Otsuki Interview - November 2006

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Otsuki Interview - November 2006

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Postby 1731298478 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:26 am

Apologies if anything here has been posted or discussed before in the past.

In case this hasn't been mentioned, I wanted to include an Otsuki quote from an asahi.com article from September 2006:

「テレビ版のようにメタフィクション的な終わり方でけむに巻いたり、劇場版のように世界が終末を迎えるような不条理なラストにしたりはしない。エンターテインメント志向で、企画当初の構想に近いラスト。ずっとやりたかったが、監督がようやくその気になってくれた」

We're not going to confuse people with a metafictional ending along the lines of the TV version, or do an absurd, end-of-the-world type ending along the lines of the movie version. Oriented towards entertainment, the ending will be close to the idea from the beginning of planning. I wanted to do it all along, and the director finally came around to it.

Otsuki here appears to be saying that the ending of the new films will be the ending from the original kikakusho. Of course, this was a long time ago now.... but it's an interesting comment nevertheless.

The following is an attempted translation of a controversial interview Otsuki gave to Cyzo magazine in November 2006; the interview is taken from here. As usual, many apologies for mistakes in the translation, and corrections are appreciated.

アニメがつまらなくなったのは、「新世紀エヴァンゲリオン」のせいである(サイゾー2006年11月号より抜粋)

It is the fault of "Neon Genesis Evangelion" that anime has become useless. (Excerpted from the November 2006 issue of Cyzo.)

大月さんは、「月刊ニュータイプ」10月号のインタビューで、「新世紀エヴァンゲリオン」ブームの影響で、アニメ界によけいな誤解や混乱が生まれ、粗製乱造を招いてしまった」とおっしゃってましたね。ブームの仕かけ人が自らこのような発言をするのは、ファンにとっては大変ショッキングな”事件”だったと思うのですが。

- In an interview in the October issue of Monthly Newtype, you said that, "the impact of the Neon Genesis Evangelion boom has birthed excessive confusion and misunderstanding and led to the mass development of inferior works." I think the fans have seen it as a terribly shocking "affair" that the instigator of the boom himself would make such a statement.

大月 僕自身、「よくも言ったもんだ」と思いましたよ。「いちばん粗製乱造してきたのは、自分じゃないか」って(笑)。けれど、この現状に対する批判は、やはり誰かが言わないといけない。

Otsuki: I myself thought, "How dare I say that! Was I not the number one producer of inferior works?" (laughing) However, in the end someone has to voice criticism of the present situation.

-批判は覚悟で、敢えて問題提起を行なったということですか?

- So you ventured to raise this difficult question with the expectation of being criticised?

大月 粗製乱造といっても80年代のアニメと比べると、作画の質は段違いによくなっているんですよ。でも、企画が貧困なんです。『エヴァ』がテレビに登場してから、アニメ業界全体が『エヴァ』の呪縛の中で動いてきてしまったという弊害があります。

Otsuki: A vast difference in the quality of [modern] sakuga has developed when compared to the anime of the 80s, even when it comes to the mass developed, inferior works. But the planning is lacking. Ever since Eva appeared on television, a barrier has existed, whereby the entire anime industry operates under the curse of Eva.

具体的には、『エヴァ』のヒット以降、アニメ業界では作品の質じゃなくて、すべて売上の数字で判断されるようになってしまった。その結果、本来の顧客であるはずの中高生を置き去りにして、お金を落としてくれる30代のマニアへ向けた「萌え」アニメが深夜枠を中心に氾濫している。

To put it in concrete terms, ever since Eva was a hit, within the anime industry things have come to be judged based not on the quality of the work but on the amount of sales. As a result, [the industry] has deserted the middle and high school students who are supposed to be the primary audience, and there has been an overflow of "moe" anime directed towards obsessive fans in their 30s who spend money, centered around late-night broadcasts.

これが現状です。でも今年、「涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱」っていう「学園萌え」の決定版が出ちゃったんで、もうDVDの売上的にはピーク、あとは下がるだけでしょうね。このままでは、アニメに未来はない。なぜかというと、今の中高生はアニメなんか馬鹿にしちゃって、見ていないからです。本来アニメは、子供にみてもらうものじゃないですか。

That is the current situation. This year, "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya," the definitive version of "gakuen moe," has come out, and DVD sales have already peaked; from here they can only go down. At this rate, anime has no future. If I were to say why, it's that today's middle and high school students feel that anime is foolish and don't want to see it. Originally anime was made for children to watch.

