Silent Hill

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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:57 pm

Downloaded SH1 from PSN a couple nights ago as it was only 10 bucks. Two hours or so in, I'm up to the school trying to work out the piano puzzle. Hasn't taken long for me to be completely sucked into the game, graphics and clunky controls regardless; which is a testament to the game's atmosphere and tone I guess.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Right-o; finished SH1 last night. I got the Good ending, even though I was trying for Good +. I knew I had to save Cybil as opposed to killing her to get it, but I fucked up; completely missed the Aglaophotis back in the director's office in the hospital. I saw it, and it stood out to me at the time, I just didn't think to use the friggin' plastic bottle to collect it (I was wracking my head as to what that stupid bottle was for). Fuck I'm an idiot.

SPOILER: Show
When she died I was so crestfallen and disappointed in myself, and then the final scene with Lisa. Bugger. It's a wonder the game can make you care so much for characters that have little to no dialogue or interaction with the player.

Overall I really liked it. The story wasn't nearly as detailed as I thought it was going to be. Instead, SH1 is almost an exercise in minimalist storytelling, wherein you have to put the pieces together yourself to actually understand what's going on. At no time in the game does it lay it all out for you. Zero exposition. Nada. And to be honest, the only reason I think I knew what was happening was that I've read so much about Silent Hill before in the past.

Would anyone recommend a replay? Is there any merit to it, or any content/stuff that can be done only via a completed save? If not, I might move onto SH2. Although, with The Phantom Pain coming out next Tuesday, it may have to wait until well into the future, because that game is going to consume my life.
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:00 pm

I don't think any Silent Hill game is worth serially replaying just to get the other endings -- it's too much work for too little reward, because except for Shattered Memories nothing changes along the way. I thought I would do that with Silent Hill 2, but wound up just YouTubing the other endings and was very happy that I did. The same happened with Silent Hill 3, and when I saw how lackluster the "Rebirth" ending was I was glad I didn't sink hours into earning it. The same is true of all the others -- nothing else changes enough along the way for the replay to be worth it, the endings themselves are pretty brief anyway, and it arguably cheapens the original experience.
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Postby Blue Monday » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:48 pm

So, thanks to Shino for hooking me up with a version of the game (thanks again, man), I've been playing Silent Hill 2 on PC the past couple nights with the Modern Compatibility Fix. I initially told myself I wouldn't start it because MGSV is out next week - and I wanted to give it the attention and thought it deserves before becoming engrossed in The Phantom Pain for the next few months - but I completely caved. What an absolutely gorgeous game it is.

I just cleared Brookhaven Hospital last night. Nothing new to say other than the usual praises SH2 gets, all of which are very well deserved. However, even on normal, the puzzles don't seem as difficult as they were in SH1 (I only managed to stumble through the music room piano one out of blind luck I think). The one so far that kind of perplexed me at first was the clock in the apartment building, but after jotting the clues down in a notepad, taking a break and thinking on it, it snapped into realisation pretty quickly. I'm not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed after-all.

Also, I don't know if it's just me but in-game I don't actually find Red Pyramid Thing that scary. He's intimidating, sure, but seeing how slow he moves, especially when he has the sword, I know that I can easily outmanoeuvre him and escape whenever I run into him. If I could change anything about the character, I'd make him slightly larger, more imposing, and a bit quicker. I want to fear for my/James' life when he appears, a la Nemesis in RE3. I will freely admit though that he did get the drop on me both when you first see him in the apartment building and later on the hospital rooftop, and I understand that SH is a different kind of horror altogether.


