Shinji Character Analysis (2.0/3.0)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Na7e » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:38 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Which is "hope", specifically "hope that people can understand each other."


I'll note this hypocrisy later on in my post because its a doozy. But, anyways bringing things over from NGE, and EOE to make your point actually doesn't help. Considering the most prominent thing Rei has been pushed so far in the rebuild is motherhood, and NME presents a rather dim view of it. But, anyways Kaworu represents hope, and if I would have to narrow it down it would be the hope for redemption.

View Original PostKendrix wrote: Asuka can be both "Life" (good) and "Misunderstanding/criticising other" (sux, but must be endured) and still have "superficiality of our sucess-oriented society" (bad) as an attribute and be wrong about many things she does.


Clearly characters represent multiple things, Rei is no exception. And, at times they represent different things at different times. But, to ignore Rei as her chief symbol of you know being an icon of motherhood is rather stupid, and albeit it kills her role as a character entirely. It doesn't change the fact she's her own little person in her own way.

View Original PostKendrix wrote: Its very easy to go "thats lolfreud by definition" It means you don't have to do any actual context based interpretation work.


My interpretation doesn't end up in the moral conundrum of celebrating Shinji's actions even though they are going to kill everybody around him. My interpretation only uses what's been presented in the rebuild as part of its story, and not relying on a 15 year old to prove my point. My interpretation doesn't rely on an entirely faulty reading of Give Me Wings.

View Original PostKendrix wrote: The song playing in the background is about freedom and obviously ties into several things Rei said (about feeling trapped, mainly. ) and mostly related to her character arc - at least the poor girl died happy, knowing that she was worth something...


View Original PostRitsuko Akagi wrote:It's transforming into an energy-condenser, spinning all of Heaven and Earth, all living creatures into it's accompanying giant wave. To grant the wishes of a person--that was Eva's only purpose


Give me Wings wrote:If I can get one wish
To come true right now
, I want a pair of wings
Please grant me white wings
On my back like a bird


Clearly this song is about freedom. I mean clearly there is no coincidence that Ritsuko is blathering on about about how Unit-01 becoming a granted of wishes, the opening lyrics of the song allude to the granting of the wish, and it starts once Shinji declares that he's going to save Rei.

Kendrix wrote:Shinji couldn't save her physically, but I think he DID in a metaphysical sort of way.


Really I must've missed that part on account of the fact that Unit-01 made Zeruel it's bitch, and was busy in the midst of starting the apocalypse. I mean really she was moved from one monster fated to end the world to another. Not an actual improvement in my eyes. And, the fact that you think he saved her even though it's causing the Apocolypse doesn't actually help considering their would be nothing to return too.

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Postby Shakabutt » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:04 am

You know, i don't know why u guys argue about Rei and her conclussion in 2.0.

Seriously, she said to Shinji in front of the fish tank "They can only live in here...just like me"

Whoa baby, there, that is an important line coming from this strange girl...

Look, what i got in Rebuild from Rei was that no matter how much human interaction she experiences, no matter that some kid walks in her life and makes her poka poka.... she is still clearly out-of-this-world.

She doesnt belong with them, she doesn't want to live in this "human-fish tank" .

I think this makes her interesting, ultimately this chick seems like a drugged out junkie, but she is just a God trapped inside a lowly human body longing to be free again.

Am i making any sense ?, hell when you think about it she is pretty interesting in a fantastical way.

Ultimately i don't get why fans argue so much over her interactions with the other chars when ultimatelly i think they are reading to much into her, why she cooked for Shinji, why she gave the whole poka poka speech, yada yada.

Maybe she is just a GOD/SEED (and kinda aware of it) whatever trapped in a human form, and hell i even think this is Anno's intent with her, nothing more, her whole schtick is being an outworldly being trapped by some human and used as a tool that ultimately is set free and does as she wishes (like in NGE)

Again, the whole "these fish are traped and ronery" line really made my mind up about her in the whole series, about Rei 2 i mean, not Rei Q, she seems she can go anywhere from Q, either go full native with the humans or do something similar and fantastic like in EOE.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:32 am

This is Shinji's thread.

If you want to talk about Rei, there is a thread for that.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:14 am

View Original PostLucretius wrote:He just didn't know he had the hardware to turn his wistful dreams of genocide into literal reality.


It's not as if he doesn't have form that way.

