Shinji's portrayal in Eva 2.0/2.22

[Warren Peace]

Lucretius wrote:

^ After 2.0, I think that'd only be possible if 3.0 revealed that Shinji only rescued Rei to get his S-Dat back. Given how immature this iteration of Shinji is, that probably wouldn't be OOC.

Wait, what? This? This? Rebuild's Shinji hasn't quite fallen to the pathetic level of EOE's Shinji just yet...

[Azathoth]

Warren Peace wrote:

Wait, what? This? This? Rebuild's Shinji hasn't quite fallen to the pathetic level of EOE's Shinji just yet...

EOE Shinji would have sat there and let Zeruel initiate 3I. Rebuild Shinji tries to initiate it himself, albeit not intentionally at first.

This is rapidly going to spawn another ReShinji hate thread, but I'd call that more pathetic.

_________________
Perechin sat on a drawing pin and, from this moment, his life changed abruptly. From a contemplative, quiet man Perechin turned into a downright scoundrel. He grew himself a moustache and henceforth trimmed it extremely untidily, in such a way that the one side of his moustache was always longer than the other. And so his moustache came to grow somehow askew. It became impossible to look at Perechin. What is more, he would give a repulsive wink of the eye and twitch his cheek. For a certain time Perechin confined himself to petty and reprehensible tricks: he told tales, denounced people, and cheated tram conductors by paying them his fare in the very smallest copper coin and each time two or three kopecks short.
--Daniil Kharms, presaging Nasu

[Great Genius Shinji-Sama]

ReShinji...... almost seems to resemble Gendo in a way. ALthough he isn't actively manipulating anyone or anything; he is more concerned with Rei or the people he cares about then the rest of the world and is willing to go "Screw humanity" to get them back. Does this make sense to anyone?

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[esselfortium]

Warren Peace wrote:

Wait, what? This? This? Rebuild's Shinji hasn't quite fallen to the pathetic level of EOE's Shinji just yet...

EoE Shinji had far more reasons for his behavior, and was more self-hating than selfish. I don't think there's really a comparison.

While I don't like Shinji's actions in EoE, I can understand them. I can't find anything human in Shinji's actions in 2.0.

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NGE is like Seinfeld in that ordinary situations like "I can't get a date" and "my dad doesn't like me" lead to apocalyptic catastrophe. - Lucretius

[Sun Stealer]

Azathoth wrote:

EOE Shinji would have sat there and let Zeruel initiate 3I. Rebuild Shinji tries to initiate it himself, albeit not intentionally at first.

Great Genius Shinji-Sama wrote:

ReShinji...... almost seems to resemble Gendo in a way. ALthough he isn't actively manipulating anyone or anything; he is more concerned with Rei or the people he cares about then the rest of the world and is willing to go "Screw humanity" to get them back. Does this make sense to anyone?

ReShinji is alright in my book, he shows initiative. It's ReAnno that's been pissing me off. I want to see Anno lose his immunity from editors.

_________________
"Let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You've read through this entire story so far. To recap, the story has featured Rei wondering if she has become a giant insect and considering wearing a Carmen Miranda hat, Kaji completely blowing off important duties, Shinji and Asuka blowing up a building downtown, Misato driving drunk and nearly killing Rei in a hit-and-run, Fuyutski fearing imminent death from a man dressed as a giant slice of pepperoni, Rei talking to a bagel, and Shinji and Asuka digging up an entire cemetery. And now it's character derailment. Okay."-Esselfortium
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[Azathoth]

Sun Stealer wrote:

ReShinji is alright in my book, he shows initiative. It's ReAnno that's been pissing me off.

NGEndou and ReShinji are alike and thusly scum (I guess it would be going a little much to say that extends to ReAnno as well). Shinji and ReGendou are actually also similar, although a little more subtly so - I think I've remarked on that elsewhere.