I downloaded Silent Hill 4: The Room from the Japanese PSN for my PS3 too. It's dubbed in English and has English language options for all texts and subtitles. After SH2 and MGSV (which is going to be months down the road by my guess), I look forward to playing it, because everything I've ever read about it just makes it sound like my kind of game/story.
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Postby Joy Evangelion » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:19 pm

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote: Silent Hill 2


I actually was playing this one this week as well, partly because of the talk about it here on EGF, and because I'd been meaning to pick it up for some time now. It was my first Silent Hill game, and I really couldn't have been any happier with it, though I live alone in a pretty old apartment , so there were times when I was playing it at night and every movement or sound from outside my window/behind me scared the hell out of me. It may have actually scared me more than any piece of media since I was ten years old and watched New Nightmare :rolleyes: It wasn't so much the visuals that got to me though, but the sounds -- stuff like the radio, the death cries of those mannequin things, the faint whispers, and the music that'd play when you'd enter certain rooms.

But yea, the puzzles made me feel pretty stupid at times too and since I played it on hard it could be pretty aggravating, so much to the point where even when I solved them I wasn't even that satisfied because I was too mentally exhausted.

Mostly everything spoilered below comes after the hospital.
SPOILER: Show
Totally loved the endless hole jumping in the historical society and those yellow brown hallways that you finally end up in; they're so simple but the fact that they'd exist that far underground really unnerved me.
Loved the boat trip to the hotel as well and the way the game is able to instill in the player that something big is coming in room 312, though I did find the videotape to be a bit underwhelming. Still, I had a really great time playing through that location and the way it warped after you leave 312(especially the scene in the reading room with the headphones.)
Ended up with the 'In Water' ending, which I didn't mind at all since I liked the way that it sort of brought everything full circle, beginning and ending the game with the lake.

My highest praise for the game though has to be that at times it actually made me feel like I was in a nightmare. The weather while I was playing it was pretty gloomy and I didn't really talk to people through my phone or whatever, so I was pretty immersed in the whole experience, even to the point where I just wanted to beat the damn thing so I could sort of be freed from it, which is a feeling I don't think I ever got from a game before.

Truly a wonderful and beautiful game.
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Postby Blue Monday » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:04 pm

Can't read your spoiler because I've only just got up to the Historical Society building after spending nearly two hours wandering around the dark version of town, exploring, hunting down supplies and stuff. I've been looking for the rifle as well because I've started getting ammo for it yet I don't actually have the gun itself. I fear I've missed it maybe. I did stumble upon this though, the kind of thing that unnerves me in the game:

SPOILER: Show
Image

I love that sort of attention to detail and fine touches; graffiti added to a completely non-essential area I revisited (Neely's Bar, I think) that wasn't there before.


View Original PostJoy Evangelion wrote:It wasn't so much the visuals that got to me though, but the sounds -- stuff like the radio, the death cries of those mannequin things, the faint whispers, and the music that'd play when you'd enter certain rooms.

I agree. There's a good example when you enter one room in the apartment building and the music is composed of these inhuman wails and churning pistons. Shit is blood-curdling and hackle-raising, yet so addictive and awesome. There's nothing dangerous in said room but just the music alone...


Hey, does anyone know the deal with the bloody map and the dead body (that looks an awful lot like James) near the broken bridge near the Historical Society? It's got markings on it - a cross on the parking lot near the park and Pete's Bowl-O-Rama is circled - but I haven't noticed anything new or different about either locations (you can't even get into the parking lot as it's locked off). I don't want to Google it for fear of spoiling something that I don't already know about the game.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:04 am

Sometimes i feel like im the only person who got the "leave" ending my first run through because i actually look after myself in games and don't want to die.
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Postby Monk Ed » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:11 am

Funny story, I got "In Water" on my first ever playthrough as well, but then when I bought the game years later to experience it all over again, this time attempting to get all the endings (I petered out after my first one and just looked up the rest on YouTube because I realized the story as a whole would not diverge), I got "Leave" even though I was trying to get "In Water"... but I wound up very happy with it regardless because if I was going to get just one ending I felt that was the best one to have.
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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:16 am

To be fair the most important thing on a standard NG file (not NG+ because the opens up for all the other endings) is your playstyle, if you take care of yourself, make sure to keep your health up and generally act like you want to live you will get leave
SPOILER: Show
The "you should just die" thing on the wall and the diary on top of the hospital factor into "in water" but you will still probably get "leave" so long as you take care of yourself, letting your health get low and ignoring it, looking at the knife, the other factors i mentioned lead into "in water"
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:21 am

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:Sometimes i feel like im the only person who got the "leave" ending my first run through because i actually look after myself in games and don't want to die.