In an earlier iteration, Shinji wrote:Nobody wants me. So, everybody just die.
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Postby Lucretius » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:50 am

You know, one question the "Shinji was framed, I tells ya!" camp hasn't even tried to answer is: if Shinji in no way willed Third Impact, why the suggestive placement. of "ASDF screw the world!" line immediately before he, well, screws the world? There's about a billion other ways this scene could've played if the narrative were really pushing Shinji's innocence.

Plus the fact that he felt the need to express this sentiment in the firsr place suggests he understood that something potentially mass-murdery was afoot, otherwise it's a baffling non-sequitur. "I don't care if this causes a potato shortage in India! Not that it actually would, as far as I know!"

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby CJD » Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:23 am

View Original PostLucretius wrote:You know, one question the "Shinji was framed, I tells ya!" camp hasn't even tried to answer is: if Shinji in no way willed Third Impact, why the suggestive placement. of "ASDF screw the world!" line immediately before he, well, screws the world? There's about a billion other ways this scene could've played if the narrative were really pushing Shinji's innocence.


We have answered it, dozens of times, by explaining, in no uncertain terms, that "What happens to the world doesn't matter." is not the same as "I want the world to die/end/be hurt. It's. Fucking. Neutral. He's fucking Switzerland if Switzerland was a depressed neglected teenager who let other countries step all over him. Luckily for the Swiss mommy and daddy took care of them when they were young so they maintain an armed neutrality.

Plus the fact that he felt the need to express this sentiment in the firsr place suggests he understood that something potentially mass-murdery was afoot, otherwise it's a baffling non-sequitur. "I don't care if this causes a potato shortage in India! Not that it actually would, as far as I know!"


That would be true if immediately prior to this scene he didn't abandon the world to it's fate and run away. No, "What happens to the world doesn't matter." is a statement that the world is not enough for him to pilot Eva, it's not worth fighting for, not to him. It's a reaffirmation of his stance post Bardiel. It shows that he didn't come back to Eva out of some sense of moral obligation to protect Earth. He also says "What happens to me doesn't matter." This is a statement directly related to Shinji's lack of self worth and his lack of a will to live. He doesn't care about his life, his life is not worth fighting for. "But Ayanami... I'll save her." "But" is the key word here. The world isn't worth fighting for, I'm not worth fighting for, but Ayanami? Ayanami is worth fighting for.
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Postby Lucretius » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:32 am

View Original PostCJD wrote:We have answered it, dozens of times, by explaining, in no uncertain terms, that "What happens to the world doesn't matter." is not the same as "I want the world to die/end/be hurt.


There might be a moral difference between actively seeking out people to run down with your car and merely driving through a kindergarden parking lot after three bottles of absinthe while shouting "I am neither for nor against vehicular homicide!" at the top of your lungs, but massive prison sentences are in order either way.

Also you never really did answer my question. Why this line at this particular point if Shinji has no idea he can end the world? Are you arguing that he wouldn't save Rei if he knewe whole truth?
teenager who let other countries step all over him.


Who exactly did Shinji allow to step all over him, besides Gendo himself? Asuka? Man I hate it when people cook me dinner.

The world isn't worth fighting for, I'm not worth fighting for, but Ayanami?
Ayanami is worth fighting for.


And why again is this a remotely understandable position to take? Prior to Bardiel, the universe was pretty much lining up to kiss Shinji's ass. "The world," didn't wrong him, one very specific person did. EoE Shinji may be "morally" no better, but the sequences leading up to the genocide button created a sense of crushing rejection that made Shinji's decision seem almost inevitable.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby CJD » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:26 am

View Original PostLucretius wrote:There might be a moral difference between actively seeking out people to run down with your car and merely driving through a kindergarden parking lot after three bottles of absinthe while shouting "I am neither for nor against vehicular homicide!" at the top of your lungs, but massive prison sentences are in order either way.


Good thing Shinji did neither.

Also you never really did answer my question. Why this line at this particular point if Shinji has no idea he can end the world?


Actually I did. It's to show why Shinji's fighting. Again, it reaffirms his position after the Bardiel fight. Shinji abandoned the world because he didn't care about it. But he comes back, why come back? If these lines weren't in the movie the viewer might mistake Shinji coming back to Eva as a change of heart. That he's learned a lesson and now thinks the world is worth fighting for. By throwing these three lines in the movie tells us that Shinji hasn't learned some grand lesson, he hasn't had a change of heart. He's not fighting for himself, Nerv, or the world, he's fighting for Rei. Misato's lines then reinforce this message, "You're doing this for your own wishes!"