それがいつの間にか、「萌え」が売れるからって、アニメ業界があこぎな商売にしてしまった。マニアへ向けたアニメ作品を見ている層が20代~40過ぎというのは、少し偏りがあると思います。『エヴァ』以降、本来あるべき姿から、みんな地軸が狂っちゃったんですよ。

Imperceptibly, the anime industry has become a business of greed, due to the marketability of "moe." The fact that the people who watch these anime works oriented towards obsessive fans range in age from twenty to over forty is, I think, something of a deviation. Ever since Eva, the axis of the world has spun out of control, away from what the form should naturally be.

そして、これはすべて、我々メーカー、アニメプロダクション側の罪であり、『エヴァ』の功罪でいうところの「罪」の部分です。「功」はありません、あるとしたら作品としての評価、それだけです。

And, the fault is entirely on our side, the side of the makers and the anime producers. This is part of what are called the "faults" in the faults and virtues of Eva. The "virtues" are lacking. Or if they exist, that can only [depend upon the] evaluation of the works as works.

-そんな状況で、また来年初夏から08年初夏にかけて、テレビシリーズ版『エヴァ』を再構築した「エヴァンゲリオン新劇場版」を4部作に分けて公開するわけですが、その意図とは?多くのファンが大月さんや庵野秀明監督に期待しているのは、「第二の『エヴァ』」なのであって、「『エヴァ』のリメイク」じゃないと思うのですが。

- In such a situation, between early summer next year and early summer 2008, you will release "Evangelion Shingekijoban," a reconstruction of the TV series version of Eva divided into four parts. But, what is your aim? I think what many fans expect from you and Director Anno is a "second Eva" and not an "Eva remake."

大月 よく誤解されるんですが、実はこの12年間、僕からは一度も「『エヴァ』の続編をやろう」と庵野さんに言ったことはないんですよ。

Otsuki: This is often misunderstood, but it's true that I have never once said to Anno-san, "let's do a sequel to Eva," all these past twelve years.

あまのじゃくな人なんで、そんなことを言えば、たちまちやる気をなくしますからね(笑)。でも、やっと庵野さんから「『次のエヴァ』をつくるための”土台”を、まずつくりたい」という言葉をもらったんです。

Because, to perverse people, if you say something like that, you've all of a sudden lost your enthusiasm (laughing). However, at last I recieved the following words from Anno-san: "I want to first of all create the 'foundation' for creating the 'next Eva'."

-つまり、今回の新劇場版は、あくまでも「次の『エヴァ』」に続くための、地ならしだと?

- In short, this new movie version is really for the purpose of clearing the ground for the "next Eva"?

大月 そうですね、あまり言うとネタバレになっちゃうんですが(笑)。12年前の『エヴァ』では、あの頃の社会状況や庵野さんの内面の問題があったりして、特に劇場版は「世界が破滅して、シンジとアスカだけ生き残る」という破滅的な形で終わりましたから、あの続きはありえないんですよ。

Otsuki: Right. If I say too much it will be a spoiler (laughing). With the situation of society at that time, Anno-san's internal problems, and so on, and especially because the film version ended ruinously, with the world destroyed and Shinji and Asuka the only survivors, continuing the Eva of twelve years ago is not possible.

けれど12年がたち、年代がひとまわりしたことで、庵野さんの中で整理がついた。新劇場版は、ある意味ハッピーエンドの『エヴァ』、一言で言うならば「希望に至る物語」になるはずです。

However, with the passing of twelve years, and the turn of a [new] age, Anno-san has settled things within himself. The new films should be, in a sense, Eva with a happy end, or if I had to express it in a single phrase, a story which leads to hope.

-ただ、それを聞いて心配なのが、”悪い意味”での「ガンダム」みたいに、今後、『エヴァ』の続編ばかりがつくられるようになったりはしないかです。

- However, hearing that I worry that [Eva] will become like Gundam in the "bad sense," and that from now on nothing but sequels to Eva will be made.

大月 庵野さんは、”いい意味”で『ガンダム』にしたいと言っています。結局、特撮には『仮面ライダー』『ウルトラマン』というスタンダードがそびえ立っているのに、アニメ界には『ガンダム』しかない。ですから、この劇場版で『エヴァ』をアニメ界のニュースタンダードにしたいということです。

Otsuki: Anno-san says that he wants to make [Eva] Gundam in the "good sense." After all, despite the fact that in tokusatsu there are standards like "Kamen Rider" and "Ultraman" which stand towering over everything, in the world of anime there is only "Gundam." Because of that, we want to make Eva into a new standard for the world of anime with these films.