And so we're back on topic fat chance of that now that "Rebuild vs NGE" has been brought up, sorry I'll say that I want to see the inversion of ReShinji and ReGendou carried out still further such that ReGendou achieves the same end as Shinji and ReShinji achieves the same end as NGEndou.

So, miserable defeat, betrayal and death at the hands of a loved one for ReShinji; soul-crushing theoretical victory for ReGendou. Yui kills both Seeds, absorbs Shinji permanently and declares herself God-Empress of the Universe. The only sentient being she suffers to survive is Gendou, Grand Imperial High Armor-Polisher.

But seriously, I would like to see ReShinji be more and more of an asshole until everyone else (besides ReGendou) starts to call him out on it; and I would like to see ReGendou become an increasingly sympathetic character, as the trend has already gone. I feel like that's the only salvation for the series, really; anything to make me not feel like I'm supposed to be rooting for ReShinji.

_________________
Perechin sat on a drawing pin and, from this moment, his life changed abruptly. From a contemplative, quiet man Perechin turned into a downright scoundrel. He grew himself a moustache and henceforth trimmed it extremely untidily, in such a way that the one side of his moustache was always longer than the other. And so his moustache came to grow somehow askew. It became impossible to look at Perechin. What is more, he would give a repulsive wink of the eye and twitch his cheek. For a certain time Perechin confined himself to petty and reprehensible tricks: he told tales, denounced people, and cheated tram conductors by paying them his fare in the very smallest copper coin and each time two or three kopecks short.
--Daniil Kharms, presaging Nasu

[Warren Peace]

esselfortium wrote:

EoE Shinji had far more reasons for his behavior, and was more self-hating than selfish. I don't think there's really a comparison. While I don't like Shinji's actions in EoE, I can understand them. I can't find anything human in Shinji's actions in 2.0.

"Immature" was the word that was used, and I don't think there's anything more immature than sitting around crying and feeling bad about yourself when people need your help. You can take issue with Rebuild Shinji's decisions, but at least he thought he was doing right by his friend. EOE Shinji is completely self-centered, only concerned with how the situation effects him.

[Azathoth]

Warren Peace wrote:

"Immature" was the word that was used, and I don't think there's anything more immature than sitting around crying and feeling bad about yourself when people need your help. You can take issue with Rebuild Shinji's decisions, but at least he thought he was doing right by his friend. EOE Shinji is completely self-centered, only concerned with how the situation effects him.

Oh for fuck's sake. Isn't there a thread about this somewhere already?

_________________
Perechin sat on a drawing pin and, from this moment, his life changed abruptly. From a contemplative, quiet man Perechin turned into a downright scoundrel. He grew himself a moustache and henceforth trimmed it extremely untidily, in such a way that the one side of his moustache was always longer than the other. And so his moustache came to grow somehow askew. It became impossible to look at Perechin. What is more, he would give a repulsive wink of the eye and twitch his cheek. For a certain time Perechin confined himself to petty and reprehensible tricks: he told tales, denounced people, and cheated tram conductors by paying them his fare in the very smallest copper coin and each time two or three kopecks short.
--Daniil Kharms, presaging Nasu

[Lucretius]

Warren Peace wrote:

. You can take issue with Rebuild Shinji's decisions, but at least he thought he was doing right by his friend.

Key word is friend, singular. Having Shinji go all out to rescue a damsel in distress right after the Shinji-inadvertently-allows-a-classmate-to-be-maimed plot just makes him look like a worthless, hypocritical scumbag who plays favorites with his co-workers' lives. And that's not even getting into his self-congratulatory, nihilistic statement about not caring about the world's fate as long as he gets his.

To return to the topic, I hope someone in 3.0 calls Shinji on hois douchebaggery. Also, requesting that this tangent be split into the general hate thread.

_________________

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

[GasmaskAvenger]

I honestly don't get the whole "Rebuild Shinji is an asshole argument" at all.


if he was an asshole...then I would be saying he is...but he's not, IMO.