Are you arguing that he wouldn't save Rei if he knewe whole truth?


What do you mean the whole truth? As in if he knew the full consequences of saving Rei? Yes, that is exactly what I, and I think others, are arguing: If Shinji knew saving Rei would result in global scale destruction and the death of millions, if not billions, of people Shinji would not have saved Rei.

Who exactly did Shinji allow to step all over him, besides Gendo himself? Asuka? Man I hate it when people cook me dinner.


Shinji has a habit of letting people step on him because he thinks he deserves it, low self worth and all that. Obviously there's Gendo but you also have Touji in 1.0, and you have Asuka in her shenanigans. And when he does finally stand up for himself by leaving Wille in 3.0 you guys all jump on him about it.

Prior to Bardiel, the universe was pretty much lining up to kiss Shinji's ass. "The world," didn't wrong him, one very specific person did.


I'm just gonna repost what I said two weeks ago.

1. Mom Dead
2. Father abandoned him
3. Weight of the world put on his shoulders
4. Ethically intimidated into piloting a machine which, when damaged, causes him pain
5. Friend (Asuka) brutally hurt

You say "Prior to Bardiel" like having your parents abandon you is some minor thing, easy to write off. "Oh your parents just abandoned you, not like that leaves you with long lasting emotional scars and causes unhealthy warps in the development of your psyche or anything."

But that's not your question, that's just your drastically simplified opinion of Shinji's circumstance that demonstrates you clearly aren't capable of empathizing with him, even before 3I.

And why again is this a remotely understandable position to take?


Why is it understandable? Why is it understandable that someone who's depressed doesn't care about the world or themselves? Are you... are you honestly asking why it's understandable that someone who is depressed doesn't care about the other few billion people on this rock?
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Postby Na7e » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:55 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:What do you mean the whole truth? As in if he knew the full consequences of saving Rei? Yes, that is exactly what I, and I think others, are arguing: If Shinji knew saving Rei would result in global scale destruction and the death of millions, if not billions, of people Shinji would not have saved Rei.


Because people in the middle of a temper tantrum are so rational. If someone told Shinji he was going to end the world...he'd probably tell them to shut the hell up, and continue on with what he was doing. What a nice guy.

View Original PostCJD wrote:You say "Prior to Bardiel" like having your parents abandon you is some minor thing, easy to write off.


He says prior to Bardiel because everything was going right for Shinji. Misato was nice to him. Kaji was a somewhat father figure. Weird relationship with Rei. Possibly reconciliation with his father. Asuka doesn't hate him anymore. Prior, to Unit-03 debacle Shinji's life was looking up. Of, course he throws it all away just because his dad doesn't like him.

View Original PostCJD wrote:Are you... are you honestly asking why it's understandable that someone who is depressed doesn't care about the other few billion people on this rock?


The fact you think Shinji was depressed towards the end of 2.0, I really don't think your reading his character well at all.

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Postby pwhodges » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:05 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:Why is it understandable that someone who's depressed doesn't care about the world or themselves? Are you... are you honestly asking why it's understandable that someone who is depressed doesn't care about the other few billion people on this rock?

Without being any more specific, you have to remember that there are parts of society in some countries that do not recognise depression, let alone any more serious mental condition, as being illnesses that can be excused and even treated; people brought up in these places have often been brought up simply to believe that such people (the depressed and the mentally ill) are wimps who should "man up". I have always thought that this major division in society (Western society, at least) is responsible for this specific divergence in the interpretation of Evangelion (and similar divergences elsewhere also); and since the different views go back to people's most fundamental upbringing, they are hardly ever successfully changed by argument or example.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:32 pm

pwhodges: Keep in mind that a lot of the same people who've long seen the end of 2.0 as more bad than good, and fully appreciate the "consequences" direction that 3.0 has taken, relate well to NGE!Shinji and the depiction of his depression.

Also, from what I understand, general audience reception of Shinji in Japan tends to be much more accepting and understanding than in Western countries, despite Western countries hypothetically being ahead of the game so far as recognition of psychological woes goes.

View Original PostNa7e wrote:The fact you think Shinji was depressed towards the end of 2.0, I really don't think your reading his character well at all.

