to do with Shinji being BM-03?

Make of this what you will. Food for thought at least.

[Xiel]

This dialogue is bizarre even for Kaworu. Noting that the SDAT is in Shinji's plug, is he talking about or possibly to Rei?

I think this is just a reference to the cycle of death and rebirth and that everything changes. Kaworu has tried to make Shinji get open to change. His last message being about change and to stop being stagnant (among other things) is fitting.

[Yokai]

I think people may be reading way too into the S-DAT. Unless it has a core, I don't think it can carry a soul. I think what's much more plausible is that it represents a strong emotional connection with Rei 2.22 and essentially every other human being he has interacted with except Misato. It's basically as if his whole life revolves around this tape player, so he probably has a strong emotional investment to it and it probably stirs up both good and bad memories.

[one-eyed]

I know that animism is the belief prevailing in Japan and Anno himself said that, despite not being religious, has some affinity with the idea, but I think a S-DAT contain a soul is very hard to swallow. I think that there can be a message or something similar, but a soul? It is too bizarre! Although the Evacat and the Evarocket, Canyon of Teeth, etc were also!

[Lonecow12]

The S-DAT has and always will be just a metaphor. It isn't something tied that hard into the actual narrative. It's jsut something the audience always notices and picks up on in how it relates to Rei and Shinji's relationship. If it does anything, it will spark ReiQ's memories of her old self but her soul isn't contained in it.

I say that, but if her soul is in that thing, it will be by far the stupidest thing that has ever been a part of Eva. Eva does some crazy things, that defy logical explanation, but they always seem to fit in the world or have a good reasoning behind the motives, even the fan service.

Her soul in a tape player will just be dumb. People might not respect Anno, but he is better than that.

[one-eyed]

Her soul in a tape player will just be dumb. People might not respect Anno, but he is better than that.

I agree. I cannot believe in this Musical Soul Jar and, if true, I would be deeply disappointed!