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[SaltyJoe]

A thing i find to be hilarious is how every little bit of wisdom that Kaji tries to share with NME!Shinji is totally lost on him. A selection of lines spoken by Kaji to Shinji:

Quote:

You're not the only one who’s suffering. Knowledge of suffering allows you to be more caring. Protect Katsuragi for me.

He might as well have been talking to a wall, given Shinji's actions towards the end of 2.0. And this is one of the reasons i tend to think that the apparently straight "prince-on-a-white-horse" type ending should be taken with a grain of salt. Philosophical quips thrown at Shinji by the closest thing the NME universe has to offer for a relatively well adjusted, adult male, to no effect?

Of course, feel free to call bad writing and lazy reuse of dialog.

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"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."

[GasmaskAvenger]

I don't really consider Shinji to be a so-called "prince-on-a-white-horse" at the end of 2.0/2.22


let's hope he learns a few things from his good-intended but ultimately royally fucked up "actions" in Q...or so

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[Nonoriri]

Well he plays an I'm-playing-right-into-Gendo's-hands "prince-on-a-white-horse" at the end of 2.0, which is to say that he nearly does exactly what Gendo wants inadvertently..and by being a selfish fuck potentially dooms everyone that he did care about moments ago (including this so-called important someone he inadvertently maimed) to third impact status.

Now we'd all probably hope that 3.0 beats the gravity of his dickery into his head and he gets an appropriate chewing out in some form before we move on to uncharted territory.

[SaltyJoe]

GasmaskAvenger wrote:

I don't really consider Shinji to be a so-called "prince-on-a-white-horse" at the end of 2.0/2.22

But a big part of the fandom does. Look through reviews and thoughts posted outside of the more analytic circles (like EvaGeeks) and the general consensus is that Shinji is now a GAR savior of blue haired babes, OMG AWESOME!

_________________
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."

[Killer Bee]

SaltyJoe wrote:

But a big part of the fandom does. Look through reviews and thoughts posted outside of the more analytic circles (like EvaGeeks) and the general consensus is that Shinji is now a GAR savior of blue haired babes, OMG AWESOME!

But wasn't that how it was supposed to be received? Aren't we supposed to see the ending to 2.0 and think "Shinji is a hero and he used to be a zero!" Whether Anno tends to subvert this and chew Shinji out in 3.0 is anyone's guess, but Shinji is obviously supposed to appear as a Big Damn Hero at that point, at least to the larger part of the fandom/audience. Those people are probably playing right into Anno's hands just like everyone was during the first half of NGE.

...or not and ReAnno has lost it.

[SaltyJoe]

^ Well yeah, that is the main point of contention regarding the interpretation of 2.0's finale: some (me) tend to think that Anno is simply pulling the wool before our eyes, and not just because it's subversive, but because having Shinji become a straight up superhero wouldn't make for much of an interesting story. Others say that it's what it is, and conclude Anno to be a shitty writer.

The other thing is whether they lost sympathy towards Shinji: i didn't. He's a confused teenager. My interest lies in seeing whether he will grow up for real by the end of Q/Final, and i don't need to think he's an all around swell guy to remain interested in that. He is somewhat different from NGE Shinji, that's for sure.

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"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."

[AuraTwilight]

I'm just submitting that I support the notion of ReShinji being a total asshole of even further proportions to the point where he beats the shit out of Gendo...and then we learn ReGendo is like the nicest person in the entire world and he spends all his free time helping orphans and puppies.

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Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa

[Lucretius]

Speaking of wasted advice from Kaji, I noticed several lines at the aquarium field trip that could've been used to great effect had Shinji experienced any actual growth in the final act:

Kaji wrote:

Being a survivor leaves you with a lot of baggage. 　　　　　 You have to accept their loss and pick up where they left off.

God damn it, Anno.