Might be time to watch the movie again, Na7e.
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Postby MitsumuraKun51196 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:16 pm

From what it seems the organazations don't want Shinji to have some kind of love and keep him a pawn but love and chereshment will probably help him follow orders and pilot the eva and to make it his choice. So he doesn't have to be pushed around any more
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Postby Darkwing » Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:00 pm

View Original PostMitsumuraKun51196 wrote:From what it seems the organazations don't want Shinji to have some kind of love and keep him a pawn but love and chereshment will probably help him follow orders and pilot the eva and to make it his choice. So he doesn't have to be pushed around any more


Oh I wouldn't say that Gendo doesn't want Shinji to have love. Getting Shinji and Rei closer was part of his plan, and Shinji starting 3I by ripping her out of Zuriel worked out for his plans. And Shinji does care about Asuka. He was screaming about how Gendo should loose someone he cares about after thinking he killed Asuka.

Shinji has a very low opinion of himself, you have to remember that too. In the original that was really established with his reaction to the apology punch he got on Toji. The freaking out and yelling that he's the one who should have been punched. That is not the reaction of a person who doesn't care if he hurts others, as long as he is fine. But that's original flavor Shinji, so I'm not sure how applicable that is to Rebuild Shinji.
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Postby MitsumuraKun51196 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:18 am

Oh that's right from the series. Man they cut a lot of shit
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Postby CyberXIII » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:52 am

Dear Lord, I swore I wouldn't go back in here again....Sigh.

*Cracks knuckles*

Where to begin....

First, I'm just going to say this. Pretend you just woke up from a coma. You're been effectively dead for quite a while, and you're disoriented. You know, that feeling you get when you wake up from a deep sleep, and don't know which way is left. You're flailing about, and suddenly you see a familiar face. An old friend you knew from before your sleep. "Hooray!", you might say. "Someone who can tell me all about what happened while I was asleep!"

And then she straps a bomb to your throat.

You're horrified, understandably, and decide to reach out to another friend, one you thought was long dead. Surely, after fighting together with her and trying to be nice to her, despite physical violence on her part "Yay.", you might say. She's alive, and I can let the guilt from being partially responsible for your death go!" She basically tells you she thinks you're the scum of the universe and lower than dog shit.

You leave, and are basically treated like the second coming of Stalin. I realize that's an exaggeration, but please, see past the goofy dialogue to the point here.

Justifications and excuses aside, Shinji would never have left WILLE if they hadn't decided to treat him like a baby-faced extension of his father. He doesn't want genocide, he doesn't want to kill anyone, and he's certainly not the evil bastard that certain members of this forum seem to want to paint him as.

He's a scared, mentally unstable 14 year old trying desperately to piece his life back together, only to find that he's lost every meaningful relationship he ever had due to his own recklessness and his father's manipulations.

Everything he does in 3.0 is a result of WILLE treating him like dog shit when, as far as he knows, yesterday he just saved the Rei, and possibly the world, from an alien monstrostity AGAIN.

Speaking of 2.0's climax, I'm going to take the idealistic route instead of the cynical one people keep pushing here. Yes, Shinji said, and I quote:

Shinji wrote: I don't care what happens to me. I don't care what happens to the world. But I'm bringing Rei back... I promise I'll save you, Rei... EVEN IF IT'S THE LAST THING I DO!!!


The cynics would argue that Shinji's saying "FUCK THE WORLD, I DON'T CARE ANYMORE. LET ME HAVE MY DOLL ALREADY!" Again, hyperbole, but you see what I'm getting at here. I would argue it's more like "Finally, I see clearly! I have something to fight for, someone I care about more than anything else! I can do something without being told to!" Shinji doesn't want to cause genocide, he just wants to save someone he [s]loves[/s] has strong feelings for. EVA-01 was practically driving itself after Zeruel got smashed. I highly doubt that Shinji, who's spent the previous two movies protecting humanity, would suddenly make an about-face to blowing up the rest of it.

Regardless of his reasons, the fact that he has never left for good has to mean something. Yes, Shinji ran away more than once, and personally I can't blame him. The kid's a basket case even without the EVA/Angel-related problems ; dead mother, monstrous father, roommate that slaps him around on a regular basis, and a guardian that he practically has to take care of himself. Someone with his issues would've put a bullet in his head years ago....but he hasn't. He had a golden opportunity to kill himself in 1.0, and again in 2.0....but he hasn't. That has to count for something.

