Silent Hill

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[Video Games] Silent Hill

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Postby child of Lilith » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:58 pm

View Original PostMugwumpHasNoLiver wrote:Image

My name is Maria . . . and I can't do anything behind these bars.

Oh my god, I love your new avatar Mugwump! Maria is fucking awesome and that scene is one of my all time favorites from the game. Quite often I’ll put the game in just so I can watch the little movie that plays when you let the game sit at the start menu. That whole sequence is amazing and makes me wish Konami would go back to using cut-scenes that didn’t rely on in-game graphics.
"Let the right one in. Let the old dreams die. Let the wrong ones go. They cannot do, what you want them to do."- Morrissey, Let the Right One Slip In

"Happy people can be so cruel"- Claudia, Silent Hill 3

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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:33 pm

I know, right? I just replayed the game for the first time in months and I was frustrated that I couldn't get "auto-load" feature to go off so I could watch the opening.

I've only in the past week played the first and third, so I played the second again because my copy of the fourth hasn't arrived yet and I'm not done BEING ADDICTED. They're all great, but playing the second with them in mind, only makes it so much clearer how much better it is. The first got to be a bit silly at times, with its (kind of vague) emphasis on the occult and the third just feels like it exists to clarify what happened in the first. Not that either are bad, I really do like them, and although they have their strengths and weaknesses, neither have the melancholy, or the emotional and psychological complexity as the second. Plus, both the first and third have way too many exposition dumps, clear-cut good and bad characters, happy endings, etc. It just seems hokey compared to Silent Hill 2's monolithic moral and narrative ambiguity.

Also, it was the only one that didn't have those fucking annoying dog monsters. Christ, I hate those things (but only slightly less than those stupid pterodactyls, or the crawlers in the third one.)

All right, I need to shut up because I came dangerously close to a 'squee'. Although I will say that as marvelous as the labyrinth sequence is, I'm glad that Silent Hill 3 only used in-game graphics, just because it had unlockable extra costumes. I've always hated the continuity clashes that happen when alternate costumes are involved.

@Synapsid: The funny thing is, that I never noticed until you pointed it out. Way to go. I wish the whole world could be high contrast, it would be so much more stylish.
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Postby child of Lilith » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:07 pm

Yeah, 1 and 3 are good, but they don't hold a candle to 2.

As for the dogs... wait tell you play 4, after that you'll be beging for the dogs from 1and 3.

Also, I feel I have to worn you you about 4. It is the one game in the series I absolutely hate. I can't say if you'll end up feeling the same way, but I do know most people who have played it either love it to death or totally hate it like I did, very few fall in the middle. I don't want to spoil things for you so I'll just say some serious design\gameplay changes are at the root of the problem.

You seem to be really enjoy the Silent Hill franchise so I recommend that you should also try the other games in the serious (Origins, Homecomeing, and Shatered Memories). The first two are ok, but SM is really good, the best game in the series since 2 in my opinion. Though I do have to worn you that just like 4, it's another game most people either love or hate.
"Let the right one in. Let the old dreams die. Let the wrong ones go. They cannot do, what you want them to do."- Morrissey, Let the Right One Slip In

"Happy people can be so cruel"- Claudia, Silent Hill 3

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:32 am

I must be weird since I'm one of the few who prefers SH1 to 2 and 3. Yeah, 2 was the most overtly emotional, but what I love about 1 was that it was the subtlest both in its emotional content and the narrative itself. They used a buttload of allusions and hints to explain exactly what was happening in the game, and as I read various guides/analyses of it it only increased my appreciation for what they accomplished there. 2 swapped all of that subtle complexity for something that was much more straightforward and nakedly emotional and psychological, and 3 did away with most of that in favor of just scaring the poop out of you (which it did extremely well, for sure). Plus, I think 1 is one of the few games where the limited graphics actually made it better because you were never quite sure what you were looking at, and what my mind filled in the blanks with was far scarier than anything that was explicit in 2 or 3... ok, MOST everything.
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:28 am

I just did a search for a Silent Hill thread, and all that came up was the thread we're in now. Could one of the mods kindly split out the relevant posts and make one for us? I'm not getting Silent Hill out of my system any time soon.