I got 'Leave'on my first run as well, but that was only because I knew about those 2 suicidal notes factoring into 'In Water' and I really couldn't be bothered to try and protect Maria from everything.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:54 am

Just finished it then.

SPOILER: Show
I got 'Leave' and it fucking crushed me; killing Maria, and then Mary's letter at the end. I think especially because I was trying so hard for the 'Maria' ending. I didn't let her get hit once. I visited her multiple times in the hospital. I always kept her close by. Where did I go wrong? That disappointment, coupled with the emotion of the ending itself, is hitting particularly hard.

FUCK.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:40 am

^TBH, I consider 'Maria' one of the bad endings, although if you really like Maria's character then I guess it can be considered good.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

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Postby Blue Monday » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:00 am

Yeah, reading up on it now and seeing what it entails, I'm realising in a big way that it's narratively regressive, not only for the story, but for James as well. I guess 'Leave' really is the best outcome. Oh, and for what I did to miss out on the 'Maria' ending?

SPOILER: Show
I read Mary's letter and examined her photo twice that I can think of, and I listened to the totality of the hallway conversation towards the end. Having a vague notion about the endings in advance; I knew some of the criteria - hence why I was even trying for 'Maria' in the first place - but I didn't really know the true nuts and bolts of it all. And to be honest, I think I'm still a little distraught over Cybil in SH1. Maybe that's why I was trying so desperately to save Maria; I didn't want to fail anyone again. I feel that really informed on my outlook going into this game.
Last edited by Blue Monday on Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:13 am

^
SPOILER: Show
You weren't supposed to listen to the whole conversation at the end, maybe that's what shifted you to 'Leave' rather than 'Maria'.

Ending requirements can be found here

Although there isn't much reason to go through NG+ unless you want to try out the spray can weapon or get another ending.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:03 am

Yep, but I didn't know that. Like I said, I only had a vague notion of the criteria, i.e. don't let Maria get hurt, et cetera. In fact, I really didn't know the game was so forensic in its study of the player's behaviour. Pretty impressive stuff for a game that came out in 2001, and most likely nothing like it has been seen since.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, it's the next day and I've been thinking about this game a lot.

SPOILER: Show
Am I right in assuming there was never any letter from Mary to begin with? The one we start off with in the game? As it slowly disappears during the hotel sequence, I took that to mean it never actually existed in the first place. Then, at the end of the game, when we see that it's actually just the start of the full letter Mary left James in the event of her death; I interpreted that as James having already read it, knowing full well what it says.

Going by that logic, I think that James was going to Silent Hill to kill himself (the couples' special place). Then on his way there, Silent Hill, or a psychosis, takes over. Cue the very first cutscene from the game.

Image
That scene, and that imagery, is probably the one that leapt out at me the most in the entire game. Like in SH1 with Harry, it's James coming to, slightly out of it; "Who am I? Where am I? Oh, the letter. That's right." This psychosis, coupled with James suppressing the memories (not being able to fully process what he'd done mere days before), is what lead to the character's condition as we pick up and start playing him in the intro. There is no letter. James only thinks there is. Why else would he be in Silent Hill? Why else would it vanish later on as things start coming into picture? Because he'd already read the letter from Mary three days ago. In the end it all comes back to him.

From there, it depends how you play the game. This interpretation goes well with 'In Water' in my opinion, but in the case of 'Leave'; after coming to terms with what he'd done - euthanasing his terminally ill wife and being punished for it - Silent Hill wanted to remind James that Mary loved him and that he loved her.

    "James, you made me happy."
Consequently, that knowledge either gives or takes our protagonist's life.