Now, that said, I have to be objective. Shinji dun goofed.

Third Impact was a horrific disaster that nearly wiped out what fragments of humanity were left after Gendo set off the Second one. Whether Shinji meant to or not, that kind of mistake is inexcusable, and in any other setting we'd all be howling for the responsible party's blood. Hell, people in this thread would probably shoot Shinji on sight if he was real.

With that out of the way, I can get back to the thread topic proper. Shinji finds out he caused an Impact and is horrified by it. Someone as callous and stupid as the fans seem determined to label him would not have cared in the least about setting off 3I. He's no madman like his father, and he's no selfish bastard either. If he was he wouldn't have bothered to save Rei and the rest of NERV from Zeruel, nor would he have agreed to pilot EVA-01 in 1.0 either. I know someone's going to bring up his egocentric rant in the previous scene, but he's entirely justified in blowing up at his deadbeat dad there. I've seen parents get crucified for less than what Gendo's (and Yui, for that matter) done to Shinji. Same with his rant in 2.0 either; someone earlier pointed out what Shinji said to Gendo was horrendously cruel...but Gendo deserves it and more.

Getting back to the point, Shinji finds out he didn't save Rei on top of everything else and his heart probably shattered inside. Everyone he ever cared about either hates him, wants nothing to do with him, or is dead. His worst nightmares have come true; he's stuck in the middle of the ocean and everyone he ever cared about hates him for something that really is his fault. He probably doesn't have much to live for at this point.

Then a light of hope shows up. Rei takes him back to his father. And then Shinji meets Kaworu, who tells him that there's a way to fix all this. Had WILLE bothered to warn Shinji that his father was a genocidal madman and the one everyone's really angry with, that might not have happened, but they didn't. Now Shinji's about to hand his dad exactly what he needs to blow up the world AGAIN.

*Points to WILLE* Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen. Psychologically torturing a 14 year old boy for something that's only technically his fault and they all had a hand in anyway.

I'm going to be in the minority position on this, but I would just like to point out something. Back before the NERV/WILLE civil war, everyone was just fine with running a pack of mentally unstable teenagers into the ground as long as they got to keep sucking air. Before you all say the standard cliched objection, I know they had no choice. I get that, and it sucks. What bothers me is that we barely see anyone make more than a token protest about it throughout all three movies, nor do we see them researching alternate means of fending off the Angels. At least in the original series we had Jet Alone. The closest thing we got to that was the Dummy System and that was an abject failure. This oversight is terrifying, especially now that in 3.0 we found out that those children will be trapped in their pre-teen bodies for the rest of their lives, and one of them is literally being held together with duct tape. Now, that horrific setup has blown up in their faces and they all have the gall get mad at one of the teenagers. The hypocrisy is disgusting. I know there's some pretty good justification behind it, but Anno didn't bother to flesh that out so I won't pay it any attention either.

Now, as for the spears scene....oy, it's the hospital all over again.

Shinji does not know that the Spears are going to set off another Impact. I cannot stress this enough. Shinji does not want anyone else to die. Kaworu has told him that if he does nothing, you know, like everyone here says he should, the human race will go extinct. On top of that he tells him that there's a way to give everyone a future. Shinji immediately agrees to help him, but is so desperate at this point that its made him stubborn. Yes, Shinji should have listened to Kaworu's warning. I get that. But ignoring Kaworu's vague warning does not mean that Shinji wants to commit genocide.

Shinji just wants things to be as they were; that is to say, Shinji wants his friends and family to STOP FUCKING TORTURING HIM. He wants his life back. He wants to fix the planet so Misato won't hate him, Asuka won't hate him, and quite possibly so Gendo won't hate him. (Nobody told him the title is You Can (Not) Redo.) Everyone here seems to think that his motivations here count for nothing, which is kinda dumb considering the main draw of this franchise is the character interactions. Hell, look at his reaction right after EVA 13 locks both him and Kaworu out and it starts up 4th Impact! If he had a pistol he'd have shot himself then and there to stop it. He does not want to kill anyone, he just wants peace and happiness.

How selfish of him, really, to act like a human being.

He's not being willfully stupid about the spears, he's being exactly what we all wanted him to be in NGE. We all wanted to see him shine and assert himself. Everyone outside of this forum cheered when 2.0's ending happened; well, before the over-analyzing kicked in. He finally acted the part of a hero and saved his love interest from certain doom. The same thing pops up here in 3.0; he's found a way to get his life back in order, and no one is going to stop him. That kind of determination would work in just about any other setting. No one told the boy Anno don't like it when Shinji gets happy.