I did like the original Silent Hill's use of allusions, even if I didn't get most of them the first few times. Although I'd argue even with the allusions, the narrative still seems a bit wobbly. Despite the characters all being flatter than ten year old girls, I still do prefer the original to the third. If not only because it demystified the original and went over the top in a few places (EVIL TWIN) and explained WAAAY too much, then because of how linear the levels were and how it lazily reused a chunk of Silent Hill 2's map. Silent Hill 3 did have better characters though. Heather's teenage sassiness was a welcome change from Harry's one-note dead pan "Have you seen my daughter?" And the slow realization that Claudia is really just a lonely little girl inside made for a much more interesting villain than "Wooo! I'm a crazy cult lady! Woooo!" Dahlia. (Even if every line Dahlia had was pure GOLD.) I suppose Silent Hill 3, as much as I do like it, left a comparatively bad taste in my mouth entirely because it felt too much like a sequel. Even the attempts at parallelism with the first game came across as more samey than anything of interest.

As for Silent Hill 2 being 'nakedly emotional', that's probably one of it's bigger strengths for me. It might just be because I have a stiffy for subjective realities, but being completely inside somebody's delusional nightmare, is the greatest portrait of intimacy you can paint. One and three, both have you in another character's nightmare, and it's all dressed up with that silly cult stuff. It reduces the player to an observer, it keeps you distanced. You and the NPCs are all keeping the delusions at arms length, while in Silent Hill 2 you feel completely immersed and alone the entire time, because you are alone; inside the character's skull. There's also the mystique of the whole show don't tell aspect, where you can tell no two characters are seeing the same thing, and how the otherworld seems to completely change shape depending on who's seeing it. (I.E. to Angela, it's either on fire, or full of suggestive pistons, to Eddy it's like a big meat locker where all the beef is wearing pants.) It experiments with the formula and does it incredibly well. Three just felt like an encore, like it was afraid to experiment anymore.

Man, I almost come across as too hard on three. It's good, it's just my least favorite.
"Now, from Nature we obtain abundant information about ourselves, and precious little about others. About the woman you clasp in your arms, can you say with certainty that she does not feign pleasure? About the woman you mistreat, are you quite sure that from abuse she does not derive some obscure and lascivious satisfaction? Let us confine ourselves to simple evidence: through thoughtfulness, gentleness, concern for the feelings of others we saddle our own pleasure with restrictions, and make this sacrifice to obtain a doubtful result." -The Divine Marquis

"I agree Hans, but we have talked about those anal fisting analogies." -Werner Herzog

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:11 am

For right now I'll just drop these here:

[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/198641-silent-hill/faqs/4180[/url]
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/198641-silent-hill/faqs/36931[/url]

The first is a fascinating and provocative interpretation of the first game. It's primarily what made me such a grand admirer of the game; I had already loved it, but it convinced me there was so much more there than meets the eye. I still go back and read through it occasionally, even though now I notice some flaws in it, its still enlightening. The second is about as comprehensive a study on the series and its mythology as is possible. I read it once but have probably forgotten more of it than I remember.

Anyway, I fear it's been too long since I've played the games to get into a really in-depth discussion. But I guess I should say that I don't feel the plot of the first game is "wobbly" at all. If anything, I prefer its ambiguity to the more traditional storytelling of the subsequent games. Also, the whole "subjective reality" isn't unique to the 2nd game; it's pretty essential to the entire series.
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:30 am

Man, I've been wanting to go through those at some point. I would do it now, but something really important came up and I'm completely engaged. In any case, as that bit about "subjective reality", I'd say most of the series doesn't take it far enough. At least the first three don't. In fact, the second might not either, but what it hints at is fascinating, and I wish the series would do more with it. Well, I'll be sure to read those analysisrs before I open my mouth anymore.
"Now, from Nature we obtain abundant information about ourselves, and precious little about others. About the woman you clasp in your arms, can you say with certainty that she does not feign pleasure? About the woman you mistreat, are you quite sure that from abuse she does not derive some obscure and lascivious satisfaction? Let us confine ourselves to simple evidence: through thoughtfulness, gentleness, concern for the feelings of others we saddle our own pleasure with restrictions, and make this sacrifice to obtain a doubtful result." -The Divine Marquis

"I agree Hans, but we have talked about those anal fisting analogies." -Werner Herzog

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:59 am

Is this game full-on horror and/or gory at all?

