Rei's soul(s)

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Postby Azathoth » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:56 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:There has been a suggestion made, that I think holds some good narrative appeal.


I always preferred the theory that the donor was Misato herself, if only because it makes a good explanation for why Dr. K felt the need to drag her straight to fucking Antarctica (just so he could keep an eye on her? really?)

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:The math doesn't work right for her to have aged normally. Rei 1 was killed in 2010; the main series takes place in 2015. She can't be more than 10 years old. Rei 1 was Gendo's ward; Rei 2 was raised in Terminal Dogma, according to Ritsuko.


We don't know when the Rei clones were produced, but the fact that they're all the same age as Rei II at the time of their destruction suggests that they were all created at the same time (and the fact that Rei I first appears at age four or five suggests that that's the age all of them started at, for whatever reason). Rei II could have been sitting in the Reiquarium without a soul for four years, aging in a relatively normal manner, before they fished her out and started expecting her to live like a human.
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Postby thewayneiac » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:42 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I always preferred the theory that the donor was Misato herself, if only because it makes a good explanation for why Dr. K felt the need to drag her straight to fucking Antarctica (just so he could keep an eye on her? really?)


Wow! Someone finally agrees with me on that! You may be the first one. You don't just drag a child along on a top secret and extremely dangerous mission without a compelling reason.

We don't know when the Rei clones were produced, but the fact that they're all the same age as Rei II at the time of their destruction suggests that they were all created at the same time (and the fact that Rei I first appears at age four or five suggests that that's the age all of them started at, for whatever reason). Rei II could have been sitting in the Reiquarium without a soul for four years, aging in a relatively normal manner, before they fished her out and started expecting her to live like a human.


I'm not certain, but it's possible you missed my point. If they were all created at the same time and are all the same age, and Rei 1 died at age 4 or 5 and the main series takes place 5 years later, then she can't be more than 10 years old.
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Postby Azathoth » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:06 pm

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:Wow! Someone finally agrees with me on that! You may be the first one. You don't just drag a child along on a top secret and extremely dangerous mission without a compelling reason.


The whole "Dr. K is the donor" thing never really worked for me on a symbolic level the way donor-Misato does: Rei and Kaworu both become mirrors of the various failed mother-figures in Shinji's life - one is distant and confusing to him, culminating in her apparent death and subsequent even greater distance and confusion; the other is unusually approachable and friendly to him but their relationship develops into something uncomfortably sexualized and eventually ends in a supposed-to-be-inspiring monologue that mostly just confuses Shinji, before a messy death that triggers a breakdown and leaves Shinji (in one case literally) bloody-handed.

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:I'm not certain, but it's possible you missed my point. If they were all created at the same time and are all the same age, and Rei 1 died at age 4 or 5 and the main series takes place 5 years later, then she can't be more than 10 years old.


Hmm. Years would help me out here. I was always under the impression that Yui's disintegration, Rei I's creation, and Naoko's murder-suicide took place within a fairly tight time-frame, and the series starts closer to 10 years later. In this framework, the Rei bodies would start out looking like four-year-olds and age naturally afterwards.
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Postby thewayneiac » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:21 pm

According to Ep. 21:

Yui went into Unit-01 in 2004, Ritsuko witnessed Naoko making out with Gendo in 2008, a seemingly 4-5 year old Rei was introduced and died in 2010.
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Postby Shinji » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:07 pm

Wait, Misato the donor? Call me close minded but I find that to be a stretch even for evangelion standards. Symbolically speaking, whatever works for you but I still don't get it. I see no similarities whatsoever between them.

I find it easier to assume that if Dr. K was the donor, we at least are given the easy assumption that, since we never really saw him clearly (except for like, his hand and his jaw) it could be feasible that when he was 14 he bore a resemblance to Kaworu.

Now that begs the question, if Kaworu is a possible "descendent" of Dr. K or Misato, wouldn't it provoke an intense reaction from Misato? I know she probly doesn't remember specifically what he looked like as a teenager, but you'd think some resemblance would make her... say something.

As for why Misato was taken as a... "teen," to Antarctica with her father. I think that's simply a plot device to give us a closer look into Second Impact, and how it happened. It's probably mostly meant to further develop Misato's feelings and personality, i.e. her relationship with Kaji. There needn't be an actual understandable reason to take a little kid to the harshest environment on earth just to see a giant white guy with a lance in him explode.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:40 pm

I still say Gendo is totally the donor. Canon be damned.
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Postby Shinji » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:07 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:I still say Gendo is totally the donor. Canon be damned.