These views aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, mind you. I'm not going to pretend I've watched this as the shades of grey it should be seen as. I like Shinji far more than I should. He's an interesting character, and fun to watch. I'm also aware that EVA isn't supposed to be an idealistic series. I'm much more cynical than this; you all bring out the idealist in me. Or maybe it's just that after NGE and the original movies, I was enjoying seeing my old high school friends finally getting their lives on track...until this crap happened.
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Postby Na7e » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:19 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Might be time to watch the movie again, Na7e.


Ohh....I did. Shinji just comes off as nothing more than a petulant brat. I don't see depression towards the end of 2.0...I see a child in the middle of a snit that quietly simmers until he finally blows up in a massive temper tantrum.
Last edited by Na7e on Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:34 am

View Original PostCyberXIII wrote:He's not being willfully stupid about the spears, he's being exactly what we all wanted him to be in NGE. We all wanted to see him shine and assert himself. Everyone outside of this forum cheered when 2.0's ending happened;

Don't say "all" and then clarify "all" as "everybody outside this forum". :p

I was enjoying seeing my old high school friends finally getting their lives on track...until this crap happened.

It was already happening in 2.0, but people saw what they wanted to see and ignored the warning signs. (Insert any number of Anno image macros here.)

My general feelings regarding this thread at this point: The back-and-forth between either justifying/defending Shinji's actions and behavior, or decrying/villifying it, is about as productive here as it in the film. Shinji isn't going to get any further ahead in his personal journey by trying to justify his mistakes (understanding them, yes; defending them, no, not really) than he is by being considered little more than a subhuman apocalypse machine.

And especially since the story has made it explicitly clear that Shinji is guilty of what it's described as "sin" (albeit leaving the deeper digging up to us, as it rightfully should), all of the arguing about "who's really to blame for what, or how much, etc., etc." seems more fruitless than ever. Why is this conversation so obsessed with attributing blame, at the expense of so much else?

I nearly suspect that Anno is intentionally zeroing in on the human tendency to evade the acceptance of responsibility -- the human psyche is a masterful artist in this regard... --, and I'm eager to see where he takes this.
Last edited by Reichu on Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:45 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:It was already happening in 2.0, but people saw what they wanted to see and ignored the warning signs. (Insert any number of Anno image macros here.)

I'm still unconvinced about the scale of planning, I agree that Anno probably wanted to cover the topic of responsibility, I was certainly expecting something about it, but Q looks like a real exaggeration/overdoing compared to any possible warning sign.
View Original PostReichu wrote:Why is this conversation so obsessed with attributing blame, at the expense of so much else?

I nearly suspect that Anno is intentionally zeroing in on the human tendency to evade the acceptance of responsibility -- the human psyche is a masterful artist in this regard... --, and I'm eager to see where he takes this.

I completely agree on this point though.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:58 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:I'm still unconvinced about the scale of planning, I agree that Anno probably wanted to cover the topic of responsibility, I was certainly expecting something about it, but Q looks like a real exaggeration/overdoing compared to any possible warning sign.

Yeah, the scale of 3I's effects and damage are a bit WTF compared to what we saw in 2.0. On the other hand, what we actually saw in 2.0 didn't feel (to me, anyway) perfectly matched in "scale" to everything that Ritsuko was describing in her colorful exposition, so in a sense it balances out. :devil:

View Original PostNa7e wrote:I don't see depression towards the end of 2.0...I see a child in the middle of a snit that quietly simmers until he finally blows up in a massive temper tantrum.

Expressing anger in a childish manner hardly excludes depression from the psychological menu. (In my personal experience, they go together devastatingly well...)
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Postby CJD » Tue Jan 01, 2013 3:56 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Expressing anger in a childish manner hardly excludes depression from the psychological menu. (In my personal experience, they go together devastatingly well...)


Fucking. This.

@pwhodges I totally understand that. I grew up in a bit of a backwater where mental illness was either stigmatized or not believed in by most of the local population. The thing is I expect better of people here.

Anyway, I agree that the current back and forth isn't going anywhere, and since I'm not sure I could restrain myself should it continue, I'll kindly drop back out of the thread for a while.


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