EDIT: I know the manga isn't popular around these here parts, but I think a scene to this effect would've vastly improved the movie:

Spoiler:

_________________

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

[Azathoth]

AuraTwilight wrote:

I'm just submitting that I support the notion of ReShinji being a total asshole of even further proportions to the point where he beats the shit out of Gendo...and then we learn ReGendo is like the nicest person in the entire world and he spends all his free time helping orphans and puppies.

It's fairly obvious by now the ReGendou is a much nicer person than the original. Selfish? By the looks of it, yeah. Cold? Absolutely. Incapable of relating to others? It's tempting to say so...and yet, not quite. Someone with more time and a better eye than me could do scene-by-scene comparisons, I'm sure, but there's more than one occasion on which he does something that NGEndou never would.

The most obvious is after ReShinji pitches his I-just-killed-my-buddy-what-was-her-name-again tantrum. Where Shinji raged at the cruelty of NGEndou's actions for a while, then got knocked out, and then when to tell his dad he was quitting, he was answered with a casual "Fine, leave," mirroring the one in episode 1, and then a taunting, "Are you running away again?" It's one of the few occasions where NGEndou becomes entirely unsympathetic (as opposed to largely) and it's a genuinely effective moment in making us feel for Shinji - the quiet and beaten way in which he fails to react to his father's cruel words juxtaposed with his earlier furious reaction. ReShinji does the same thing (albeit with the utterly cringeworthy "Maybe you need to lose someone..." line thrown in, something that delineates the difference between Shinji and ReShinji as much as anything else) and then follows it up with the chat in his dad's office, which proceeds the same way, complete with the "Are you running away?"

And yet the line is different. Instead of NGEndou's not-disappointed-sounding-at-all "You disappoint me. We won't meet again," we get an extremely unusual moment of Gendou...trying to act like a father...a very bad but kind of well-meaning father...?

ReGendou wrote:

GENDOU: I see. If that's the case, then leave. GENDOU: Are you running away again? GENDOU: You want to take responsibility for all the victims. And you don't want to take what other people give you. Shinji...grow up.

I bring it up because I can't think of another example in all of Eva history. Gendou giving Shinji advice? Good advice? ReShinji responds with, "I can't [grow up] if I don't understand adults." It's the sort of thing Shinji might actually say, which is good, if still rather frustrating.

In addition: I may be overanalyzing, but I feel like Gendou's question is intended to be rhetorical in NGE and genuinely curious in Rebuild.

There are other instances where ReGendou shows himself to be somewhat less of an ass than the original, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head involves the fucking cooking subplot, and I feel that if I have to think about the fucking cooking subplot even one more time I'll kill myself.

_________________
Perechin sat on a drawing pin and, from this moment, his life changed abruptly. From a contemplative, quiet man Perechin turned into a downright scoundrel. He grew himself a moustache and henceforth trimmed it extremely untidily, in such a way that the one side of his moustache was always longer than the other. And so his moustache came to grow somehow askew. It became impossible to look at Perechin. What is more, he would give a repulsive wink of the eye and twitch his cheek. For a certain time Perechin confined himself to petty and reprehensible tricks: he told tales, denounced people, and cheated tram conductors by paying them his fare in the very smallest copper coin and each time two or three kopecks short.
--Daniil Kharms, presaging Nasu

[esselfortium]

I'm not so sure that makes such a difference, Azathoth. While his statement is essentially "you can't save everyone," which in principle is true and good advice, it couldn't be much less appropriate for the situation if it tried. To me it seems about as cold and uncaring as anything else he could have said, given that he's effectively telling Shinji that it's wrong and immature to be upset about his and his father's involvement in the brutal maiming of one of his classmates a few minutes prior. Regardless of possible intent, grossly unsympathetic advice like that doesn't really make me see this Gendo in any more of a positive light.

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NGE is like Seinfeld in that ordinary situations like "I can't get a date" and "my dad doesn't like me" lead to apocalyptic catastrophe. - Lucretius