Of Kaworu? That'd be interesting. I can't really say that Kaworu looks like Shinji or like Gendo but he does look a lot like Rei imo. But you know, that could be from a number of reasons. It's so ambiguous!!!!
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Postby NemZ » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:02 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I always preferred the theory that the donor was Misato herself, if only because it makes a good explanation for why Dr. K felt the need to drag her straight to fucking Antarctica (just so he could keep an eye on her? really?)


Agreed. Take your daughter to work day just doesn't cut it as an excuse when you're on a secret expedition trying to reenact "At the Mountains of Madness".
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:07 pm

View Original PostShinji wrote:Of Kaworu? That'd be interesting. I can't really say that Kaworu looks like Shinji or like Gendo but he does look a lot like Rei imo. But you know, that could be from a number of reasons. It's so ambiguous!!!!


Totally. Then Kaworu and Rei become PERFECTLY symmetrical, and they both represent perfect idealized Freudian versions of his parents, providing for him in ways his real parents are unable/unwilling to do so.

And he wants to fuck both of them.
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Postby Shinji » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:11 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:
And he wants to fuck both of them.


I know hahaha, at least he did his "30 second hand trick" to Asuka instead of Rei, since she's more or less the young hot smokin body of his mom with blue hair. I think I prefer the scenario where she's his cousin, at least that's legal in most countries haha.
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Postby Allemann » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:49 am

The donor could be Keel for all we know. Gendo has a plaything, now Keel has his.

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Postby Azathoth » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:49 am

View Original PostAllemann wrote:The donor could be Keel for all we know. Gendo has a plaything, now Keel has his.


Unlike the donor (supposedly), Keel wasn't in Antarctica at the time of the contact experiment.
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Postby Allemann » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:57 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Unlike the donor (supposedly), Keel wasn't in Antarctica at the time of the contact experiment.


Only his DNA sample needs to be present.

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Postby Ornette » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:01 pm

And Gendo didn't have his plaything for another several years.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:56 pm

View Original PostAllemann wrote:now Keel has his.
If I recall the original heresy correctly, Akira Katsuragi was supposed to be Keel's plaything :devil:
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Postby Shinji » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:16 pm

I hate to say it, but Kaworu probably doesn't have a donor of any importance to the story line. For all we know Kaworu could not even be a clone and just be some guy that (along with being fan-appeasingly homo erotic) was in his teens (or not even, seeing as they can genetically alter age) and got kidnapped by SEELE, who then removed his soul and put Adam's soul into him. I mean, it's not impossible.

But more likely it was the same scenario except they just cloned him in the manner Rei was cloned and put Adam's soul in the clone. (This could also explain the dummy systems used on the MP series, but that's a whole nother shit storm unto itself)

And who's to say that a clone doesn't initially have a soul? Except for that one episode about the soulless Rei things... nevermind
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Postby Azathoth » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:34 pm

View Original PostShinji wrote:I hate to say it, but Kaworu probably doesn't have a donor of any importance to the story line. For all we know Kaworu could not even be a clone and just be some guy that (along with being fan-appeasingly homo erotic) was in his teens (or not even, seeing as they can genetically alter age) and got kidnapped by SEELE, who then removed his soul and put Adam's soul into him. I mean, it's not impossible.


It's very, very strongly suggested that Kaworu was a byproduct of the human DNA that fused with Adam immediately prior to Second Impact.
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Postby Shinji » Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:54 pm

Well jeez, then it could be anyone from Antarctica! Maybe he's a clone of Dr Katsuragi mixed with a penguin...

Well maybe it could've been more than one person's DNA? But then you'd think they'd be some weird giant mutated baby thing
Last edited by Shinji on Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Ornette » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:18 pm

This thread is about Rei.

For Kaworu, there's plenty to go over the material, here's some:

Old ANF thread about Kaworu's origins
Old thread about Kaworu being a clone
Reichu's incomplete Kaworu-Katsuragi connection

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:45 am

View Original PostShinji wrote:Rei, unlike Kaworu, has no memories of being Lilith or any memories that her "original," for lack of a better word, Yui Ikari had.
She may have sort of repressed memories. Rei clearly recognizes that she's different and has some kind of connection to something "higher" (FLOABW), and her maternal instincts (ala Yui) do manifest throughout the series.
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