制作スタジオもガイナックスではなくて、スタジオ・カラーという新しい会社を中心に作ります。

The production studio, as well, is not Gainax. We will make [the new films] centered in a new company, Studio Khara.

-では、大月さんは今回の『エヴァ』新作劇場版で、『エヴァ』が腐敗させたアニメ界に、何をもたらしたいとお考えですか?

- So, what do you hope to bring about with new Eva films in the world of anime corrupted by Eva?

大月 まず何より、中高生を「『エヴァ』って面白そうだね、見に行こうよ」って気持ちにさせることですね。最近の中高生はお小遣いのうち、月に5000円近くが、モバイル、パケ代で消えていくんですから、アニメのDVDなんて買えるわけないんですよ。

Otsuki: First of all, we want to give middle and high school students the feeling that Eva is interesting and that they want to see it. Since, within the allowances of today's middle and high school students, nearly five thousand yen disappears each month due to the packet fees of mobile phones, they can't buy things like anime DVDs.

そこで、「だから、DVDを買ってくれる30代向けの、萌えアニメでいいんだ」という倫理の崩壊。僕ら業界人はこうやって、いちばん大切なことを全部見逃してきたんですよ。

So, [we want] the collapse of the ethic which says, "because of this, we'll make moe anime directed towards the 30-somethings who buy DVDs." In doing this, we industry people have overlooked all the most important things.

エヴァ以降、作品づくりよりも、「やれ興行収入が何億円だ」、やれ「会社が上場して、株価がこれだけ上がった」ということばかり気に書ける人が、アニメ業界に一気に増えました。

Ever since Eva, even more than the creation of works, the number of people who can only write things like "the number of yen taken in at the box-office," or "the company has been listed, and its stock price went up this much" has suddenly increased.

正直、へどが出る。そんなことばかり言っていたら、この業界はそろそろやばいでしょう。

To be honest, it makes me sick. If we only say those kind of things, this industry will be in deep trouble before too long.

-自ら業界に渇を入れる、ということですね。

- You mean you want to inject vitality into your industry.

大月 『エヴァ』以降の12年で、僕自身がいちばんダメになったと、本音では思っています(苦笑)。だから、今ここでもう一度『エヴァ』を作ることで、無作為・無目的だった自分の12年間にもケリをつけたいんですよ。

Otsuki: In my heart I believe that, in the twelve years since Eva, I have been the most useless of all (bitter laugh). Because of that, I want to give my purposeless and aimless self of the last twelve years a good kick by making Eva one more time, here and now.

先日、スタジオ・カラーの会社開きがあったんですが、庵野さんも、貞本さんも、鶴巻さんも、みんなやる気満々で、楽しそうで、僕がこの12年間、たくさんのアニメに関わってきた中で無かった感覚がこれだなって思いました。

A few days ago, we had the opening of Studio Khara. Anno-san, Sadamoto-san, Tsurumaki-san, everyone was brimming over with motivation and looked to be in great spirits. I thought, here is the feeling I have been missing these last twelve years of involvement on many different anime projects.

ああいう少年のような瞳をした40代の男ってカッコイイですよ。これはいいスタジオになるし、いいフィルムになる。作画も完全新作でやるので、楽しみにしておいてください。

It was too amazing, these forty-something men with eyes like the eyes of young boys. This will be a great studio, and these will be great films. The sakuga will be completely new, so please look forward to it.

-そういう大月さんも、44歳とは思えない瞳の輝きぶりです(笑)。公開、楽しみにしています!

- Otsuki-san, your eyes, too, are shining in a way uncharacteristic of a 44-year old (laughing). We'll look forward to the release!
Last edited by 1731298478 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby qu4d » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:45 am

Thank you very much number-kun. Very interesting and kinda odd...

However, with the passing of twelve years, and the turn of a [new] age, Anno-san has settled things within himself. The new films should be, in a sense, Eva with a happy end, or if I had to express it in a single phrase, a story which leads to hope.


End of Evangelion was already a happy end...

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:22 am

Odd and controversial are probably both correct descriptions for Otsuki's statements, the whole crusade against moe anime focused on 30 years old men seems especially silly, although I think that it's not the first time that we read ambitious statement about the necessity of saving the anime industry from Otsuki and Anno, anyway I found decisively more interesting this part:
With the situation of society at that time, Anno-san's internal problems, and so on, and especially because the film version ended ruinously, with the world destroyed and Shinji and Asuka the only survivors, continuing the Eva of twelve years ago is not possible.