It sounds like an interesting series, I just don't know how well it would sit with me.
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Postby RetroRainbow » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:04 pm

From what I can recall, it's not at all gory (besides from when the world 'shifts'). It's more of a psychological horror, with unsettling everyday images. It takes inspiration from the movie Jacob's Ladder, and in 3 there is an eerie, slanted camera shot of a wheelchair after falling on its side with the wheels spinning around, for example. The draw in that scene was that you were supposed to be completely alone, and seeing something which look like it fell only moments ago was definitley meant to unnerve you.

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Postby SpearofLonginus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:28 pm

I'm only so-so at horror survival (having played very little of RE2 and dying horribly at it, but then getting to the final boss in PE2 and completing PE enough to even go through EX mode... but I'm not sure if PE completely counts.. lol) so I did start watching a playthrough online of SH2. I hear its the best, I love the little details (especially about Pyramid Head.. I think I'm getting on the fangirl wagon, if that's what we're calling it. I should post the drawing I did of PH fighting one of my original characters... its pretty cool
SPOILER: Show

[img]
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs226.snc4/38653_1558714048820_1264335302_31542544_3849985_n.jpg
[/img]

I think I would enjoy SH2 if I did pick it up. :D
Oh, and I hear fans hated the movie... but the movie made me want to play the games. I loved it... but I tend to love movies people hate. XD
Last edited by SpearofLonginus on Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:27 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Postby child of Lilith » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:20 pm

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:For right now I'll just drop these here:
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/198641-silent-hill/faqs/4180[/url]
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/198641-silent-hill/faqs/36931[/url]


Thanks for the links, Jimbo.
"Let the right one in. Let the old dreams die. Let the wrong ones go. They cannot do, what you want them to do."- Morrissey, Let the Right One Slip In

"Happy people can be so cruel"- Claudia, Silent Hill 3

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Postby backseatjesus » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:04 pm

I can't play the Silent Hill games. I can watch Horror Movies, no matter how scary or disgusting they are. I, however, just can't play games like Silent Hill. I just feel too uncomfortable. Hell, I barely made it through Alan Wake and the Max Payne series.

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Postby TehDonutKing » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:12 pm

Like Linkara, I love the series from watching playthroughs on YouTube.[/quote]

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Postby Killer Bee » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:43 pm

I've wanted to play this game for a long, long time. Never having owned a PS1 or PS2, I missed out on a lot of great games in my youth. Now that I have both a (ancient)PS2 and PS3, I'm frequenting the used game sections of stores more than I used to. Isn't the first one up on PSN? I might have to get it.

One thing I have to ask(I'm trying to avoid spoilers by only skimming the posts here): Is it psychologically scary, or is it blood 'n guts chainsaw massacre "scary?" Because gratuitous gore's just gross.

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Postby IrkenEvangelion » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:49 pm

Psychologically scary. Some of the times you'll just be staring at the screen going "What the hell just happened..." I've been meaning to buy a few of these games. I've always liked them.
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:52 pm

Silent Hill creates horror through atmosphere and psychology and it works marvelously because of it.

Now that that's out of the way, I'm playing The Room right now. I totally see the differences, but I'm kind of digging it, especially after how samey number three was. The first person perspective actually adds to the feeling of loneliness and imprisonment if you ask me, but the revamped inventory is going to take some getting used to.

Also, the main character is totally rapeable, but that's only because I have a sick mind.
"Now, from Nature we obtain abundant information about ourselves, and precious little about others. About the woman you clasp in your arms, can you say with certainty that she does not feign pleasure? About the woman you mistreat, are you quite sure that from abuse she does not derive some obscure and lascivious satisfaction? Let us confine ourselves to simple evidence: through thoughtfulness, gentleness, concern for the feelings of others we saddle our own pleasure with restrictions, and make this sacrifice to obtain a doubtful result." -The Divine Marquis

"I agree Hans, but we have talked about those anal fisting analogies." -Werner Herzog

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:57 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Is this game full-on horror and/or gory at all?
Like others have said, it's more psychological. The first two games (especially) do wonders with suggestion through deep shadows, sound-effects, music, etc. I can recall very little actual gross-out stuff in the first game other than the pervasive color of red being everywhere. The first game made me permanently afraid of elementary schools and hospitals... and radio static.

