What does "sequel" mean to you?

[qu4d]

Yeah... just that simple question. Now with the blood stain thread there are some pals who are already again like "yeah lolz stupid sequel here is proof yadda yadda"... like they want to rub it into some people's faces.

Why are some people so much against the idea of a sequel? From what I understand is that some think that sequel would imply that Rebuild would be a direct follow up to the events of End of Evangelion. Of course this doesnt work.

But sequel could mean something different. Like another iteration of the same universe thats expanding and shrinking over and over again...

Is it that hard to accept that? :/

[COACH]

Sequel theory says they're basically pulling a Groundhog's Day-esque universe reset that takes place after The End of Evangelion. That's what people are talking about.

[qu4d]

But earth after EoE doesnt look like in Rebuild... this doesnt make sense. A reset like in Groundhog-Day would reset everything. There cant be any physical leftovers from the previous iteration like a bloodstain on the moon.

[Azathoth]

Why are some people so much against the idea of a sequel? From what I understand is that some think that sequel would imply that Rebuild would be a direct follow up to the events of End of Evangelion. Of course this doesnt work.

This is the prevailing version of the theory, and in my opinion it's silly.

But sequel could mean something different. Like another iteration of the same universe thats expanding and shrinking over and over again...

This gets mentioned too, along with the "it's a parallel universe" thing, but I really don't see the point. If it's another iteration of the same universe (whatever that means) it's hardly a sequel. A sequel takes place chronologically after the original work. If it doesn't take place in the same timeline as the original (for example, if there is a Big Crunch and a Big Bang in between these two stories), it's hardly a sequel. If by "sequel" the theory means that NME is in many ways a continuation and elaboration of the themes of NGE, then that's absolutely true, but "spiritual successor" or even "reboot" (although I dislike using that term outside of comics) is an accurate term for that; "sequel" really isn't.

The "it's a parallel universe" thing, usually used in conjunction with the allegation that Kaworu and/or Mari are sliders, is not so easy to disprove; however, most of the "evidence" normally used for sequel theory (NGE 3I = NME 2I, the seas are red in NME because EoE just happened, Mark 06 is actually Unit 01, etc.) is discounted if NME and NGE/EoE don't take place in the same timeline.

The "the universe was reset by EoE" thing isn't supported by the evidence available to us in EoE.

The "it's all from the Instrumentality hallucinations of Shinji/Asuka/Yui/Gendou/Pen-Pen/whoever" argument doesn't really fit thematically, and would make the entire series feel a little inconsequential if it ended with "and then Shinji/Asuka/Yui/Gendou/Pen-Pen/whoever woke up and it was all an Instrumentality."

Most of my objection to the theory is not to its basic idea but rather to the fact that it's been cobbled together through cherry-picking, making tenuous connections between probably unrelated occurrences, and pasting screenshots out of context next to each other and calling it authorial intent. just like any of the other million fanwanks that are utterly irrelevant to NGE's point

[qu4d]

This gets mentioned too, along with the "it's a parallel universe" thing, but I really don't see the point. If it's another iteration of the same universe (whatever that means) it's hardly a sequel. A sequel takes place chronologically after the original work. If it doesn't take place in the same timeline as the original (for example, if there is a Big Crunch and a Big Bang in between these two stories), it's hardly a sequel. If by "sequel" the theory means that NME is in many ways a continuation and elaboration of the themes of NGE, then that's absolutely true, but "spiritual successor" or even "reboot" (although I dislike using that term outside of comics) is an accurate term for that; "sequel" really isn't.

See. And that´s what I mean. What is the definition of a sequel? For me the Big Bang/Big Crunch theory would be a valid sequel. NGE took place before and NME takes place after that and the universe gets rebooted over and over again. Each iteration has its own relative timeline but they all together build the absolute timeline. It would be a follow up. Just not 20 years later but like trillions and billions and quadrogigahyperzillions of years.

and an edit... your groundhog day comment just made me think of something... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

[COACH]

But earth after EoE doesnt look like in Rebuild... this doesnt make sense. A reset like in Groundhog-Day would reset everything. There cant be any physical leftovers from the previous iteration like a bloodstain on the moon.

Yeah, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. That's exactly why people say "yeah lolz stupid sequel here is proof yadda yadda." Nobody's saying that you couldn't apply some loose definition of the word 'sequel' to the NME, they're saying that THE big sequel theory is bullshit.

[InstrumentalityOne]

Another entry in the franchise.

[Xard]

Another entry in the franchise.

So episodes 1-3 are sequels to original Star Wars?

[COACH]

So episodes 1-3 are sequels to original Star Wars?

WE DON'T SPEAK OF THOSE MOVIES, THEY DON'T EXIST.

[KnightmareX13]

So episodes 1-3 are sequels to original Star Wars?

they're prequels

[Reichu]

See. And that´s what I mean. What is the definition of a sequel?

The "what is a sequel?" question is a bit secondary to the whole "does any of the 'evidence' that originally prompted this assertion actually support it?" thing. The insistence that NME is concretely associated in-universe with NGE (as opposed to just being a retelling or whatever) is based on, like Azathoth said, a bunch of cobbled-together and cherry-picked stuff. Most of this stuff is already explained by the new rules of the NME universe, and, if it isn't, we can form hypotheses (based on what we know of those "rules") that are a zillion times simpler than invoking multiverse scenarios.

But it seems like the less fodder "sequelists" have to play with, the more they have to appeal to a blind devotion on the order of religious faith. [/hyperbole]

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

But sequel could mean something different. Like another iteration of the same universe thats expanding and shrinking over and over again...