I never ever thought that they were (are?) thinking about turning Evangelion into an open story with potentially infinite sequels à la Gundam, wasn't Evangelion "a story that repeats"? Obviously it's a different matter if they wanted to turn Evangelion into a series of loosely linked but separate continuities, in this case I'm obviously prone to think that this idea could have remained around and it's possibly being used retroactively.
View Original Postqu4d wrote:End of Evangelion was already a happy end...

Except it wasn't, at least a lot of people, including possibly Anno himself, seem to disagree.

Anyway, thanks a lot for finding these interesting interviews and translating them, Number-kuns.
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Postby chee » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:01 am

Whenever people talk crap about what a given medium "should" aim for or who it "ought to" appeal to, as if piles of paper and ink possessed some magic bullshit deontological pixie dust that dictates some natural law, I just sort of have to shake my head. It always comes across as small-minded and excessively conservative.
Last edited by chee on Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:09 am

It is the fault of "Neon Genesis Evangelion" that anime has become boring.

:lol: I vote some paraphrase of this be the new banner.

View Original Postchee wrote:Whenever people talk crap about what a given medium "should" do or who it "ought to" appeal to, as if piles of paper and ink possessed some magic bullshit deontological pixie dust that dictates some natural law,

I would say stories can convey powerful narratives, and that there's a certain responsibility there (starting with, actually make one once in a while).

What made LOTR so powerful was it's own caution on the nature of power, and the fantasy genre for it has long since been in its shadow; few, if any works, have had quite the same substance to them.

But while fantasy writers still make the attempt to dethrown Mr. Tolkien, the Anime industry appears to have largely thrown in the towel, and I wouldn't say by any stretch that what Evangelion was getting at couldn't have been expanded on or congealed a bit more. Yet, with maybe one exception, there haven't seem to be many willing to try.

Also note that he's making a pragmatic conclusion: on the industry's current trajectory, the anime industry is doomed the die. If they don't find a way to speak to people again, and to those besides just the aging fanboys, they'll be going the way of old radio dramas.

I feel that anime is following the path of Star Trek, it went from the highs of later season TNG and DS9, to the stark emptiness that was Voyager and Enterprise. Eventually, it'll either have its own "gap" or stop completely. So hey, let's "loan" JJ Abrams to them.
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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:24 am

We're not going to confuse people with a metafictional ending along the lines of the TV version, or do an absurd, end-of-the-world type ending along the lines of the movie version. Oriented towards entertainment, the ending will be close to the idea from the beginning of planning. I wanted to do it all along, and the director finally came around to it.

The new films should be, in a sense, Eva with a happy end, or if I had to express it in a single phrase, a story which leads to hope.

Hmm, don't know what to think of this. Hope was what EOE was all about anyway.

It's not like I want EOTV or EOE again but I don't want, ugh... I just don't want something that caters to people, haha. If that makes sense[?]. I'll stand by my sentiments in the 'Do you want an Alternate Ending' thread for sure:
http://forum.evageeks.org/post/550660/Evangelion-40-do-you-really-want-an-alternate-ending/#550660

Cringing hard at the thought of an "ongoing" Eva after NTE is done and dusted. Countdown to nerd rage imminent. INB4 Strato; "I told you so!"

:fistshake:

I vote some paraphrase of this be the new banner.

Backed.

Also, thank you again Numbers-kun for the translation! You rule!
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Postby Der Kommissar » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:23 am

It's amusing to see that, even in Japan, there are folks who blame moe for the downfall of anime.

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Postby JoeD80 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:54 pm

Question? Is there a reason to not translate "作画"? "Anime" is the genre; "sakuga" refers to animation in general. Also, sakuga means in-betweening, in other words, the actual animating; so it can be translated as "animation".

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Postby riffraff11235 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:30 pm

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote::lol: I vote some paraphrase of this be the new banner.


Have any of the admins considered a dynamic banner for the site? Like having it scroll through quotes from the show and/or director Anno and Co.?
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Postby 1731298478 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:07 pm

View Original PostAlaska Slim wrote::lol: I vote some paraphrase of this be the new banner.