View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:Thanks for the links, Jimbo.
No problem.

View Original PostXard wrote:Overinterprepting films is bad enough: overinterprepting games should be punishable by law
That's Our (Mr. Nihilist) Xard!

View Original PostMugwumpHasNoLiver wrote:While I disagree with Xard on principal, that first link gave me a headache. I really can't fathom how the shout-out's to all the authors was intended to give context. If that was their goal, I think they would have been more specific.
I think the article is most flawed when it tries to get specific, but I think the general idea is that the makers were trying to give shout-outs to their influences that largely inspired the game. There are certainly a lot of superficial allusions thrown in there, like Kiss and Sonic Youth bandmember names. The parts about Silent Hill and Jacob's Ladder were more insightful, I thought. To me, I think he was quite good at piecing together the backstory from the limited information; especially the tragedy surrounding Lisa. I also thought it was fascinating how he tied the different endings together.

View Original Postbackseatjesus wrote:I can't play the Silent Hill games. I can watch Horror Movies, no matter how scary or disgusting they are. I, however, just can't play games like Silent Hill. I just feel too uncomfortable. Hell, I barely made it through Alan Wake and the Max Payne series.
I know what you mean; there's something about the interactivity that gives horror games an extra punch. That's why I rate Silent Hill as one of my absolute favorite works of art in any medium, because nothing has ever been able to involve me on such a horrific, visceral level. That first game is so oppressive that it's damn-near palpable.
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I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Crystal Wolf » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:33 am

I liked playing through the original via Playstation Network, some of the sequel on PC (with the extra Maria side-story thing), and a little of Silent Hill Homecoming for Xbox 360. I've gotten very close to beating the original game, but have yet to make it past the halfway mark of Silent Hill 2. I have to agree with previous poster(s) who stated that the original was better than 2, but the second isn't necessarily a bad game.

The original was truly a marvel for the PS1 hardware; considering too how slow the PS1's disc drive was by comparison to say, the cartridge-based N64, streaming an entire city seamlessly through 4MB of RAM is a wonder of semi-modern gaming technology that seems to have gone utterly unnoticed and taken for granted as of late. The game's art is comparatively high-res as to what was usually seen on the PS1, and looks nice and gritty combined with the full-screen film grain/dithering effects as well as the fairly geometry-heavy city. Texture warping is obvious and there's some pretty blatant use of Turok fog... But come on; it's the PS1.

The gameplay for the original was a largely alien experience for me, as before I picked up SH1 on my PS3, I had never played any Silent Hill games before. Note that I don't generalize here - Silent Hill is really a unique series to me. And on the note of alien, I'd like to compare the first two games to Homecoming, which was largely developed outside of Konami. All of Konami's Silent Hill games present you with enemies that may vaguely resemble a human or animal form you've seen in past experiences, but retain truly bizarre, other-worldly features and alien behavior that you don't quite know how to combat immediately... There seems to be no pattern to their advances or system to their scheme, until the great reveal of the game's relative Eldritch Abomination.

Silent Hill Homecoming on the other hand... The enemies are more weaponized and obvious. Not much else to say, really. I guess you could use Homecoming as a comparison to the original games as a way of making a point about westernization ruining game franchises, and I'd probably agree with you.

Sorry for the disorganization. Just some thoughts.

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Postby backseatjesus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:50 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Silent Hills are not ment to be LOLDEEP or anything like that with which you need to justify your liking for them.

Oh, excuse them Mr. developer of Silent Hill.

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Postby Sepulcural Voice » Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:59 pm

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:
That's Our (Mr. Nihilist) Xard!


i'll show you nihilist

I've never quite dug the Silent Hill games all THAT much. I really like the first one a lot, mostly for what Jimbo already outlined, but the other games have never really resonated with me for some reason. I don't exactly get why, 2 and 3 are very well-made games and they have all the ingredients to be good games, but... eh. I blame being a massive Resident Evil fan. (and yes, the two serieses are different... and one is much, much stupider. HINT: not the game with 'Hill' in the title)


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