Is it that hard to accept that? :/

Not if that's what's actually going on, and not simply an idea that being batted around among us fanwankers. (I fanwank about stuff often, though the sequel idea isn't one of them.)

All of Rebuild is an "installment in the pre-existing Eva franchise", certainly. But I would consider Rebuild as much a sequel to NGE as much as I do Batman Begins a sequel to Batman &amp Robin, or if we want to stay within the same creative teams, the later versions of The Ten Commandments or The Man Who Knew Too Much a sequel to their previous versions.

[CORE]

Trying to remember a feeling but failing to remember it and feeling some thing els.

[Xard]

they're prequels

the point/joke

-----------------

you

[NemZ]

It would be a follow up. Just not 20 years later but like trillions and billions and quadrogigahyperzillions of years.

With reasoning as loose as that Hostel could be a sequel to Mary Poppins.

[SaltyJoe]

In the case of Rebuild: a terrible idea that shouldn't be pursued in any way, shape or form.

[Sachi]

I think the main point to be made here is the difference between a sequel and a reboot.

A sequel would need to be within the same universe as NGE and take place in sequence to NGE. The most practical way to do this, while still maintaining itself as a sequel, is a simple "world reset," in which the events of EoE cause the world to reset and eventually lead to the events of NME, suggesting that the world is trapped in an endless loop a la Haruhi Suzumiya's Endless Eight. However, even with this as a possibility, the NME series would need to address this cycle for the theory to hold any validity.

Whereas the publicly announced reboot suggests that it's just NGE told in a different way with a different ending. 1.0 seemed to follow suit with Ghost in the Shell 2.0, but minor detail changes suggested things would turn out totally different, as we see in Eva 2.0. Unless Anno is hoping to make a point with NME, it can be considered as just a major cash cow, which is a valid reason for creation.

"HEY ANNO, WANT TO TAKE ONE OF THE MOST SUCCESSFUL ANIME FRANCHISES AND REMAKE IT WITH PRETTIER ANIMATION TO MAKE LOTS OF MONEY?"

"OKAY! BUT LETS PISS EVERYBODY OFF AND CHANGE A WHOLE BUNCH OF THINGS, SINCE WE'RE PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEED THAT THEY'LL BUY IT NO MATTER WHAT WE DO WITH IT."

And thus became Rebuild.

[qu4d]

The "what is a sequel?" question is a bit secondary to the whole "does any of the 'evidence' that originally prompted this assertion actually support it?" thing. The insistence that NME is concretely associated in-universe with NGE (as opposed to just being a retelling or whatever) is based on, like Azathoth said, a bunch of cobbled-together and cherry-picked stuff. Most of this stuff is already explained by the new rules of the NME universe, and, if it isn't, we can form hypotheses(based on what we know of those "rules") that are a zillion times simpler than invoking multiverse scenarios.

A bunch of cobbled-together? For me it´s just 2 things.
Kaworu: I look forward to me you again, Shinji Ikrai.
Kaworu: This time I´ll make you happy.

At this point we just don´t know what he is refering to. This is an unanswered question and my theory would be that Kaworu is aware of the previous iteration that we saw in NGE. Like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day. He is aware of all the iterations but nobody else is.

So this is one possibilty to answer that question. There is not much to support that but there is as well nothing at all to disprove this idea. Why are people trying to disprove that? We just dont know yet so we all have to wait, watch and see how it turns out.

I´m not saying that this is how it is. For me this is just one way and I personally would like that very much to see that NGE and NME are somehow (story-wise) connected.

I think the main point to be made here is the difference between a sequel and a reboot.

A sequel would need to be within the same universe as NGE and take place in sequence to NGE. The most practical way to do this, while still maintaining itself as a sequel, is a simple "world reset," in which the events of EoE cause the world to reset and eventually lead to the events of NME, suggesting that the world is trapped in an endless loop a la Haruhi Suzumiya's Endless Eight. However, even with this as a possibility, the NME series would need to address this cycle for the theory to hold any validity.

Whereas the publicly announced reboot suggests that it's just NGE told in a different way with a different ending. 1.0 seemed to follow suit with Ghost in the Shell 2.0, but minor detail changes suggested things would turn out totally different, as we see in Eva 2.0. Unless Anno is hoping to make a point with NME, it can be considered as just a major cash cow, which is a valid reason for creation.
And thus became Rebuild.

Reboots are "unaware" of each other. Batman Begins/The Dark Knight/The Dark Knight Returns are their own canon. What happened in Burtons Batman doesnt matter.

NME might be some other kind of reboot. Of course it´s partially a retelling. But IF it´s just that... it would have a LITTLE taste of a cash cow to me. If it´s a "sequel" of NGE I´d love it even more.

And a "world reset" after EoE? Shinji rejected HIP and was on the beach with Asuka. How could there be a reset? There is nothing simple about that.

[Reichu]

This is an unanswered question and my theory would be that Kaworu is aware of the previous iteration that we saw in NGE.

Since all of the other apparent tie-ins to the original iteration have been / can be explained without recourse to groundhogs or whatever, it is much, much, MUCH simpler to surmise that Kaworu is already acquainted with NME!Shinji in some way not yet revealed.

There is not much to support that but there is as well nothing at all to disprove this idea.

We're heading into argumentum ad ignorantiam territory (or some other logical fallacy, assuming I picked the wrong one) if we aren't already nose-deep in it.

[qu4d]

Are we? I dont think I´m ignorant at all. I just dont refuse this idea and UNTIL NOW we dont have any "evidence" that Kaworu met NME-Shinji before.

It´s possible that NME is just a simple reboot. But it´s also possible that NGE and NME are connected story-wise. That´s all I´m saying.

Isnt refusing the idea ignorant? ;)