The title of the article is quite suggestive...!
I changed the translation of つまらない to "useless," since it fits a bit more with the sentiment of the article. "Boring" is probably not quite right ^^;

View Original PostJoeD80 wrote:Question? Is there a reason to not translate "作画"? "Anime" is the genre; "sakuga" refers to animation in general. Also, sakuga means in-betweening, in other words, the actual animating; so it can be translated as "animation".

Here, it's certainly true that 作画も完全新作でやる could easily have been translated as something like, "the animation will be completely re-done."

I guess for myself, with common terms, especially those many English-speaking fans know, I imagine it will be more useful to leave them as they are. As well, some terms, like settei, have, I think, no good equivalent in English. It's become a habit, so I automatically did it here. Sorry if it was confusing!

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Postby Warren Peace » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:13 pm

I've never seen a forum more concerned about its banner! :lol: People will use any excuse to come back to it (not that I'm completely innocent). I vote we nuke the banner to free ourselves from its nefarious clutches.

As for the interview itself, I'm beginning to think these things will only make sense after Rebuild is completed. Any attempt to divine grand designs will likely make us look foolish in the long run. Either that, or he's just confirmed every opinion I have about Rebuild (that's what people always say, right?).

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:27 pm

Hm.

A few thoughts and comments:

*IF this information still holds true (and some of it seems in line with Otsuki's Newtype USA December 2006 article), I guess the implication is: Whether or not Third Impact still happens narratively, the ending really will be optimistic or at least more hopeful?

*It's not the first time I've heard anime directors or anime production crew frustrated at the moe anime trend (IIRC, Ikuhara and Urobuchi also feel similarly), so I'm wondering if the seemingly moe elements in 2.0 (Rei and Asuka both becoming more emotional open/kind) were quite intentional. I've felt the various changes from NGE to NME have been rather deliberate, at any rate.

*By going back to the original ending, do they actually mean the Arka ending from Proposal (and all this), or something that we're not aware of? Perhaps some initial "planning stages" idea of how to end NME that was discarded but then they went back to it? Regarding The Proposal, there's a variation of Angel(s) from the Moon in NME, but still.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:49 pm

View Original PostDer Kommissar wrote:It's amusing to see that, even in Japan, there are folks who blame moe for the downfall of anime.
People were saying that the rise of kawaii titles was ruining anime at around the same time that NGE was airing (there are posts on rec.arts.anime from 1996 that make exactly this complaint), so Otsuki is giving NGE (or modern moe titles) more credit than it deserves for any perceived decay in the medium.
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Postby Xard » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:08 pm

Ootsuki: full of shit as usual

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:18 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Ootsuki: full of shit as usual


Huh? Why do you say that?
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Postby Der Kommissar » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:47 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:People were saying that the rise of kawaii titles was ruining anime at around the same time that NGE was airing (there are posts on rec.arts.anime from 1996 that make exactly this complaint), so Otsuki is giving NGE (or modern moe titles) more credit than it deserves for any perceived decay in the medium.


Oh, I agree. I just didn't know this brainbug was in force cross-ocean, as well.

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Postby JoeD80 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:06 pm

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:I guess for myself, with common terms, especially those many English-speaking fans know, I imagine it will be more useful to leave them as they are. As well, some terms, like settei, have, I think, no good equivalent in English. It's become a habit, so I automatically did it here. Sorry if it was confusing!

Just curious!

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Postby BornIn1142 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:51 am

Frankly, I simply cannot reconcile this talk about NME's big damn goals (however vaguely defined the idea of "creating the foundation for creating the next Eva" is) with the fact that all their original plans were completely scrapped and redone. Even if they know what they want to do, they don't know how to do it (or at least didn't in 2006).
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Postby Hiten777 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:34 am

So in other words, NGE was almost too hard to top in terms of making something that would be that popular, and Rebuild is what they intend to use in order to start a new continuation of the franchise.

(Not that there aren't many other versions of the franchise.)

To me this is actually a good business decision since NGE was a work of art in its own way and now new generations are going to be looking at this as the "starting point" of when they got into Eva. It's kinda like if Akira Toriyama wanted to add onto the DBZ franchise by using the new DBZ 2013 movie as the starting point of it.

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Postby BornIn1142 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:07 pm

View Original PostHiten777 wrote:To me this is actually a good business decision since NGE was a work of art in its own way and now new generations are going to be looking at this as the "starting point" of when they got into Eva. It's kinda like if Akira Toriyama wanted to add onto the DBZ franchise by using the new DBZ 2013 movie as the starting point of it.


Ahhh, so you're saying Anno wants to give other animators a lower benchmark?
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