In regards to the gameplay itself, I was disappointed that there weren't any actually frightening enemies outside of Red Pyramid Thing (and I mentioned my issues with him earlier in-thread). All the monsters are slow and lumbering, compared to SH1 where you had monstrous bosses, and things like the Romper (fuck those things, man) and Hanged Scratcher. I realise that most of the creatures in SH2 are construed symbolism of things from James subconscious, but there were many times in the game where it felt like it was building up to a crescendo, feeling like THE BIG ONE was just around the corner (the prison and labyrinth are a good example). But the THE BIG ONE never came. Just Pyramid Head and more Mannequins. I soon realised that there was no bite to back up the bark, so to speak.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Reiterating that Silent Hill is a different breed of horror from the likes of Resident Evil, the game still had me completely gripped with terror. I knew no big bads were going to dice me up in mere seconds if I took a wrong step, but the fucking music, audio and atmospherics still made me feel that way. And that's one of the ingredients that make this game so different than the rest.

Silent Hill 2 is a masterwork. I rue the fact that I never got the chance to play it years ago, untarnished by years of spoilers and foreknowledge, but appreciative I got to still play it, and that it even exists, nonetheless.
Last edited by Blue Monday on Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:45 am

SPOILER: Show

My interpretation of the lack of obvious threatening/omnious figures outside of the Red Pyramid Thing is that they're not supposed to create a sense of fear so much as a sense of weakness and disgust; many of them such as the Lying Figure are reminiscent of Mary during the final stages of her sickness, while others such as the Nurses and Mannequins represent James's repressed sexual desires and inability to come to terms with his murder of Mary. Whereas the creatures of Silent Hill 1 and 3 are born of fear, the monsters of Silent Hill 2 seems to be born of weakness, disgust and regret, and their forms reflect that.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:44 pm

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:I soon realised that there was no bite to back up the bark, so to speak.

This is the series' greatest strength and weakness, I feel. I've described my experience with the series at least once before over the course of my time here on EGF, and I feel like saying it again: Silent Hills 2 and 3 did a great job of keeping me on edge, but the effect faded after I realized that the BIG ONE I kept fearing would never come. In your case it was a monster you were expecting, but in mine it was a jumpscare -- I was terrified that at some point in the game, finally, the screen would abruptly go all wrong and flash horrific imagery in my face combined with loud, disturbing noises.

The mirror room sequence in Silent Hill 3 is still freakin' awesome, though.

Also man Blue, that analysis makes SH2 look like even more of a masterwork than I already knew it was. I appreciated it for its ability to scare me, and while you didn't exactly introduce anything I didn't already know, the way you framed the meaning of "In Water" and "Leave" with it made it all sing in a way I don't think it ever quite has for me before.
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Postby Ophelia » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:40 am

I just wanted to chime in to say that I honestly think the sound and music in games 1-3 is impeccable. Blue Monday was saying something about the sound design.....honestly, those factors are the scariest parts of the games for me.
Once you've been through one of the monsters, you've been through them all. Don't get me wrong, the general vision of Silent Hill's nightmarish denizens are fantastic and incredibly disturbing (as they should be), but I know they're coming. The spontaneous growling, screaming, roaring and other jarring noises you hear sprinkled throughout the game at random intervals, with no source in sight, are what make the hairs on my neck stand up because they leave me in the dark. The atmosphere is terrifying and assaults you with all the dreadful possibilites of the unknown, both auditory and visual. And the music is perfect, there's no other way to describe it. I love almost everything about Silent Hill, but especially the audio engineering.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:33 am

E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

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Postby IronEvangelion » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:02 pm

It looks like P.T. is making a comeback... of sorts. Lilith Ltd is seeking $250,000 on Kickstarter to make a horror game directly inspired by P.T.

http://gematsu.com/2015/09/pt-inspired-allison-road-kickstarter-launched
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:58 pm

SH2 dog ending (Hi doge) and SH3 Song are the only canon endings. :tongue:

So, I'd like to play through the SH series (I have watched all of 1), but Twitch streams of the various games and P.T. especially unnerved me so much that I'm just not sure. -o-; At least RE is camp horror not psychological, though 3 of the crazy monsters have freaked me out plenty. :lol:
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